Ben Webster & Joe Zawinul - Soulmates

[mikeweil]

I have two questions:

1 - does anybody have an explanation for the phony reverb on the saxophone quartet tracks, which is totally untypical for Riverside? Were the tapes doctored with after Riverside was sold - was this one of the sessions still unissued at the time?

2 - This is more a rhetorical question: Why in all the world didn't they include the three bonus tracks that Keepnews had added on the occasion of the Milestone twofer LP reissue, when they issued the OJC CD?

Edited June 8, 2011 by mikeweil

[Ted O'Reilly]

Why in all the world didn' they include the three bonus tracks that Keepnews had added on the occasion of the Milestone twofer LP reissue, when they issued the OJC CD?

"It's Chinatown, Jake..."

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't know. Though a huge Ben fan, I never really connected with this date and haven't listened to it in over 30 years.

[Dan Gould]

I feel exactly the same as Chuck, except that I think I sold the disc years ago after failing to ever connect with it.

[Free For All]

I agree about the weird reverb, but I'll go for anything w/Thad on it.

[paul secor]

Don't like the reverb, but there's enough there to keep me interested and listen to it now and again.

[mikeweil]

... but I'll go for anything w/Thad on it.

That was my initial motivation for getting this disc - but Ben's playing is very interesting, and the tune he wrote is nice, and the way he connects to the tunes written by the other players on the date. Ben with Thad Jones and Zawinul ....

The three tracks missing are alternates, one with Thad, the other two are quartets - has anyone here heard them on the Milestone twofer? If they are without reverb, it would mean that was added afterwards. But I hesitate to buy a used copy of that double LP, since I already have the other date - the Bill Harris Fantasy LP with Ben.

[paul secor]

... but I'll go for anything w/Thad on it.

That was my initial motivation for getting this disc - but Ben's playing is very interesting, and the tune he wrote is nice, and the way he connects to the tunes written by the other players on the date. Ben with Thad Jones and Zawinul ....

The three tracks missing are alternates, one with Thad, the other two are quartets - has anyone here heard them on the Milestone twofer? If they are without reverb, it would mean that was added afterwards. But I hesitate to buy a used copy of that double LP, since I already have the other date - the Bill Harris Fantasy LP with Ben.

I can remember a mention of the reverb when the album was reviewed in Down Beat at the time of its original issue. Can't find the review online.

[JSngry]

I bet Ben would have sounded great playing "A Remark You Made".

For real.

[mikeweil]

Yes - he had his very own way to adapt to more modern stylistics, which shows on this Zawinul session, and the Impulse LP he made before he left for Europe. Would have been interesting to hear how he would have developped in these more challenging modernistic surroundings instead of the swing revival attitude his European accompanists seemingly preferred.

p.s. and I like the way he infuses his early r & b leanings on the Soulmates date.

[Mark Stryker]

I bet Ben would have sounded great playing "A Remark You Made".

For real.

Right on! Imagine him playing Wayne's "Infant Eyes" while we're at it.

[Free For All]

I bet Ben would have sounded great playing "A Remark You Made".

For real.

Right on! Imagine him playing Wayne's "Infant Eyes" while we're at it.

Or "Miyako".

[Swinging Swede]

2 - This is more a rhetorical question: Why in all the world didn't they include the three bonus tracks that Keepnews had added on the occasion of the Milestone twofer LP reissue, when they issued the OJC CD?

This happened on some OJC reissues. For example, the original Swingville LP Night Hawk had five tracks. It was later reissued on Prestige PR 7671 with a sixth track from the same session (a different composition, not an alternate take), but when the OJC CD came out, it only included the original five tracks. I guess someone in the chain didn't research properly. Just looking in a standard discography before doing a reissue would reveal these things.

[mikeweil]

I could easily list a dozen OJC CDs where they missed adding obvious bonus material. I guess the Soul Mates OJC CD was not prepared by Orrin Keepnews who would have remembered the alternates he unearthed for the Milestone twofer reissue.

[Shawn]

2 - This is more a rhetorical question: Why in all the world didn't they include the three bonus tracks that Keepnews had added on the occasion of the Milestone twofer LP reissue, when they issued the OJC CD?

This happened on some OJC reissues. For example, the original Swingville LP Night Hawk had five tracks. It was later reissued on Prestige PR 7671 with a sixth track from the same session (a different composition, not an alternate take), but when the OJC CD came out, it only included the original five tracks. I guess someone in the chain didn't research properly. Just looking in a standard discography before doing a reissue would reveal these things.

That was the example I thought of.

[johnlitweiler]

I guess the Soul Mates OJC CD was not prepared by Orrin Keepnews who would have remembered the alternates he unearthed for the Milestone twofer reissue.

I sorta doubt it. Some of Keepnews' reissues were mighty sloppy jobs. Two that come to mind today are his Victor Barrelhouse Boogie piano CD with one track repeated verbatim and his Victor JRM Centennial with 'Original Jelly Roll Blues' repeated except the alternate take has one note edited out.