George Coleman Octet 1984

[White Lightning]

Hi guys, I can really use your help on this one:

I own a bootlet recording of the George Coleman Octet dated from July 23, 1984, and I was wondering if anyone can help me with its lineup.

I know that Frank Strozier is on alto sax on this one and I think I recognized Harold Mabern on piano.

George Coleman introduces a sax player named "Robert Garner" - Has anybody heard about this sax player?

Any idea who the trumpet player is? Jim Rotondi maybe?

And who is the Bari player? He's very very good!

Thanks

[fasstrack]

I never heard the recording, but Coleman used to play with Pat Patrick (bari----but he considered himself a tenor player, and was a good one) some.

I think I vaguely remember that group playing around town circa '84-'85. Musta sounded good. Who wrote for them?

[brownie]

This looks like the George Coleman Octet date from November 1977 that was recorded for VeeJay but remained unissued on that label. I have this on an Affinity LP. Don't think George Coleman had this octet working in 1984.

Lineup for the 1977 date was:

Danny Moore, tp, Frank Strozier, as, George Coleman, Junior Cook, ts, Mario Rivera, bar, Harold Mabern, p, Lisle Atkinson, b, Idris Muhammad, dr, Azzedin Weston, perc.

Tunes include 'Green Dolphin Street' 'Body and Soul' and originals.

[White Lightning]

brownie, I don't think this bootleg was ever on LP. It's a live recording. Coleman explicitely introduces a sax player named "Robert Garner"

Tunes are:

1.Green Dolphine

2.So long, goodbye (blues)

3.Fulton St. Symphony (feat. Strozier and Garner) devided into 2 tracks

[robviti]

Here's what I found (hope it's correct):

Robert Garner Jr. (a.k.a. Bobby LaVell) has recently played saxophone, clarinet and flute in the Duke Ellington Orchestra. He's appeared on recordings by Grover Washington, Mark Elf, and the Saxemble, among others. He's based in Yonkers, New York and leads his own big band called the Hudson Jazz Orchestra. Here's a link to some sound clips from a recording by the HJO: hudson jazz orchestra. He's also the son of Memphis mainstay Robert 'Honeymoon' Garner; pianist, organist, and singer; who died in 2002 at age 71. BTW, the senior Garner also played with big George, along with Louis Smith and many other Memphis-based musicians.

Edited January 22, 2004 by jazzshrink

[Daniel A]

I remember 'On Green Dolphin Street' as played ridiculously fast on the Affinity LP; is it performed in the same manner on the bootleg?

[brownie]

Daniel's recollection is correct. Spinning the Affinity LP now. 'On Green Dolphin Street' has a very fast two chorus introduction by George Coleman then Harold Mabern calms things down and the rest of the performance is played at a somehow slower tempo.

[mikeweil]

I suspect a bootleg. Noal Cohen's Frank Strozier Discography doesn't have it, and at least the recording date of 1984 is very unlikely. The applause couild be faked. Can you post track timings, solo order etc, then I could compare to the Affinity LP.

Body and Soul and Dolphin Street were on that LP.

[White Lightning]

Mike, I'm sure it's a live recording. You hear cutlery clincking from time to time... and the tracks are live show long tracks

Here's some additional info:

Re Green Dolphine: it's a 19:20 long track. It begins in a medium-fast tempo, Solo order:

tenor, bari (GREAT solo, btw), trumpet, piano, bass, drums. then at about 12:50 mark, it goes to tutti where the tempo picks up to fast. Then you have short solos in that order: tenor, alto, piano. The piano slows things down to the original tempo, and then head-out.

2nd track (So long, goodbye. a basic blues) is about 16:10 long (omitting the chatter before the music begins)

3rd and 4th tracks are 2 parts of Fulton St. Symphony. It clocks around 17:50 sans introduction.

[relyles]

I own a bootlet recording of the George Coleman Octet dated from July 23, 1984, and I was wondering if anyone can help me with its lineup.

I have an unofficial recording of the Coleman octet supposedly performed at Bushnell Park in Hartford, CT with the same date. I don't have it with me so I can not check the tracks to see if they are the same. I do not have any personnel information. My understanding is that this was never issued, neither as a bootleg or as an official recording.

[mikeweil]

Will you please send your info abou these issues to Noal Cohen, you will find an e-mail link on his website that I linked in my above post. We discographers need your help with such items! Thanks a lot!

[brownie]

Came upon this CD yesterday by the George Coleman band 'Danger High Voltage', a TwoAndFour recording from 1996 that was released in 2000. Very nice album which I had never heard of.

Here is a Jazzmatazz review of it by Alan Lankin.

http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net/reviews.p/R0009f.html

[catesta]

Came upon this CD yesterday by the George Coleman band 'Danger High Voltage', a TwoAndFour recording from 1996 that was released in 2000. Very nice album which I had never heard of.

Here is a Jazzmatazz review of it by Alan Lankin.

http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net/reviews.p/R0009f.html

I just ordered the cd today.

I'm not familair with most of the players, but the samples sounded pretty good. So, I'm thinking I won't be disappointed.

[marcello]

I just ordered the cd today.

I'm not familair with most of the players, but the samples sounded pretty good. So, I'm thinking I won't be disappointed.

Two and Four is Ned Otter's label who has been playing in NYC for over 25 years and was once a student of Big George's.

All of the rest of the players are current on the NYC scene and have recorded often.

[Free For All]

And who is the Bari player? He's very very good!

I'll bet it's Gary Smulyan.

[catesta]

I just ordered the cd today.

I'm not familair with most of the players, but the samples sounded pretty good. So, I'm thinking I won't be disappointed.

Two and Four is Ned Otter's label who has been playing in NYC for over 25 years and was once a student of Big George's.

All of the rest of the players are current on the NYC scene and have recorded often.

Thanks for the info.

I know Rotondi is very active in town, as of course is Mabern. I'll need to keep my eyes and ears open for the other guys.

[MartyJazz]

I have two live recordings of the Coleman Octet, one done at the Village Gate in NYC on April 28, 1975, the other done at the Montreux Jazz Festival on July 17, 1980. "Robert Garner" is not listed as performing on either broadcast.

[sidewinder]

On 1/22/2004 at 9:10 AM, brownie said:

This looks like the George Coleman Octet date from November 1977 that was recorded for VeeJay but remained unissued on that label. I have this on an Affinity LP. Don't think George Coleman had this octet working in 1984.

Lineup for the 1977 date was:

Danny Moore, tp, Frank Strozier, as, George Coleman, Junior Cook, ts, Mario Rivera, bar, Harold Mabern, p, Lisle Atkinson, b, Idris Muhammad, dr, Azzedin Weston, perc.

Tunes include 'Green Dolphin Street' 'Body and Soul' and originals.

Up for this very, very old thread but I saw the Octet with much of this lineup in London in 1980 I think - certainly Strozier and Idris Muhammad were present, also Mario Rivera on baritone and Sal Nistico I think on tenor, Danny Moore on flugel.

Just been watching a UK Channel 4 TV broadcast recording from 1983, with the group recorded either 1981 or 1982 at The Roundhouse as part of the Camden Jazz Festival (those were the days). By then the alto chair had been taken by a young Bobby Watson. It's a nice broadcast, culminating with Coleman's tune 'Simone', also featured on Elvin Jones 'Coalition' album.

George mentions in the broadcast the difficulty of finding time for rehearsals of the Octet in NYC with this busy group of musicians.

Edited April 18 by sidewinder

[mikeweil]

Noal Cohen has a line-up in his Frank Strozier discography; https://attictoys.com/frank-strozier/frank-strozier-discography/#sess-year_1984