2011 MLB Season

[ghost of miles]

With Martin's status flirting with the DL again, I sure wish we'd call up Jesus Montero and give him a shot at some big-league time.

Edited June 15, 2011 by ghost of miles

[Quincy]

More than a few people out there in baseball land are convinced that Jeter's injury is a put on so he can come back and attack the 3,000 hit plateau while the Yankees are at home. That seems a little far fetched, but not far enough that I can't buy into it.

My favorite 3000 hit story was George Brett's. On the final day of a road trip vs. the Angels he goes 4 for 4, the 4th being 3000.

[JSngry]

The team seems mentally off right now, that sparkle's no there. Wonder if players are having family matters or such.

I just hope Wash (or somebody) wakes everybody up, and soon. The Rangers have a collection of some of the most infectious smiles in baseball. Sure would be nice to see lots more of them. Right now it's like a sleeping giant on Saturday morning, trying to get in a few more winks.

WAKE UP

[Dave James]

With Martin's status flirting with the DL again, I sure wish we'd call up Jesus Montero and give him a shot at some big-league time.

I was thinking the same thing. Got to pondering it when I wondered what the Yanks would do if Cervelli was injured. i suppose you go with Posada, but I'd really like to see them give the kid get a shot.

[PHILLYQ]

More than a few people out there in baseball land are convinced that Jeter's injury is a put on so he can come back and attack the 3,000 hit plateau while the Yankees are at home. That seems a little far fetched, but not far enough that I can't buy into it.

My favorite 3000 hit story was George Brett's. On the final day of a road trip vs. the Angels he goes 4 for 4, the 4th being 3000.

A sad one, but how about Roberto Clemente? Gets his 3000th hit on the last day of the season and dies in the offseason in a plane crash delivering supplies to earthquake-ravaged Nicaragua.

[Matthew]

More than a few people out there in baseball land are convinced that Jeter's injury is a put on so he can come back and attack the 3,000 hit plateau while the Yankees are at home. That seems a little far fetched, but not far enough that I can't buy into it.

My favorite 3000 hit story was George Brett's. On the final day of a road trip vs. the Angels he goes 4 for 4, the 4th being 3000.

A sad one, but how about Roberto Clemente? Gets his 3000th hit on the last day of the season and dies in the offseason in a plane crash delivering supplies to earthquake-ravaged Nicaragua.

And he got the hit in front of a "packed house" of 13,117

By Tyler Kepner, New York Times

When Derek Jeter reaches 3,000 career hits, he will achieve more than a milestone. At that moment, Jeter will match the career hit total of Roberto Clemente, the Hall of Famer who stands forever as the greeter to the club.

Clemente collected exactly 3,000 hits before dying on Dec. 31, 1972, in a plane crash off the coast of Puerto Rico while delivering relief supplies to earthquake victims in Nicaragua. His final at-bat in the regular season came that Sept. 30, against the Mets at Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh.

The night before, Clemente had reached base against Tom Seaver with a chopper that bounced off an infielder's glove. The scoreboard flashed hit, but the official scorer ruled it an error, keeping Clemente on the verge of history. Yet the Pittsburgh fans were largely oblivious.

The next day was an overcast Saturday, with televised college football perhaps a more appealing entertainment option. Just 13,117 fans went to the ballpark, and even the Mets' starter was unaware of what could happen.

``I was a 22-year-old rookie that had absolutely no clue this baseball icon was sitting on 2,999 when I went out to pitch that game," Jon Matlack said. ``None."

The Rest Of The Story

Edited June 15, 2011 by Matthew

[ghost of miles]

By Tyler Kepner, New York Times

When Derek Jeter reaches 3,000 career hits, he will achieve more than a milestone. At that moment, Jeter will match the career hit total of Roberto Clemente, the Hall of Famer who stands forever as the greeter to the club.

Beautiful way of putting it.

[JSngry]

Kinda of sappy & morose, I think. Clemente would easily have put on a couple hundred hits more if he had lived, could have changed the dynamic of the way the Pirate franchise evolved in the '70s, could have done a lot more good things for baseball and humanity in general, and I'm supposed to get a tear in my eye because he's now the phantasmagorical "greeter" to some statistical club? Like the harmless smiling old people you see at Wal-Mart, or the tuxedoed servants you see at "social affairs"?

Emo baseball. Yuck.

[Neal Pomea]

Fun at the game last night! Got to see Pujols hit a rocket home run, but the Nationals later rallied with 6 in the seventh inning to win 8-6 with Clippard pitching the 8th and Storen the 9th. An energized crowd for a team in the cellar. 4 wins in a row is news for the Nationals.

[Dan Gould]

Don't remotely Jim's reaction. He's the greeter because he was fated to stop exactly at 3000 hits. That's all. Where you get sappy and morose is beyond me.

I think its good that the article points out that it was only in death that he was embraced by the city.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Dan Gould

[JSngry]

The word "greeter" is all "Rock and Roll Heaven" and stuff. Like Clemente will be standing there to shake your hand or something, like there really is a "club".

Clemente is dead, and there is no club, except in the overripe imagination of fans.

Now, if you want to use the word "club" non-literally, as a term to group people of a certain statistical subset, fine. I do that myself all the time. But when you introduce the notion of having a "greeter", that makes it something else, something more than statistical. That's like all Field Of Dreams and shit, which, ok, yeah, I was touched by that movie and all that, but c'mon...emo stuff like that is good for the moment (sometimes), but then let it go and get back to reality, please. There is no cornfield, and the diet Pepsi commercial is fake.

Besides, "greeters" are servants, unless they are hosts. Is it The Roberto Clemente 3000 Hit Club now? Smilin' Bob welcome you in and instructs the staff to take care of you, take your coat, fix you a drink?

3000 hits is a damn significant accomplishment, and it puts you in rare company. But there ain't no club and there ain't no greeter, multi-faceted attempts to manipulate consumer emotions notwithstanding.

Edited June 15, 2011 by JSngry

[JSngry]

I think its good that the article points out that it was only in death that he was embraced by the city.

Yeah, I distinctly remember reading various articles from the 60s that portrayed him as "moody", "sullen", things like that. There's a reason besides "regional pride" why he's a hero and a role model to so many Latino players. I see the Ubaldo Jimenez commercial running on MLB TV now, the one where he's looking for a gift-shop license plate with "Ubaldo" on it, sure that it's got to be there somewhere, maybe it's in the back, tell the bus to hold up a minute, and I remember the baseball cards of "Bob" Clemente that I had as a kid, and how it came out later that Clemente himself insisted that he be called "Roberto" by god, because that was his name, stop trying to make me a "Bob", I'm not a "Bob", and I think to myself, "what a wonderful world!"

Not really. But if the notion of him being a "greeter" in his "baseball afterlife" appealed to me, maybe I would.

Edited June 15, 2011 by JSngry

[Dan Gould]

The word "greeter" is all "Rock and Roll Heaven" and stuff. Like Clemente will be standing there to shake your hand or something, like there really is a "club".

Clemente is dead, and there is no club, except in the overripe imagination of fans.

Now, if you want to use the word "club" non-literally, as a term to group people of a certain statistical subset, fine. I do that myself all the time. But when you introduce the notion of having a "greeter", that makes it something else, something more than statistical. That's like all Field Of Dreams and shit, which, ok, yeah, I was touched by that movie and all that, but c'mon...emo stuff like that is good for the moment (sometimes), but then let it go and get back to reality, please. There is no cornfield, and the diet Pepsi commercial is fake.

Besides, "greeters" are servants, unless they are hosts. Is it The Roberto Clemente 3000 Hit Club now? Smilin' Bob welcome you in and instructs the staff to take care of you, take your coat, fix you a drink?

3000 hits is a damn significant accomplishment, and it puts you in rare company. But there ain't no club and there ain't no greeter, multi-faceted attempts to manipulate consumer emotions notwithstanding.

I think you're being mystifingly oversenstive about the term, as if it offends his memory because he's somehow being referred to as the house negro welcoming the members of the 3000 Hit Club on their way over and above his accomplishment.

And why referring him as such is an attempt to manipulate emotions is beyond me. His premature death is a fact, no manipulation of emotions necessary.

And yes, 3000 Hit Club has been a recognized group for a long time. Until Palmiero it signified a stamped ticket marked "Cooperstown".

[Matthew]

I think its good that the article points out that it was only in death that he was embraced by the city.

Yeah, I distinctly remember reading various articles from the 60s that portrayed him as "moody", "sullen", things like that. There's a reason besides "regional pride" why he's a hero and a role model to so many Latino players. I see the Ubaldo Jimenez commercial running on MLB TV now, the one where he's looking for a gift-shop license plate with "Ubaldo" on it, sure that it's got to be there somewhere, maybe it's in the back, tell the bus to hold up a minute, and I remember the baseball cards of "Bob" Clemente that I had as a kid, and how it came out later that Clemente himself insisted that he be called "Roberto" by god, because that was his name, stop trying to make me a "Bob", I'm not a "Bob", and I think to myself, "what a wonderful world!"

Not really. But if the notion of him being a "greeter" in his "baseball afterlife" appealed to me, maybe I would.

Interesting in the Youtube video, Bob Prince calls Clemente "Bobby."

[JSngry]

And why referring him as such is an attempt to manipulate emotions is beyond me.

Marketing is based on the manipulation of emotions, and not just in baseball. Sentimentality is the most easily manipulated type of emotion. A lot of times the manipulation is bought into and furthered without even realizing it. The marketeers thank us when we do that, thank us with a laugh, a smile, and a receipt.

I suspect we have differing opinions on the degree and type and healthiness of marketing found around us today, not just in baseball, so I'll not go any further than this in response.

But to answer your question, that's why.

[JSngry]

I think its good that the article points out that it was only in death that he was embraced by the city.

Yeah, I distinctly remember reading various articles from the 60s that portrayed him as "moody", "sullen", things like that. There's a reason besides "regional pride" why he's a hero and a role model to so many Latino players. I see the Ubaldo Jimenez commercial running on MLB TV now, the one where he's looking for a gift-shop license plate with "Ubaldo" on it, sure that it's got to be there somewhere, maybe it's in the back, tell the bus to hold up a minute, and I remember the baseball cards of "Bob" Clemente that I had as a kid, and how it came out later that Clemente himself insisted that he be called "Roberto" by god, because that was his name, stop trying to make me a "Bob", I'm not a "Bob", and I think to myself, "what a wonderful world!"

Not really. But if the notion of him being a "greeter" in his "baseball afterlife" appealed to me, maybe I would.

Interesting in the Youtube video, Bob Prince calls Clemente "Bobby."

IIRC, Prince's refusal to stop that was a sore point with Clemente. But it was Bob Prince, so what do you do?

The full story of Latin-American players and the various ways of accommodating US culture has yet to be told...

Look on YouTube for Orlando Cepeda and see the videos of him playing congas w/Tito Rodriguez!

[Dan Gould]

So the baseball columnist of the New York Times is a "marketer"? Or is that the Times as a whole?

[JSngry]

Of course.

All "major media" is part of the marketing machine, sports media even more so.

That's not intrinsically/necessarily "bad" or anything, but commercial media by definition must feed consumerism in order to survive.

And for the record, I have no problem "celebrating" either Jeter or Clemente, two great athletes with great accomplishments to their credit. I do, however, find the image of a "club" with Clemente as "greeter" to be cheaply sentimental, however, and feel that both men can and should be honored without the "violins".

[Quincy]

More than a few people out there in baseball land are convinced that Jeter's injury is a put on so he can come back and attack the 3,000 hit plateau while the Yankees are at home. That seems a little far fetched, but not far enough that I can't buy into it.

My favorite 3000 hit story was George Brett's. On the final day of a road trip vs. the Angels he goes 4 for 4, the 4th being 3000.

A sad one, but how about Roberto Clemente? Gets his 3000th hit on the last day of the season and dies in the offseason in a plane crash delivering supplies to earthquake-ravaged Nicaragua.

I remember Kaline just missed a HR for his 3000th and ended up with a double. To add to what a difference a foot or 2 makes he retired a week & change later with 399 HRs. I think at the time he would have been the first AL player to have 3000/400. I believe Yaz became the 1st AL player to do so. The NL had Mays & Aaron who were able to clear that HR total by just a wee bit more.

I mostly like the Brett story in the context of the upcoming Jeter one. Brett easily could have been benched for that game but perhaps they didn't figure on him getting 4 hits. Or maybe just maybe the game itself was more important? No, the Royals were lousy and were a lock for 5th place. Surely after 3 hits they could have easily sat him down for the upcoming ( & final) Royal homestand? Nope, send him up to the plate again, and if he gets it he gets it. He got it. And then got picked off 1st.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Quincy

[BERIGAN]

Fay Vincent always seemed...creepy, IMO...this isn't a creepy statement, just...stoopid...

To Vincent, Cuban's passion for the Mavericks and financial backing aren't enough to balance his outspoken demeanor.

"The rules are the rules. I think this enormous criticism -- the screaming about officials, the kinds of things that got him fined by David -- those are not actions of a sensible, responsible owner," Vincent said. "I mean winning is not everything, and I'm afraid for some of these owners they get so carried away with winning they believe that's the objective."

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6664482

[JSngry]

Fay Vincent always seemed...creepy, IMO...this isn't a creepy statement, just...stoopid...

To Vincent, Cuban's passion for the Mavericks and financial backing aren't enough to balance his outspoken demeanor.

"The rules are the rules. I think this enormous criticism -- the screaming about officials, the kinds of things that got him fined by David -- those are not actions of a sensible, responsible owner," Vincent said. "I mean winning is not everything, and I'm afraid for some of these owners they get so carried away with winning they believe that's the objective."

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=6664482

"End result" and "objective" are subtly different things, maybe...??? Maybe has more to do with "process" than "goal"?

I will tell you this, though - Cuban's open arrogance did create an atmosphere of whiny "entitlement" in some of his teams that had them looking for excuses instead of heart. You want to hope that he's matured, but I'm still wary of him...

[PHILLYQ]

Fay Vincent always seemed...creepy, IMO...this isn't a creepy statement, just...stoopid...

To Vincent, Cuban's passion for the Mavericks and financial backing aren't enough to balance his outspoken demeanor.

"The rules are the rules. I think this enormous criticism -- the screaming about officials, the kinds of things that got him fined by David -- those are not actions of a sensible, responsible owner," Vincent said. "I mean winning is not everything, and I'm afraid for some of these owners they get so carried away with winning they believe that's the objective."

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6664482

I'm with Fay Vincent on this one. We see that kind of behavior all the time, in Little League where parents are chewing out umps(and worse), the excesses of Steinbrenner(and I'm a Yankee fan), it cheapens and coarsens the sport and destroys sportsmanship. Respect is necessary.

[Tim McG]

Fay Vincent always seemed...creepy, IMO...this isn't a creepy statement, just...stoopid...

To Vincent, Cuban's passion for the Mavericks and financial backing aren't enough to balance his outspoken demeanor.

"The rules are the rules. I think this enormous criticism -- the screaming about officials, the kinds of things that got him fined by David -- those are not actions of a sensible, responsible owner," Vincent said. "I mean winning is not everything, and I'm afraid for some of these owners they get so carried away with winning they believe that's the objective."

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6664482

I'm with Fay Vincent on this one. We see that kind of behavior all the time, in Little League where parents are chewing out umps(and worse), the excesses of Steinbrenner(and I'm a Yankee fan), it cheapens and coarsens the sport and destroys sportsmanship. Respect is necessary.

I agree.

However, Mark Cuban is the poster child for how to be an asshole. How do you change that?

Edited June 16, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[Neal Pomea]

Cards gotta be wondering wtf. 8-0 Nationals in the 7th inning.

Would love to see a series win, then some momentum going into our weekend series with Baltimore.

[JSngry]

A bullshit strike zone gives the Yankees Strike 4 and of course the get 2 runs as a result, but that's no excuse. The Rangers had ample opportunities to get runner in and failed, Derek Holland had multiple chances to hold a lead and didn't. You gotta carpe diem, mf-ers.

Mark Lowe in, I'm out. This team needs to toughen up, and in a hurry.