EyeSpeech Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yesterday I was listening to Freddie Jackson - Hootin' 'n Tootin' and The Three Sounds - Introducing. Both have extensive bonus tracks not on the original LPs that nearly double the playing time of each album. In listening to the Gray/Hoffman-remastered SACDs yesterday, I noticed that the bonus tracks sound more open, dynamic and detailed than the original tracks. It's a major difference that is immediately audible. My question is why? It's possible the bonus tracks are on different tapes that have aged better than tapes of the standard tracks. The tapes with the bonus tracks were handled and played far less, I assume, than the original tapes. Perhaps they were stored in better conditions, too. Or perhaps the original tapes of the standard tracks were lost, and Hoffman/Gray had to use second-generation source material. Can anyone think of another reason for the difference in sound quality? I suppose I should address this question to the Hoffman forum or Michael Cuscuna who is intimately familiar with the Blue Note vaults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yesterday I was listening to Freddie Jackson - Hootin' 'n Tootin' and The Three Sounds - Introducing. Both have extensive bonus tracks not on the original LPs that nearly double the playing time of each album. In listening to the Gray/Hoffman-remastered SACDs yesterday, I noticed that the bonus tracks sound more open, dynamic and detailed than the original tracks. It's a major difference that is immediately audible. My question is why? It's possible the bonus tracks are on different tapes that have aged better than tapes of the standard tracks. The tapes with the bonus tracks were handled and played far less, I assume, than the original tapes. Perhaps they were stored in better conditions, too. Or perhaps the original tapes of the standard tracks were lost, and Hoffman/Gray had to use second-generation source material. Can anyone think of another reason for the difference in sound quality? I suppose I should address this question to the Hoffman forum or Michael Cuscuna who is intimately familiar with the Blue Note vaults. Or, you could just enjoy the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSpeech Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I enjoy it a lot. Does anyone know the details of the bonus tracks? Different session? Who's playing bass on those tracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Same group plus Sam Jones according to: http://www.answers.com/topic/hootin-n-tootin-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSpeech Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thanks Lon, it sounds like Sam Jones. The SACD notes make no mention of Jones or another session date, but the booklet says, "Blue Mitchell performs by courtesy of Riverside Records, Paul Chambers by courtesy of Vee-Jay Records," which is obviously wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thanks Lon, it sounds like Sam Jones. The SACD notes make no mention of Jones or another session date, but the booklet says, "Blue Mitchell performs by courtesy of Riverside Records, Paul Chambers by courtesy of Vee-Jay Records," which is obviously wrong. Paul Chambers recorded for Vee-Jay in the late 1950s and early 1960s; Hootin' 'n Tootin' was recorded in 1962 and Chambers might still have been under contract with Vee-Jay at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkboughtlunch Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yesterday I was listening to Freddie Jackson - Hootin' 'n Tootin' and The Three Sounds - Introducing. Both have extensive bonus tracks not on the original LPs that nearly double the playing time of each album. In listening to the Gray/Hoffman-remastered SACDs yesterday, I noticed that the bonus tracks sound more open, dynamic and detailed than the original tracks. It's a major difference that is immediately audible. My question is why? It's possible the bonus tracks are on different tapes that have aged better than tapes of the standard tracks. The tapes with the bonus tracks were handled and played far less, I assume, than the original tapes. Perhaps they were stored in better conditions, too. Or perhaps the original tapes of the standard tracks were lost, and Hoffman/Gray had to use second-generation source material. Can anyone think of another reason for the difference in sound quality? I suppose I should address this question to the Hoffman forum or Michael Cuscuna who is intimately familiar with the Blue Note vaults. Not sure. Could one possibility be that the original album tracks come from a Lp production master dub tape. And bonus tracks come from the original source reel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 That last post makes sense to me. Exactly the same scenario as the Vee Jay Mosaic boxes. The alternate takes were far superior to the master takes in sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) When did Associated Press start going into SACDs? Edited July 13, 2011 by king ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSpeech Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 AP = Analogue Productions label Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 When did Associated Press start going into SACDs? AP = Analogue Productions label I think Ubu was making fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSpeech Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Ok...there is no way Chambers or Mitchell played on that alternate session. AP must have failed to remove their names after producing another title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I wonder if the forthcoming Jackie Mclean New Soil hybrid SACD will contain the bonus track "Formidable." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I wonder if the forthcoming Jackie Mclean New Soil hybrid SACD will contain the bonus track "Formidable." I have it and it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Elusive Discs lists all the AP Blue Note hybrid SACDs. Clicking on the album titles will reveal the tracklistings, including bonus tracks (if any). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I wonder if the forthcoming Jackie Mclean New Soil hybrid SACD will contain the bonus track "Formidable." I have it and it does. Thanks. A sonic improvement over previous versions? One of my favorite McLeans. (I forgot about Elusive Discs. Thanks, Hans.) I'm still waiting for importCDs to carry this title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) I wonder if the forthcoming Jackie Mclean New Soil hybrid SACD will contain the bonus track "Formidable." I have it and it does. Thanks. A sonic improvement over previous versions? One of my favorite McLeans. (I forgot about Elusive Discs. Thanks, Hans.) I'm still waiting for importCDs to carry this title. You're welcome, Late. Haven't heard New Soil yet, but to my ears the CD layers (don't have an SACD player) of the AP/Blue Note hybrids I had didn't sound better than the BN Works versions (without bonus tracks) I have. They did sound a bit better to me than the McMaster versions (with bonus tracks) I also have, but if that's enough to justify the hybrids' much higher price... Edited August 8, 2011 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSpeech Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 don't have an SACD player Wow, you're really missing out on what these discs are capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Haven't heard New Soil yet, but to my ears the CD layers (don't have an SACD player) of the AP/Blue Note hybrids I had didn't sound better than the BN Works versions (without bonus tracks) I have. That's what I kind of figured. I only have a CDR of the TOCJ, and so I'll probably end up purchasing the AP edition when it shows up on importCDs. (Goodness knows I can surely wait to purchase another CD.) The track "Formidable" isn't hugely important, but it's decent enough. It's the first track (to me) that's great. Too bad the entry on that track (just the first few seconds) has always sounded (sonically) botched. I wonder what happened to the tape there, and if that same glitch (drop-out?) is on the LP. (Do you guys know what I'm talking about?) I also dig that Pete LaRoca is credited with a "free" drum solo on this LP. (Five years before Sunny Murray!) All said, it really is a fine solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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