GregK Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I still love it. The only thing overrated about it is people saying it's overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Another thing that's interesting (at least to me...) is how little "rock" there is on this alleged cornerstone of "jazz-rock". Yes you have electric pianos and bass, and sure McLaughlin is there on electric guitar (although not sounding tonally anything like a rock guitarist), and yes, there are bass vamps (but you got that in A Love Supreme, a.o. too, right), and the drums play off of and with that, but they don't play like rock drummers with a rock feel, and oh by the way, the keyboards sound more like a free jazz group than anything else and textural bass clarinet on a rock record, say what? and neither Wayne nor Miles play anything particularly different than they were playing live on this and/or the rest of the live book, so... If you want to hear a Miles "jazz-rock" album, check out the first side of Jack Johnson, or many parts of Live-Evil. Bitches Brew came along at a time when it could be labeled "jazz-rock" just because it had bass vamps and electric instruments. But a year or two (or less) either way and the same music would befuddle people like On The Corner did in its time. The again, if that Lost Quintet tree ever gets a legitimate release, it'll all make perfect sense, or could. Corea, Holland, & DeJohnette were some just plain rowdy motherfuckers, and Wayne appeared like it like that just fine. And Miles, Miles always led his bands when he played, so any thought that they fellas were getting away from him is...no, not right. So how did this get to be so popular in its time? Well, it didn;t get really popular, it didn;t get played on Bandstand and Wayne didn;t give interviews to Gloria Stavers, and there weren't no bubble gum cards, so...howw..did..well...what there was was a scene in every most towns where smart youg folks were looking for things smarter and more fun than they were and you know, music alwasy leads the way there somewheres) so it got heard, and what it really was didn't register nearly as much as what if felt like it was, a nice high to get a nice groove on and vice-versa as well, for you dancing and listenung pleasure and tripping service, and next thing you know, there was grounds swelling for a hype, and this time the hype was hype of of a new type, so that got some wipe off the old hype that spilled onto the new, and before you know it, it's like hey - we get high to this shit and it's GOOOD and somebody else said we get high to THIS shit and it's gooood too, so hell, if it's all good and we all good and high, then this newwer shit is newer and gooder and higer than anyelse thing around and DANG-UH, it ain't go no singing, no voices no words, but I can still hear songs in the music and beats in the songs, so yeah yeah YEAH this is MINE. A few people inevery town said that, and before too much longer everybody knew and everybody knew who didn't knew, and that's how it got new, but just enough of knew to get the know out in the pocket. Damn those were magical times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Another thing that's interesting (at least to me...) is how little "rock" there is on this alleged cornerstone of "jazz-rock". Yes you have electric pianos and bass, and sure McLaughlin is there on electric guitar (although not sounding tonally anything like a rock guitarist), As I listened to BB tonight, I thought: "McLaughlin and Freddie Green aren't that far apart...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 And then when Benny Maupin went through all those changes ad spent six months to write six years of Elton John's lyrics for him, I mean, wow, it's all right hear! I never lissen aah my momma that good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I do enjoy the unedited versions for "study" purposes, that's all after-the-fact information as it pertains to history, although not to the actual creation. An ironic situation, that is. I generally agree with this. There are lots of ways to make a good record, and recording stuff in pieces and editing them together is one way. Hope this is not too far off topic, but I was never crazy about "Shhh/Peaceful" from In a Silent Way - until I heard the version from disc two of the Silent Way box set. This edit reflected Miles' original conception of the piece, which was originally called "Mornin' Fast Train From Memphis to Harlem." The originally issued "Shhh/Peaceful" was put together from the improvised parts, but "Mornin' Fast Train" had not one, but two composed melodies - one for the pianos and guitar, and one for the horns. To me, it works much better as a coherent piece of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 And then when Benny Maupin went through all those changes ad spent six months to write six years of Elton John's lyrics for him, I mean, wow, it's all right hear! I never lissen aah my momma that good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hope this is not too far off topic, but I was never crazy about "Shhh/Peaceful" from In a Silent Way - until I heard the version from disc two of the Silent Way box set. This edit reflected Miles' original conception of the piece, which was originally called "Mornin' Fast Train From Memphis to Harlem." The originally issued "Shhh/Peaceful" was put together from the improvised parts, but "Mornin' Fast Train" had not one, but two composed melodies - one for the pianos and guitar, and one for the horns. To me, it works much better as a coherent piece of music. THE IASW Box is by far the most revelatory of the boxes for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I know I've said this elsewhere here, but I'll say it again - I love what Bennie Maupin does on bass clarinet here, IMHO it's the glue that holds BB together and makes it different than anything else. I also think Teo should get some kinda award for creative production realizing an artist's vision with minimal direction from the ever-cryptic Miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I know I've said this elsewhere here, but I'll say it again - I love what Bennie Maupin does on bass clarinet here, IMHO it's the glue that holds BB together and makes it different than anything else. If it's not too obvious to point out, I love that fact that Maupin's bass clarinet is used as part of the rhythm sections, not as a "horn." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I too think Maupin is critical to the success of the BB tracks. I'm instantly recalling he plays to similar great effect on the "Jack Johnson"-era tune "Duran". He's also on several takes of "Willie Nelson" (though I'm not recalling his contributions there as specifically). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Another thing that's interesting (at least to me...) is how little "rock" there is on this alleged cornerstone of "jazz-rock". Yes you have electric pianos and bass, and sure McLaughlin is there on electric guitar (although not sounding tonally anything like a rock guitarist), and yes, there are bass vamps (but you got that in A Love Supreme, a.o. too, right), and the drums play off of and with that, but they don't play like rock drummers with a rock feel, and oh by the way, the keyboards sound more like a free jazz group than anything else and textural bass clarinet on a rock record, say what? and neither Wayne nor Miles play anything particularly different than they were playing live on this and/or the rest of the live book, so... I'm kind of awed, at the turn of the century (or maybe it's too far past at this point), how easily formulae factor into genre expectation. In BB's case, it might just be lack of conventional swing + electric instruments = jazz rock, since--with some thought, as you conveyed above--I've tried to dissect precisely what makes the lost quintet "jazz" v. BB's jazz rock and there's nothing more than a textural/hierarchical difference really separating the two, content-wise. I think it's kind of telling how the often unmetered, often irregular pulse of free jazz, replete with totally denaturing, fuzzed-out acoustic sounds, was ultimately more conveniently integrated into an overarching definition of "Jazz" than were free-sounding backbeats and distorted electric instrumentation. -->(Obviously there are dozens of ways to qualify that statement, but I offer the Crouchian jazz rock/fusion opprobrium v. complete canonization of the free jazz-inflected 2nd quintet as evidence. If it had never gotten farther than the Lost Quintet music in haute couture--v. jeans and daishikis, which surely hipped "the man" to the idea that "some shit is up"--the jazz rock label might have been a non-starter. Also, compare varying opinions on Mary Halvorson and, say, [the band] Kayo Dot--each entity equally rock-inflected in different ways, with widely varying degrees of compositional/improvisational balances between albums/pieces, and each occupying completely different genre strata. Like science, though, it's hard to prove anything, easy to disprove everything.) I may just be particularly sensitive to this subject, considering I'm a) an electric guitarist and b) occupy a large proportion of my professional endeavors in a guitar/piano duet. I got slapped in the face with ludicrousness recently when I realized (arranging the music for quintet) that adding swung-time drums to the arrangements--changing absolutely nothing else--would lead a large proportion of the audience to listen to it as "jazz." Such are the times/the era in which we live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 THE IASW Box is by far the most revelatory of the boxes for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I always liked Bitches Brew, never found it difficult. I like the earlier, acoustic Miles too. I don't really understand the controversy. On The Corner is the album I could not get into for a while. Now I understand better what is going on, but it is still not one of my favorites. But Bitches Brew always struck me as an enjoyable, relatively easy listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I just love the tone colours Maupin adds to BB. In fact, one I got the hang of it, its the colours - the shimmering keyboards contrasted with the subterranean basses and bass clarinet and then the saxes and trumpet in between - that really attract me. 'On the Corner' was a complete mystery to me until I took a chance on an inexpensive download of the box set - loved that. Agree about BB not really being a rock record at all (and JJ being the real rock record, a reason why that one took even longer to take). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.