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Fresh Sound: Jordi Pujol Interview


BillF

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Y'all are making this one of the bestest, funniest days of this almost-over year, not getting the joke of "legitimacy" that everybody's so keen to claim here. Y'all want it so badly you don't even now what it is. I especially am laughing at how the Euros are all like "hey, it's legal here now, so too bad for America, we're sick of you guys anyway". So NOT the point!

Needle drops from master tapes being a treat - that's the point and that's the joke, and that's why I'm ROTF laffing MFAO!

Keep it coming!

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...The thieves (if any) in the U.S. are at the intra-U.S. distributors' and retailers' end, nowhere else...

You conveniently ignore the fact that it is Fresh Sound's own distribution company, Absolute, that makes these titles available to U.S. retailers. That doesn't excuse retailers from their role in the process, but it doesn't make Jordi an innocent bystander either.

As Jim said, if you're going to steal, then do it. Don't call it something else, or justify it by blaming it on someone else's actions or lack of action. We're talking about records here, not medicine or a loaf of bread. There's no ethical conundrum at play, just people's desire to obtain something that the owner doesn't wish to sell.

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As Jim said, if you're going to steal, then do it. Don't call it something else, or justify it by blaming it on someone else's actions or lack of action. We're talking about records here, not medicine or a loaf of bread. There's no ethical conundrum at play, just people's desire to obtain something that the owner doesn't wish to sell.

Wrong. As long as you are talking to somebody OUTSIDE your sphere of applicability of YOUR law, TOTALLY WRONG.

The 50-year P.D. cutoff date law is a law in those countries where it is legally in force. Period. And that makes sales of such material legal in those realms of the world. Public domain means that the erstwhile rights holders forfeit their rights after these 50 years (or 70 from a certain point of time of applicability). Period again.

So go ahead and differentiate your discussions on this entire topic, if you will, please.

And discuss the "thief" thing with those who come under the jurisdiction of "your" law. But leave the others alone.

And as for conveniently ignoring things, see my above posts indicating numerous examples of cases of their reissues where - by all indications - legal arangements with the rights holders have been reached. Time to come to realize it isn't all either black or white in this debate, don't you think so?

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Jim, we get your point. You are saying, since you can steal it, why pay for CDs or downloads. Carry on. That has no bearing on the legality of our situation in Europe, which is all we are discussing here, not what you call its 'legitimacy' (i.e. what you personally think fair). You think it legitimate to steal from copyright holders in your country (you may have explained why, but I lost it). Go ahead. And maybe you genuinely believe that to do so is fair, though not legal. The copyright holders, as we all know, are usually major labels who bought up catalogues for peanuts when the original owners fell on hard times or died. I suspect that most people stealing this music via illegal downloads or trading know that and justify it to themselves for that reason rather than any other.

Fresh Sounds have issued over 300 new recordings in the last ten years. I'm not sure how much new work illegal downloading funds.

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Jim, we get your point. <br>
<br><br>

No, I don't think you do...the point here ;is not legal vs illegal, PD vs copyright, etc.

The point here is that this Pujiolo guy steps up and fields UBER-softball questions and says, ah yes, I am a legitimate businessman yada-yada-yada- and then people here step in and say YES! SEE? WE TOLD YOU SO!!!

In the meantime, they got the tapes and y'all get needledrops.

I used to play in a lot of clubs in Fort Worth owned by a drug kingpin named Billy Ray Maddox. This guy would occasionally build parks and such in the neighborhoods that he poisoned, and not particularly good ones at that. But the people who lived in those neighborhoods loved him because he built them parks for their kids to play in while they were getting high, and as far as they were concerned, he was a legitimate businessman. Damn straight he was! Even if his shit was rumored to be cut like none other...

When Billy Ray was sentenced to hard time, it was with him and his champions in the hood still proclaiming to be a legitimate businessman, even if the facts didn't add up to support the claim. Nobody had the basic personal integrity to step up and say, yeah, I like to get high and Billy Ray's my man. I don't care how much his shit's been stepped on, it gets ME high!

Billy Ray Pujol doesn't deal drugs, but he's still just as much a "legitimate businessman" as Billy Ray Maddox. Why, with his New Talent imprint, he even builds parks! How much more legit can you get?

Jodi Pujol is a completely legitimate businessman. This interview proves it beyond all question. That's why he's got the tapes and you got the needledrops. And a few parks here and there.

Hey, you like to get high, so do I. We pretty much all all do. But geez, have some kind of standards about it!

Edited by JSngry
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It's not exactly the same thing. Stipulated.

But the rush to claim Jordi Pujol's from-jump "legitimacy" based on face-value swallowing of one puff-ball interview (in which there are holes big enough to drive J-Lo's ass and an 18-wheeler through...) is truly, truly funny and does remind me of other defenders of other "legitimate businessmen".

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How do I reconcile it?

Easy - I admit to allowing greed and curiosity override my sense of right and wrong. Simple as that. Don't pretend. I try to make it up as much as I can, but we all make our deals with our own devils, ya' know?.

That, and I get as many "end copies" of Fresh Sounds material as possible through non-paying means. I don't do this for new releases or for reissues which have had some kind of real value added. Now that there's the Internet, I can get needledrops and cassette dubs for free instead of paying for them. But that's another discussion, already had.

Pujol needs to save his money, I need to save mine.

Ubu asked the right questions earlier, and I'm pretty sure he knew the answers before asking them.

The discussion I've been trying to have here is about the hows/whys of this big need to "legitimize" Pujol rather than admitting that us and out ilk and him and his ilk are in a junkie/dealer type relationship, with the dealer willing to sell us any damn thing and with us willing to buy it, say thank you, and ask when we can come back for more.

Everybody has "indulgences", nobody's a fucking junkie.

Bullshit.

Edited by JSngry
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well, you seem to be assuming that the bootleggers in jazz are making a lot of money - without an audit, this would be hard to determine or confirm. and if they're not, then the "greed" aspect changes.

also, let me re-track - if musicians are not entitled to fees for the re-issue of their material (and they are not) and the publishing is being paid properly - as I know it is with the companies I've dealt with - then what is the real issue?

Edited by AllenLowe
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1 - Means of acquirement of a lot of his "material". Obviously some is legit, but just as obviously, some is not. Somebody offers you tapes and you "assume" that it's a legit offer from the actual owners? Uh, yeah...stories abound of the exact opposite happening, often involving Pujol directly. People "have the tapes", not owning them, looking to move them like the fences they more or less are, and Pujol asking no questions whatsoever, "assuming" in the most euphemistic way possible. Ask around...go ahead, ask around...

2 - Equating "legal" with "legitimate"

3 - Consumer "settling" for inferior product and hailing the provider as a hero.

Other than that, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

(and oh, btw - I am not "assuming" that the "bootleggers" are making a lot of money. I am assuming, however, that they are making enough to keep a set of profitable businesses operational and ongoing.)

Edited by JSngry
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Ubu asked the right questions earlier, and I'm pretty sure he knew the answers before asking them.

You bet!

How do I reconcile it?

Easy - I admit to allowing greed and curiosity override my sense of right and wrong. Simple as that. Don't pretend. I try to make it up as much as I can, but we all make our deals with our own devils, ya' know?.

That, and I get as many "end copies" of Fresh Sounds material as possible through non-paying means. I don't do this for new releases or for reissues which have had some kind of real value added. Now that there's the Internet, I can get needledrops and cassette dubs for free instead of paying for them. But that's another discussion, already had.

Pujol needs to save his money, I need to save mine.

I can fully endorse that.

The sun is shining and The Band is playing (Long Black Veil as I'm typing - here's a link, but clicking it may infringe copy rights!) :)

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It is worth keeping in mind, though. Shady Gradys are everywhere in all walks of life, even within families,and they all operate in pretty much the same manner.

So, it's not just about Pujol, it's about a way of doing business in general and about consumers needing to realize that they'll only get as good as they'll accept.

Pujol is just the specific at hand. It's a universal matter, though, be it music or be it leg of lamb.

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