Maria Schneider - forget looking in your CD shop!

[Clunky]

I'm taking this off on holiday with me to get better acquainted, plus some Woody Herman, Fly, Tony Malaby, Jess Stacy, John Lewis and Warne Marsh.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I've been listening to all her CDs over the past couple of days and I do see the point you're making about how the releases have evolved. For one thing - note that the last two are not by the Maria Schneider Jazz Orchestra, but are by the Maria Schneider Orchestra. Which goes back to the idea that this is concert music - no need to even get the jazz label involved. It's music and it's wonderful.

In light of the NYT article, I wonder how much of the "jazz" name and the move toward "gentler" sounds were due to label influence, also the first album had 9 tunes, the most recent only 5. I suppose commissioned pieces (all 5) are generally longer, though. But I think it does have to do with personality - what we are getting is *more* MS. And I love it.

But while there's not something like Wyrgly or Bombshelter Beast on the recent CDs, there is plenty of high energy music, or rather, music that contains sections of high energy. Now I want to go back and hear that trumpet high B (I think on the Buleria...) - great stuff.

Mike

My mistake - the amazing unison high B is about 1 minute before the end of Dança Illusória.

Mike

Edited July 8, 2004 by Michael Fitzgerald

[A Lark Ascending]

If you can find a copy 'over there' I'd recommend casting an ear to:

Colin Towns speaks with his own accent but shares with Schneider a willingness to take jazz arranging to some very different places, again using the full range of orchestral possibilities. Like Schneider you hear the classical influences alongside the jazz. 'Nighthawks', based on the Hopper painting, and the gamelan influenced "Shining a light on god's footprints" are especially impressive.

He's a film composer who has poured money from that area into establishing a large jazz orchestra - The MasK Orchestra - and a record label that focuses on mainly UK jazz.

There are some samples on the Provocateur website:

http://www.provocateurrecords.co.uk/artist...ase=dreamingman

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Yes, I was interested to learn more about Towns when you first mentioned him. I'll keep an eye (and an ear or two) open.

And hello to fkimbrough, who I noticed checking out this thread. Beautiful job, as always.

Mike

[jazzbo]

Yes, Frank does wonderful work on this cd (no surprise!)

I listened to the second half of the cd again this morning before heading off to work. It sounded so beautiful! This is my favorite of hers so far.

I'm hoping that this new venture is a success. I mean I hope it doesn't hurt her that you can't go to cduniverse.com and order one of these, that those interested have to make an extra step or two, and have to find out about it beforehand. . . .

[A Lark Ascending]

Have just listened again and continue to be smitten by this gorgeous recording.

Another related point to earlier discussions is how Schneider seems unafraid of stillness. So much large group jazz is constantly 'busy'. There are moments on this recording where the world seems to stop.

I was especially struck by a point early in 'Buleria', just before that tremendous tenor solo, where the music seems to halt and darken and a lovely, hovering flute melody takes over the foreground. Any sense of movement is provided by the shifting harmonies behind in the orchestra. It reminded me a little of the moment in the slow movement of the Rodrigez Guitar Concerto where the music goes into a very dark, shaded area allowing for a short cadenza.

The second 'Romance' really caught me this time. There were points where it recalled a recording from a few months back by Scottish trumpet player, Colin Steele. I could just imagine this movement as a ballet.

Another disc that came to mind whilst listening was a very old Mike Westbrook LP from 1976 - 'Love/Dream Variations'. Quite unusual in Westbrook's output it was neither as wild as his earlier music nor as theatrical as the later pieces. Exclusively instrumental with a similar pastel feel to the Schneider. It always evokes to me the feelings you have when someone you care for disappears from your life - that bittersweet mix of memory and loss. Another disc unafraid to explore the gentler possibilities of jazz.

Oh, and I'd support the general enthusiasm for the piano throughout the recording. Beautifully played.

Edited July 8, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[fkimbrough]

Hi Michael, jazzbo and Bev, and thanks for your kind comments. Michael, I was surprised to see so many posts on this thread so soon - nice to see such positive responses to the music. I let Maria know about the thread, so she's seen it, and is very happy that people are enjoying it so much. She's the best, and works harder than anyone I know. I feel very lucky to have spent 12 years playing her music, and working with all the great musicians in the band - it's a singular experience for sure. For anyone who cares to hear the band, we'll be playing at Jazz Standard in NYC, September 23 - 26.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Hey, if you produce a masterpiece, people will talk about it!

And I think this qualifies. I've listened to it three more times driving around today and am starting to internalize the pieces. Agree with Lon that this is the zenith of MS records (thus far).

As far as I'm concerned, a new Maria Schneider album is BIG news. I don't think I'd be so eager to do the ArtistShare thing for someone who is putting out trio or quintet stuff. But every MS record is quite extraordinary.

The passage in the Soleá that Bev points to, with the Donny McCaslin solo is phenomenal. There are several things that make this work so well. The accelerando is smooth (if your band has a conductor, there's more likelihood it will do better on this than a bunch of players without a focal point). The multiple tonguing in the brass is damn tight, hooking up with the percussion (likewise tight). The rhythmic figures are shifting, unexpected, building tension. The sudden (and vertically precise) pause opens things up for a scorching run (fluently executed) into a primeval howl that is certainly one of the best musical expressions of grief or loneliness, which is what Soleá is about, if I recall my Sketches of Spain liner notes well. McCaslin just wails like a banshee - and it works so beautifully.

Obviously this is something that took a ton of rehearsal. Just coming up with the idea was brilliant - that accelerando/multiple tonguing/mixed meter thing doesn't happen in jazz. Then getting the band to do it (and you don't see it in jazz at least partly because you can't find players who can do it that well). Then getting the soloist to fit in with the established written parts (and I wonder how that process worked out - were sections of the solo pre-determined to fit better with the overall construction?).

I also wonder if I'm rehashing all the lecture/discussion stuff that I could be paying for on the website.

In other news, the Dança Illusória makes so much good use of modulation. I'll have to spend some more time checking out how that works. The move (is it up a whole step?) right before that trumpet climax makes all the difference. And check out how it's gotten to - it's preceded by a prolonged tag, sort of treading water, but building tension and developing the musical ideas before the unexpected modulation happens.

Mike

Edited July 9, 2004 by Michael Fitzgerald

[Michael Fitzgerald]

OK - here's the (half-baked) fruits of my investigation:

Dança Illusória

(end of piano intro)

G7b9 | | |

G7b9 | | | ||

(ensemble)

EbMaj7 | A13b9 | Ebm7b5 | Ab7

Dm7b5 | G7b9 | Cm (#5) | Bdim7

Am7b5 | | D7 | D7b9

G7b9 | | | ||

Cm7 | Cm7b5 | Cm7b5/F | F7

Bb | Bm7b5 E7 | Am7 | Am/G# Am/G

F#m7b5 | | B7 |

E7b9 | | | ||

(tag)

FMaj7 | E7 | Am Am/G# | xxx

xxx | xxx | Bm7b5/E | Abm7b5 G7

F#m7b5 | F7 E7 | Am Am/G# | xxx

FMaj7 | E7 || (next line)

Abm | | Abm7b5 | Db7

GbMaj7 | Gm7b5 C7 | Fm | Fm/E Fm/Eb

Dm7b5 | | G7 |

C7b9 | | | ||

(piano solo)

FMaj7 | B13b9 | Fm7b5 | Bb7

Em7b5 | A7b9 | Dm |

Bm11 | | E7 | Bbm/F

A7b9 | || (next line)

Dm7 | | Dm7b5 | G7

CmMaj7 | F#7b9 | Bm | Bm/A

Abm11 | | Db7 |

Gb7b9 | | GMaj7 | Gb7 ||

(tag)

Bm Bm/A# | A6 | Abm7b5 | GMaj7 Gb7

Bm Bm/A# | A6 | Abm7b5 | GMaj7 Gb7

Bm Bm/A# | A6 | Abm7b5 | GMaj7 Gb7 ||

[NEW KEY]

Bbm | Bbm7b5 | Bbm7b5/Eb | Eb7

Am7b5 | D7 | GmMaj7 | Gm/F

Em7b5 | | A7 |

D7b9 | | | ||

GmMaj7 | | Gm7b5 | C7

F#m7b5 | B7b9 | EmMaj7 | Em/D

C#m7b5 | | F#7 |

Bb7b9 | || (next line)

[NEW KEY] (trombone solo)

Em | Eb/E | Em7b5 | A7b9

Ebm7b5 | Ab7b9 | Dbm | Db/Cb

Bbm7b5 | | Eb7 |

Ab7b9 | | AMaj7 | Ab7b9

(tag)

Dbm Dbm/C | B6 | Bbm7b5 | A7 Ab7

AMaj7 | | Bbm7b5 | Ab7

Dbm Dbm/C | B6 | AMaj7 | Ab7 ||

Em | Em7b5 | Em7b5/A | A7b9

Ebm7b5 | Ab7b9 | Dbm | Dbm/Cb

Bbm7b5 | | Eb7 |

Ab7b9 | | |

Ab7b9 | || (next line)

(ensemble)

Dbm | | Dbm7b5 | Gb7

BmMaj7 | | Bbm7 | Bbm/Ab

Gm7b5 | | C7 |

F7b9 | || (next line)

Bbm | | Db/Eb | Eb7b9

Am7b5 | D7b9 | Gm | Gm/F

Em7b5 | | A7b9 |

D7b9 | | EbMaj7 | Am7b5 D7 ||

(tag)

Gm Gm/F# | Gm/F Em7b5 | EbMaj7 | D7

Em7b5 | D7 | Eb7 | Am7 D7

Gm Gm/F# | Gm/F Em7b5 | EbMaj7 | D7 ||

[NEW KEY]

Em | | Em7b5 | A7b9

Ebm7b5 | Ab7#5 | Dbm | Dbm/Cb

Bbm7b5 | | Eb7b9 |

Ab7b9 | | |

Ab7b9 | | |

(coda - Db pedal throughout)

E | Eb | |

D | Db | |

Dbm | Cm | Ab7sus4 | Db || FINE

The xxx is where I got lazy and forgot to go back to figure it out. But it's 4:30 AM - enough.

BTW, I was mistaken about the unison trumpet note. It's their B-flat (not B). It occurs on the Dbm in the section prior to the coda. And it kicks ass.

I interpret the coda to be a nice tip of the hat to Gil Evans (introduction to "My Ship").

I apologize in advance for any mistakes - like I said, half-baked. If you want it correct, go pay yer money at the Maria Schneider site and get real scores.

Mike

PS - too bad the damn tabs don't show up right. Between each | is one measure. Except when || marks the end of a section.

Edited July 9, 2004 by Michael Fitzgerald

[robviti]

it feels like i'm having a flashback to my arranging class at berklee in the 70's!

btw, i ordered two copies. thanks for the recommendation.

[DrJ]

Well, I took the plunge.

Only other Schneider I had previously was ALLEGRESSE, which is a beauty. First listenings left me a little cold, although there was no escaping the sophistication and brilliance of the composing - same reservations as Jim had about the players. But over time I've warmed to it.

[Claude]

All CDs will be Artist-Track items

Artist-Track

Artist-Track is a revolutionary new way for artists to market their work. Fans that purchase an Artist-Track item through artistShare are automatically registered as the owner of that item.

To ensure the authenticity and integrity of the item, ownership is tracked by our patent pending process and can be verified through our web interface.

If the fan decides to sell their Artist-Track item, ownership can be transferred to the buyer for a nominal transaction fee based on the percentage of the sale price. The transaction fee is paid back to the artist.

With Artist-Track the artist collects residual income on the resale of their art, the fan is guaranteed an original item, the item is much more difficult to pirate and buyers can authenticate their merchandise before buying.

Artist-Track auctions are an invaluable resource for both the artist and the collector.

Can somebody explain how this "Artist track" system actually works? How can they track a normal CD? Or is it just a voluntary system where the CD buyer are supposed to indicate that they sold their CD?

Edited July 9, 2004 by Claude

[James]

"Hey, if you produce a masterpiece, people will talk about it!"

AMEN Michael ----- I don't think that there is the *slightest* melodrama in describing Concert in the Garden as a masterpiece, or for that matter describing Maria Schneider as a visionary.

Yesterday in my car (for the third time) this recording brought me to tears. And I'm not talking just a few --- I'm talking about a gushing river. Maria's writing and the incredible execution of this astounding orchestra grabs my heart in a very deep place. I actually relate to Bev's comment on a feminine quality to the writing, while at the same time appreciating Michael's response re. Maria's personality. I believe this a situation where "both things are true."

Bev: "Perhaps Schneider appeals to the more classical side of me." Had to chuckle as I read this one. It is through my delight with Bill Holman's and Maria's writing that I've come to the horrible conclusion that I'm a closet classical fan!

I also feel the need to echo Michael's sentiments regarding Maria, the person. Warm, humble, down-to-earth. I had the opportunity to meet Maria backstage following a performance at the Orange County Performing Arts Center. The introduction was provided me by Rudi Wiest --- a huge Maria supporter and the mastermind behind the Days of Wine and Roses project. For the story behind this, go to www.germanwine.net. (And look for "The Maria Schneider Gift Pack" on the left hand side) This concert will go down as one of the very *highest* high points in my live music experience. Anyone who has the opportunity to hear this orchestra live MUST take the opportunity to do so. Maria's style in directing reflects both comments made describing "grace" and her love of dance. (And Jim - ya shoulda been there ----- they NAILED Hang Gliding!)

A statement I never thought I'd hear myself make:

There is accordion on this recording, and I really like it!

It's pretty clear why the members of this orchestra have stood by Maria for so long. With the opportunity to play music like this, with a talent pool like this, why not take it? Like others on this thread, I'm on board for whatever project Maria has up her sleeve next --- and I've felt that way since her first recording. Michael said "For me, I got no problem with the way the band swings ---- and it does swing to me,........" Agreed once again. At the sacred apex where magnificent vision meets great improvisation and incredible execution, there is The Maria Schneider Orchestra.

[Joe G]

I think I need to get up to speed on this stuff.

[A Lark Ascending]

'Concert in the Garden' has sent me back to listen to both 'Coming About' and 'Allegresse' TWICE this week!

I know exactly what people are talking about when they say they are made wet-eyed by points in the music.

I also hear the references to the Miles/Evans Spanish orchestrations mentioned above. 'Nocturne' on Allegresse also set off a quite different association - De Falla's piano and orchestra piece, 'Nights in the Gardens of Spain.' Again another beautifully still piece.

One of the things I love in this music is the way Schneider will create a delicious melody early on and then move away from it but then you start to hear it slowed right down in the orchestration supporting the foreground movement later on. This happens to glorious effect on 'Hang Gliding.'

Another strange comparison - one of the beauties of this music is the unusual, luminous harmonies. I think the fact that there are frequent slow or still moments allows these to be relished. They remind me of the sound world of what I've heard of Takemitsu.

Apologies for my clumsiness of expression but I've no technical understanding of music - Michael explains it so much better. Which is why I need to resort to comparisons with other music. No intent to suggest anything derivative at all. Maria Schneider strikes me as a musician who has drawn on a wide range of music and used it to produce a quite unique voice.

Edited July 11, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I have mine on order and I just can't wait. "Allegresse" was one of my favorites from a few years back, one that I go back to often. So lush... "Hang Gliding" really feels like hang gliding to me.

BTW, I once sat next to and chatted with Maria at Birdland a few years ago (we were both sitting at the bar). She was as great at conversation as she is at writing and arranging.

Later,

Kevin

[jazzbo]

Well. . . just went and ordered another copy for my Dad, who I know will like this one a LOT. Plus pointed one of my brothers to the website; he's going to have to order a copy. . . or else.

[Joe G]

I ordered mine.

[ghost of miles]

Mine came in the mail yesterday, and I'm hoping to listen to it tomorrow night. Didn't realize that Frank Kimbrough is on it, which is just another added bonus!

[MartyJazz]

Well. . . just went and ordered another copy for my Dad, who I know will like this one a LOT. Plus pointed one of my brothers to the website; he's going to have to order a copy. . . or else.

What a hip dad you have! I visited mine very recently and caught him watching an old Lawrence Welk rerun. I thought I raised him well, where did I go wrong?

[DrJ]

I've listened to the first couple tracks (VERY rapid shipping, great service) and it is pretty gorgeous and highly accomplished music. I do hear the Metheny likeness in the melodies although I'm sure it's more parallel development than any mutual influence. But this goes several steps further down the road than anything I've ever heard PM do in terms of thematic development and sophistication. These are ideas and themes that take many, many minutes to fully develop and unfold, and the sense of tension and release created as they do is nothing short of breathtaking. Thus, "quiet" music at times but I still find it visceral in its own way, if you're listening carefully. There are times when you start to think you'd like someone to let rip with a little more abandon, but I'm convinced that would undermine the whole enterprise. Not at all what this music is about.

I can't wait to listen to the rest and to revisit what I've heard already.

[jazzbo]

My dad is pretty hip, thanks to mine and more importantly my jazz loving and trumpet playing youngest brother (who has been around the nest longest) leading him to some new directions. Of course it was his love of Gershwin and swing (and a few odd Ellington lps) when we were youngsters that are responsible for some of our tastes. My brother has recently gotten him interested in Jobim's music and somehow I feel that this recording by Schneider will be one that he plays a lot. . . I'm eager find out!

I continue to wallow in the beauty of this release.

[ghost of miles]

What a hip dad you have! I visited mine very recently and caught him watching an old Lawrence Welk rerun. I thought I raised him well, where did I go wrong?

Not so fast, buster!

LawrenceWelkuncorked

[king ubu]

From the new Village Voice:

A perfectionist who takes pride in not being prolific contacts Evans and Mingus online

Dancing in Her Head

by Francis Davis

July 19th, 2004 11:15 PM

Duke Ellington's real instrument was his orchestra, Billy Strayhorn once said, echoing the maestro's own modest assessment of himself as a pianist. This was part truth, part subterfuge. A descendant of James P. Johnson and other Harlem ticklers for whom piano was an orchestra within hands' reach, Ellington was no slouch. Not every important jazz composer has also qualified as a seminal improviser like Benny Carter, Thelonious Monk, Wayne Shorter, Charles Mingus, or Ornette Coleman. But it's tough to name many who didn't play at all, even if some abandoned their horns after finding themselves on paper and a few sat themselves at a piano just to see to it that their music got performed frequently and performed right.

Maria Schneider's orchestra is her only instrument, which in addition to making Schneider something of a curiosity means it's big band or nothing for her. As a non-performer, she can't try out ideas on jobs with small groups, and although she did arrange a ballad on Phish's Undermind, she's apparently uninterested in the sort of work-for-hire that sustained Gil Evans prior to his LP collaborations with Miles Davis. Like Evans—her chief mentor, along with Bob Brookmeyer—Schneider is a perfectionist who takes pride in not being prolific: She was just as glad when she lost her regular Monday-night gig at a downtown club a few years ago, she told me after the fact, because not feeling pressured to introduce new material gave her the luxury of taking her time. Fortunately, her pieces are usually worth the wait—never more so than with the stunning new Concert in the Garden, her first release in four years and her fifth in 12 years, counting a 2000 live CD distributed by a winery.

Available only online, Concert in the Garden is a studio recording despite its title, taken from a poem by Octavio Paz. Given Schneider's tinkering with such dance forms as choro and flamenco—along with an "imaginary foxtrot" more evocative of Brazil than of Fred and Ginger—it's tempting to describe this as her Latin album. But Schneider's harmonic textures and rhythmic motifs suggest Evans's Sketches of Spain, Mingus's Tijuana Moods, and portions of his Black Saint and the Sinner Lady rather than anything by Eddie Palmieri or Chucho Valdés. Evans's residual influence is most discernible in the blend of nostalgia and existential chill on the aforementioned foxtrot, "Dança Illusoria," the final movement of a three-part suite that also includes "Choro Dançado" and "Pas de Deux," an improvised duet between Ingrid Jensen's trumpet and Charles Pillow's soprano that could be unfolding in midair. The resemblance to Mingus is probably coincidental, but it's impossible not to think of him instructing Charlie Mariano to play tears at a pivotal moment on Black Saint as you listen to Donny McCaslin wailing at length over a suspended chord on "Buleria, Solea y Rumba"—like Rich Perry's quicksilver tenor solo on "Choro Dançado" and the running of the bulls at the end, an exciting moment on an album that spills over with them.

That I should mention Mingus along with Evans will give you an idea of the company Schneider now belongs in. The soloists here convey an immediacy that was frequently lacking on her earlier recordings, which is to her credit as well as theirs; she's learned how to showcase improvisers, perhaps the truest measure of a jazz composer's skills. Another sign of growth is her inspired use of Luciana Souza's voice as a kind of highlighting pen on three numbers, which allows the ear to isolate the melodies from a network of competing harmonic details (and Schneider's unconventional groupings of horns across sections sing so readily on their own you sometimes imagine you're hearing Souza when she's not there). The title opener is the only performance that wants for momentum, although it boasts especially imaginative writing for accordion and low brass, along with shapely, reflective solos by pianist Frank Kimbrough and guitarist Ben Monder. Having danced only in her head on the CD, Schneider added flamenco dancer La Conja to "Buleria, Solea y Rumba" for her JVC concert at the Kaye Playhouse last month.

La Conja's crisp handclaps and precise body language emboldened Schneider's rhythms and made them more vivid, though the trade-off was reducing the musicians to onlookers for a short stretch. The normally judicious Ben Ratliff gushed that a new piece inspired by a Kandinsky painting of intersecting circles conveyed "what it feels like to be intersecting circles" (italics in original). Sounds like something on Sesame Street, but I agree with what Ratliff was getting at—Schneider's musical subjectivity, which reveals itself most clearly in the autobiographical strain running through her pieces, many of which revolve around childhood memories. I hesitate to label these feminine characteristics, because few jazz composers were more subjective than Mingus, and Ellington never shied away from autobiography (except in Music Is My Mistress). On the other hand, I doubt a sideman ever asked Mingus for a date during a set, as happened to Schneider years ago, or that Ellington ever broke down and sobbed onstage, as Schneider did at Kaye in announcing a piece dedicated to a recently deceased friend. When prompting from the piano failed to elicit the exact tempo he desired from his band, Ellington would stand up and conduct with his hips. We haven't yet progressed to the point where an attractive woman like Schneider could wiggle hers without being accused of exploiting her wiles. Besides, she's much too inhibited a conductor to serve as an audience's onstage proxy, as Ellington happily did. And yet she's no less forcefully there in her music than he was, even though not one note issues directly from her.

Sounds like I got to get that disc... well, I actually knew that by the time I read the very first posts in this thread....

ubu

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I also picked up the University of Miami CD Romances that has the premiere recording of three of the five pieces from Concert In The Garden. Very interesting to hear the differences - some in the orchestration (no vocals, for example), some in the accompaniment (different rhythm section feel), some in the solos (obviously). The CD also includes another earlier Maria Schneider piece called "Lately" which is otherwise only available on the wine CD.

Mike