Which Blue Note CDs did you generally prefer before the SHM reissues?

[king ubu]

You have a point there ... still it seems to me there's a somewhat general shift to sonic issues over music, and I wanted to merely point that out, since I regret it .... but in the end it's of course one's own decision whether to keep searching or to restrain oneself to the umpteenth Blue Note reissue.

In that spirit, my negative comment is also a good-natured nudge - but then again, as they say (I hate this saying, it has nazi implications) "to each his own".

[Scott Dolan]

No idea, but I still prefer some as I don't have any SHMs quite yet ... seems to me with reissues drying up, there's an almost ridiculous amount of discussions ®evolving about sound ... and less and less on the music itself. But then that might be org growing into its teens, too ... what do I know.

I'd say that given the fact that most of the music discussed here tends to be several decades old, it only stands to reason that conversation about them would eventually dry up. How much can one say about Kind Of Blue, for example?

So I have to disagree with my friend J.A.W., I didn't see this as a negative comment. Just a reasonable observation.

[J.A.W.]

No idea, but I still prefer some as I don't have any SHMs quite yet ... seems to me with reissues drying up, there's an almost ridiculous amount of discussions ®evolving about sound ... and less and less on the music itself. But then that might be org growing into its teens, too ... what do I know.

I'd say that given the fact that most of the music discussed here tends to be several decades old, it only stands to reason that conversation about them would eventually dry up. How much can one say about Kind Of Blue, for example?

So I have to disagree with my friend J.A.W., I didn't see this as a negative comment. Just a reasonable observation.

OK, but as I said this thread is about sonic preferences, not about whether a discussion like that is worthwhile or not; that's not the point here and would actually be off-topic.

Edited February 2, 2014 by J.A.W.

[Stefan Wood]

It's a mixed bag. I have some McMasters because they sound or are mixed better than the RVGs. I have some TOCJs because at the time those were the only editions in existence. Most of them sounded better than the US counterparts. Connoisseurs I have because that's all there was. They do sound the worst of the lot. I have a bunch of RVGs as well. I can't speak about the new releases, but I have on order Sam Rivers' New Conception and John Patton's That Certain Feeling. I'll find out when I get them how good the sound is. Maybe then I will upgrade some titles, but not all. There's too much other interesting music out there to grab my attention.

[Scott Dolan]

It's a mixed bag. I have some McMasters because they sound or are mixed better than the RVGs. I have some TOCJs because at the time those were the only editions in existence. Most of them sounded better than the US counterparts. Connoisseurs I have because that's all there was. They do sound the worst of the lot. I have a bunch of RVGs as well. I can't speak about the new releases, but I have on order Sam Rivers' New Conception and John Patton's That Certain Feeling. I'll find out when I get them how good the sound is. Maybe then I will upgrade some titles, but not all. There's too much other interesting music out there to grab my attention.

And that last line is really the meat and potatoes of discussions like these, right? Most folks finally reach a point where they have to say enough is enough. How many more and/or "better" ways does one wish to hear the same album over and over again?

Three issues and $50 later, I'm usually throwing in the towel...

[ArtSalt]

I think there's always a market for improved quality, combined with extra tracks, it will always be tempting to move onto the next technology, format or "ultimate" remaster. The price of the current crop of Blue Note SHM-CDs are very reasonable and I've purchased a couple where I already had RVG's, also to XRCD's.

I've been auditioning a couple of reissues today:

Monk's Genius of Modern Music Vol.1 with the latest SHM-CD compared with the RVG from 2001. Well, there's certainly more tracks on the RVG and in the order of recording which can be make for an interesting listen. But the depth and punch in the sound of the SHM-CD with less crackle from the source is a winner IMCO. It certainly isn't a revolution in listening, but it is significantly better.

Morgan's Tom Cat with the Audio Wave XRCD compared with the RVG. Here the difference is more pronounced with a much wider stage of sound on the XRCD, warmer too. On the basis of the Morgon XRCD's I've purchased Blakey's A Night In Tunisia, which I have in vaious formats, but I am not buying the SHM-CD version to sit around all audiophile nerd trying to spot the nuances and subtlety of quality compared to each other!

I think one of the problems, that leads to a market for exploitation of further Blue Note reissues, is that there has never been satisfactory remastering in a lot of the previous reissues, one that could compete with good vinyl pressings. With the latest XRCD's and SHM-CD's we are at last in the ball park.

Edited February 2, 2014 by ArtSalt

[Scott Dolan]

Perhaps.

I'm just saying that for me personally, buying the same goddamn album over and over again for small improvements, or bonus tracks, gets old quickly.

[jazzbo]

I think one of the problems, that leads to a market for exploitation of further Blue Note reissues, is that there has never been satisfactory remastering in a lot of the previous reissues, one that could compete with good vinyl pressings. With the latest XRCD's and SHM-CD's we are at last in the ball park.

ArtSalt, I think you hit the nail on the head here as to why there is so much disuccion of the sound of Blue Note digital releases.

[Daniel A]

I find it interesting that Connoisseurs are sometimes criticized for unpleasant mastering/sound, as I find them OK (without having heard them all). One session I've always thought sounds good is the Connoisseur release of Freddie Hubbard's 'Ready for Freddie'. I can't compare with any other CD release, really, but to me it sounds better than many other BN sessions of that vintage.

[paul secor]

I have a fair number of Blue Note/King LPs and some Toshiba/EMI LPs. (Don't like the Toshibas as much. though some have good sound.)

I also have a number of McMasters, Conns, and RVGs to have recordings I don't have on LP or to have tracks that aren't on LP.

I like some RVGs better than others and there are a few I don't care much for at all. And there are some that I like a lot.

I had at least one JRVG that I replaced with a U.S. RVG and was happy with the replacement. In general, I listen to the LPs, and try not to go crazy about the sound when I listen to the various CDs. Unfortunately, that doesnt always happen.

Haven't bought any SHMs and don't plan to. I've bought more than my share of Blue Notes - no mas.

[Leeway]

IIRC on the old BNBB the intense excitement over the RVGs, which would be the next title to get the RVG treatment, which title had already been given the RVG treatment in Japan and not in the US, etc etc. Then (or maybe concurrently) there was a lot of talk about the Connoisseur line, again a lot of excitement. Seems hard to believe now.

[erwbol]

My history of Blue Note collecting has resulted in a love-hate relationship with previous EMI releases.

I started collecting Blue Note in 1999 with the release of the first batch of RVGs. I bought the Shorters among others. I naïvely believed that remastered was better and never bothered with early McMasters that were still around. Early on I also bought Connoisseurs like Shorter's Schizophrenia. I learned about Mosaic and briefly entertained the idea of importing a box or two from them. In the end I did not buy their product until much later.

I never really enjoyed the sound of the discs, but blamed my system for not being good enough.

When the copy protection scheme hit in 2003 I stopped buying Blue Note altogether until 2009. I did import a few titles like the Coltrane Monk discs from 2005. Then when the copy protection scheme was dropped, the RVGs were cheap all of a sudden. Just €5 a piece at Fame in Amsterdam. Then I started reading more on the internet and buying McMasters second hand as well as importing Connoisseurs I'd missed in the mean time and TOCJ BN Works titles. I also illegally download FLACs and burn to CD-RW to make informed buying decisions.

The APO SACDs and Audio Wave XRCD24s then opened my eyes to how much crappy product I've been misled into consuming over the years. The problem with these two series is their uninspiring choice of titles.

I've always preferred buying second hand McMasters and Connoiseurs from US sellers, so the (more than) doubling of shipping costs hit hard. A second hand McMaster from the US can now cost as much as €15 to import, a price I'm not willing to pay.

The Japanese SHMs are exactly what I've been hoping for. For the above reasons my Blue Note collection is modest at the moment.

So my preferred previous Blue Notes are XRCD24, Hybrid SACD, and early McMasters.

[etherbored]

...the (more than) doubling of shipping costs hit hard.

what happened? was this due to amazon increasing the mandatory postage cost for resellers?

[erwbol]

Late 2012, USPS doubled their rates, Amazon followed. Shipping a single CD to the EU now costs about $14.

Edited February 3, 2014 by erwbol

[J.A.W.]

Fortunately, not all U.S. sellers raised their international shipping rates. For instance, ImportCDs' overseas rate is still $6.99 for 1 CD.

[erwbol]

They seem to ship in bulk to the EU. Individual parcels don't enter the posting system until they've crossed EU borders.

[etherbored]

Late 2012, USPS doubled their rates, Amazon followed. Shipping a single CD to the EU now costs about $14.

holy smokes! that's insane! how awful.

[riverrat]

The APO SACDs and Audio Wave XRCD24s then opened my eyes to how much crappy product I've been misled into consuming over the years....I think one of the problems, that leads to a market for exploitation of further Blue Note reissues, is that there has never been satisfactory remastering in a lot of the previous reissues, one that could compete with good vinyl pressings. With the latest XRCD's and SHM-CD's we are at last in the ball park...

I'll echo Lon in agreeing that you have hit the nail on the head with this observation.

It is quite annoying that its taken the music industry 25 years to finally offer decent sounding CDs of this music.

[erwbol]

The APO SACDs and Audio Wave XRCD24s then opened my eyes to how much crappy product I've been misled into consuming over the years....I think one of the problems, that leads to a market for exploitation of further Blue Note reissues, is that there has never been satisfactory remastering in a lot of the previous reissues, one that could compete with good vinyl pressings. With the latest XRCD's and SHM-CD's we are at last in the ball park...

I'll echo Lon in agreeing that you have hit the nail on the head with this observation.

It is quite annoying that its taken the music industry 25 years to finally offer decent sounding CDs of this music.

I seem be guilty of plagiarism in my post above.

[ejp626]

Perhaps.

I'm just saying that for me personally, buying the same goddamn album over and over again for small improvements, or bonus tracks, gets old quickly.

I hear that. The number of CDs that I have upgraded just for sonics alone can be counted on approximately one hand (I did get a few Monk and Mingus sets that had duplicates but also filled gaps and supposedly had better sonics). Now I have been tempted more often for bonus tracks, and of these SHM releases, the only ones I am seriously considering are the ones with bonus tracks.

I'm sure some people see this perpetual upgrading/enhancement as a good thing, but I just see it as a deadweight. The dead hand of the past and all that. I hear all these upbeat stories about how jazz is more vibrant than ever, etc., etc., and then I see where are companies putting their marketing dollars (presumably matching what is actually selling) and I despair. Ok, ECM and some of the smaller labels are still putting out new product and, less frequently, new artists, but the majors, no way. Well, I could go on, but really what's the point...

[ejp626]

Late 2012, USPS doubled their rates, Amazon followed. Shipping a single CD to the EU now costs about $14.

holy smokes! that's insane! how awful.

You want insane, the price of "international" shipping to Canada is the same as to Europe. Tell me that's fair when it's being trucked up from Seattle or Buffalo or some such place. It used to be $1 more than domestic shipping.

[erwbol]

Late 2012, USPS doubled their rates, Amazon followed. Shipping a single CD to the EU now costs about $14.

holy smokes! that's insane! how awful.

You want insane, the price of "international" shipping to Canada is the same as to Europe. Tell me that's fair when it's being trucked up from Seattle or Buffalo or some such place. It used to be $1 more than domestic shipping.

Capitalism works .... for the rich.

[Clunky]

Has any one experience of Bennie Green's "Walkin & Talkin'' ", I've this on TOCJ6540. Whilst there is great space or air around the instruments I find the disc a little aggressive sounding. Nothing too extreme but I wondered if this could be down to "loudness" issues I've seen mentioned. Anyone else heard this or other editions of this nice laid back date.

[ejp626]

Late 2012, USPS doubled their rates, Amazon followed. Shipping a single CD to the EU now costs about $14.

holy smokes! that's insane! how awful.

You want insane, the price of "international" shipping to Canada is the same as to Europe. Tell me that's fair when it's being trucked up from Seattle or Buffalo or some such place. It used to be $1 more than domestic shipping.

Capitalism works .... for the rich.

Seriously. NAFTA This, MF'ers.

Oddly enough, the flip side is that if you are a Canadian seller (on Amazon.ca) and you (perhaps accidentally) say that you will ship to the States, then the amount Amazon.ca will reimburse you will come fairly close to covering mailing a CD but nowhere near the cost of mailing a book or DVD. I had to stop offering to ship to the States unless it was just a single CD. I can't even make it work for a CD box set.

[J.A.W.]

Has any one experience of Bennie Green's "Walkin & Talkin'' ", I've this on TOCJ6540. Whilst there is great space or air around the instruments I find the disc a little aggressive sounding. Nothing too extreme but I wondered if this could be down to "loudness" issues I've seen mentioned. Anyone else heard this or other editions of this nice laid back date.

This 24-bit mastered TOCJ-6xxx series from 2004/5 is known for its loudness and boosted highs/lows, which is not to everyone's taste. I had quite a few of these CDs and on first hearing I liked them, but after repeated listening I found the sound very fatiguing and unpleasant and sold them all. I have the "Blue Note Works" version of Walkin' and Talkin' from 1993 (TOCJ-4010).

Edited February 4, 2014 by J.A.W.