Hardbopjazz Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) What is this? Is this something from the Blue Note vaults? Wayne's release "Adams Apple" has a tune called the Collector. Are they the same recordings or something new? Edited September 22, 2015 by Hardbopjazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Released on US lp and cd as "Et Cetera." http://www.discogs.com/Wayne-Shorter-The-Collector/release/1726709https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_Cetera_(Wayne_Shorter_album) Edited September 22, 2015 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Ah! Thanks Lon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Except that the original 1980 US LP of Et Cetera did not contain the cut "The Collector". That was a cut that did not see issue until the American CD release of Adam's Apple, which is the album at whose sessions it was recorded.There's a little (just a little) bit of a story here.The Collector began it's public life life as a 1979 Japanese King BN vault issue of what Americans now know as the LT-series Et Cetera album, plus the piece called "The Collector", an extra from the second Adam's Apple session. When the American Et Cetera album was released in 1980 without "The Collector", people who had heard the Japanese version (notably John Litweiler, who cave the cut a very intense spotlight in The Freedom Principle, raising the possibility that the cut was too strongly different to find a home on any of Wayne's subsequent BN albums, so it was left it the can, a notion not unsupported after hearing the Et Cetera album, which was equally strong, equally different, and equally left in the can) sorta raised a little bit of mini-hell and were all like, "hey, where's "The Collector?", that's a monumental accomplishment!" So when American Blue Note got revitalized and started reissuing back-catalog CDs, they added "The Collector" to Adam's Apple, which would make sense, because it's from those sessions. But it's also problematic, because it is an entirely different mood and method than the rest of that record.It's actually more in line with the moods and methods of Et Cetera, but that album had gained such a distinct (if limited, almost "cult"-ish) identity after it's 1980 US LP release, and I think that Adam's Apple, with "The Collector" on board had already been issued. So The Collector record itself, as issued in Japan in 1979, was not really relevant to the America catalog and the Et Cetera album was reissued on CD with the same contents as the American LP (but not the same cover, which is a real drag, imo).For my hearing, it's a perplexing item, the piece "The Collector". Definitely a masterpiece, definitely does not "fit in" with Adam's Apple, definitely breaks the flow of Et Cetera, but definitely a work that needs to be readily available in the Wayne Shorter catalog. No matter where you put it on either one of those albums, it's the type of thing that deserves a 5-10 second pause before or after so you can transition into or out of it. It's that strong, and it's that different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Thanks for that back-story, Jim. I had no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Weiss Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Except that the original 1980 US LP of Et Cetera did not contain the cut "The Collector". That was a cut that did not see issue until the American CD release of Adam's Apple, which is the album at whose sessions it was recorded. And "Toy Tune" is missing from "The Collector." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I've yet to do it in full, but tracing the migration patterns of the Japanese King issues of the Blue Note vault material over to the American LT series makes for some pretty interesting research. Sometimes the came over in a timely manner, sometimes not. The Grant Green Standards album, the trio with Wilbur Ware and Al Harewood, was out in Japan on LP for a good while before it came out on American CD, 15-20 years, something like that.Cadence might have been covering the King releases, I don't know. But the "regular" American jazz press was not. I only found out about them while on the road, a few shops in NYC and the Jazz Record Mart in Chicago, it was like, what's this Pisces record by Art Blakey?, etc. Except that the original 1980 US LP of Et Cetera did not contain the cut "The Collector". That was a cut that did not see issue until the American CD release of Adam's Apple, which is the album at whose sessions it was recorded. And "Toy Tune" is missing from "The Collector."Yeah, that's right, forgot about that!and "Toy Tune" is the real mindfuck on Et cetera for me, always has been. I can almost see why if you're having "the Collector" on a record, you leave off "Toy Tune"...almost...but not quite. But in LP format, does bringing "Toy Tune" to light in America justify leaving "The Collector" behind in Japan? Hmmm...yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corto maltese Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Yes, it's funny: I remember finding "The Collector" which allowed me to dispose of the 1980 "Etcetera" with its typically dull packaging. Just when I realized I was now missing "Toy Tune", the Blue Note Conaisseur series came to the rescue with a very much more attractive "Etcetera". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Most Perfect Sending-A-Message Blue Note Cover Ever. Mileages vary, of course. But this music on this label in 1980, yeah, there it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 It's amazing how having the spotlight fall on a particular track or album can make you re-hear it. Never really took much notice of this song. Now, yeah, i'm conscious of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Weiss Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 And "Toy Tune" is missing from "The Collector."Yeah, that's right, forgot about that!and "Toy Tune" is the real mindfuck on Et cetera for me, always has been. I can almost see why if you're having "the Collector" on a record, you leave off "Toy Tune"...almost...but not quite. But in LP format, does bringing "Toy Tune" to light in America justify leaving "The Collector" behind in Japan? Hmmm...yes?I'd be pissed off either way.When the Japanese BNs hit J&R around 1979-1980 it was off to the races to snatch them up before they disappeared. Around $15 a piece IIRC back then! Quite a few were never issued stateside on LP including those Grant Greens, the Sonny Clarks, Hutch's Oblique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Has Herbie ever gone on the record about this tune, it's origins, evolutions, etc. It almost sounds like a preliminary sketch for "Riot"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) I've yet to do it in full, but tracing the migration patterns of the Japanese King issues of the Blue Note vault material over to the American LT series makes for some pretty interesting research. Sometimes the came over in a timely manner, sometimes not. The Grant Green Standards album, the trio with Wilbur Ware and Al Harewood, was out in Japan on LP for a good while before it came out on American CD, 15-20 years, something like that.Cadence might have been covering the King releases, I don't know. But the "regular" American jazz press was not. I only found out about them while on the road, a few shops in NYC and the Jazz Record Mart in Chicago, it was like, what's this Pisces record by Art Blakey?, et YES - "what is this Pices record". I remember traveling to NYC from KC back in the day, with a musician buddy of mine urging me to track it down. Tower in the Village had it all back in the day, but they did not have Pices!!! Edited September 23, 2015 by Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Miles recorded 'The Collector' as 'Teo's Bag' and gave himself composer credit. I do see a kinship with 'Riot'.Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 It's amazing how having the spotlight fall on a particular track or album can make you re-hear it. Never really took much notice of this song. Now, yeah, i'm conscious of it! mystical interplay between Hancock, Workman and Chambers .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) And "Toy Tune" is missing from "The Collector."Yeah, that's right, forgot about that!and "Toy Tune" is the real mindfuck on Et cetera for me, always has been. I can almost see why if you're having "the Collector" on a record, you leave off "Toy Tune"...almost...but not quite. But in LP format, does bringing "Toy Tune" to light in America justify leaving "The Collector" behind in Japan? Hmmm...yes?I'd be pissed off either way.When the Japanese BNs hit J&R around 1979-1980 it was off to the races to snatch them up before they disappeared. Around $15 a piece IIRC back then! Quite a few were never issued stateside on LP including those Grant Greens, the Sonny Clarks, Hutch's Oblique. Mole Jazz in London had them all during that 1979-80 period as well - I remember seeing the likes of 'Pisces', the Grant Greens, 'Inner Glow', 'Oblique', 'The Collector' etc. in the racks for about £8 or £9 back then, a small fortune at the time. It is only in the last decade that I've picked up 'The Collector' on the King issue but it cost me a bit more than £8...Wish I could get on a time machine and program it for Kings Cross, 1980 ! Edited September 23, 2015 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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