May COVID 19 Poll

[JSngry]

Just now, bigbandrecord said:

 Yes, I believe and know it's all a hoax.   

For the record -  if you persist in this "it's all a hoax" thing, you will be flagged as a spammer, if for no other reason than hoaxes that involved provable deaths from provable causes don't fit any definition of "hoax".

Once you are so flagged, you will still be able to read the board, and to update your signature. To have full privileges restored, you will have to go directly the board's owner, Jim Alfredson and make your case to him.

You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want to believe about this, and to speak it wherever it is allowed. As it pertains to this "hoax" notion, this is not one of those places.

This is the second time we've dealt with this on this board and on a COVID-19 thread.

Please confirm - in this thread - that you have read and understand this and also advise if you intend on pursuing this line of thought on this forum so that moderation can proceed accordingly.

 

[felser]

12 hours ago, bigbandrecord said:

 I am not a health care worker, therefore I'm not responsible for other peoples health.

Civic Responsibility is defined as the "responsibility of a citizen" (Dictionary.com). It is comprised of actions and attitudes associated with democratic governance and social participation. ... Citizenship means "a productive, responsible, caring and contributing member of society." (ibid.).

[JSngry]

Please, let's not devolve into the rabbit hole of defining good citizenship. It's a generally understood notion that is not universally embraced. So be it.

Now, COVID news. Not until yesterday had I personally known anybody impacted, but sure enough, I heard from a co-worker who had lost two family memebrs, and currently has two in the hospital.

[Brad]

A notion not embraced in this country but embraced in other countries.

That's pretty rough on your colleague. Hope the other two pull through. 

[Justin V]

1 hour ago, bigbandrecord said:

 You know In the south where I live there are ANTI-MASK wearing laws on the books stemming from the civil rights days.  Every time I go to the grocery stores and see all these people(mostly old people) wearing masks it looks like a KKK rally.

  If it ever came to that here in NC,  I would go get a medical exemption/doctors note and then I will not have to wear a mask in order to get into the grocery stores......problem solved.

Do you honestly believe that your doctor would give you an exemption?  On what grounds?  If he declined to do so and cited concern for the coronavirus, would you switch doctors?

How do you feel about vaccines?

[Dan Gould]

3 hours ago, Brad said:

Ignore him, he’s probably one of those complaining about “mah rights.”

The founding document identified certain inalienable rights that justified our independence, and ultimately the form our government took to protect those rights.

Acting as if concern about rights is the trait of mouth-breathers is not a good look, Brad.

(None of this is to say anything about bigbandrecord and his views. For him I have only the devout wish that karma does what it ought to do.)

[Justin V]

2 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

The founding document identified certain inalienable rights that justified our independence, and ultimately the form our government took to protect those rights.

Acting as if concern about rights is the trait of mouth-breathers is not a good look, Brad.

(None of this is to say anything about bigbandrecord and his views. For him I have only the devout wish that karma does what it ought to do.)

What would karma entail here?  If he were to contract covid, he would likely spread it to other people due to being without a mask.  I wouldn't wish a highly contagious, deadly disease on anyone.  

[Brad]

39 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

The founding document identified certain inalienable rights that justified our independence, and ultimately the form our government took to protect those rights.

Acting as if concern about rights is the trait of mouth-breathers is not a good look, Brad.

(None of this is to say anything about bigbandrecord and his views. For him I have only the devout wish that karma does what it ought to do.)

Rights don’t exist in a vacuum Dan. Although the First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech you can’t go into a crowded movie theatre and yell “fire!”  In such a case societal concerns outweigh freedom of speech. We are in such a predicament now where rights cannot be absolute and must be tempered to serve society. We have seen this before with the so called right to bear arms where societal interests are disregarded in favor of some so called rights.

Oddly, other countries don’t seem to have these problems when public safety is paramount. 

[AllenLowe]

I once yelled "theater" in a crowded fire. That's my right as an American.

But all seriousness aside, as Steve Allen used to say, if we had paid attention in January, locked everything down, helped people to survive economically through the quarantine, then we would be very close to normal life. Denmark did this, sanely and humanely, and they are very close to normal.

[medjuck]

And If those right were available to the Brits they would have had the right to keep their lights on during the Blitz. 

[JSngry]

A Covid-19 Thread...if you can keep it.

[Brad]

21 minutes ago, JSngry said:

A Covid-19 Thread...if you can keep it.

What is the issue? People are discussing the proper balance between the responsibilities and obligations of government to protect its people and the right of people to object as to how those responsibilities and obligations are discharged. 

[felser]

Our Covid-19 threads come and go.  We can name them like Zappa used to name those "Play Yer Guitar" albums (" Return of the Son of Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar" ,etc.).   

[JSngry]

24 minutes ago, Brad said:

What is the issue? People are discussing the proper balance between the responsibilities and obligations of government to protect its people and the right of people to object as to how those responsibilities and obligations are discharged. 

2 hours ago, Brad said:

Rights don’t exist in a vacuum Dan. Although the First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech you can’t go into a crowded movie theatre and yell “fire!”  In such a case societal concerns outweigh freedom of speech. We are in such a predicament now where rights cannot be absolute and must be tempered to serve society. We have seen this before with the so called right to bear arms where societal interests are disregarded in favor of some so called rights.

Oddly, other countries don’t seem to have these problems when public safety is paramount. 

I sincerely hope that any discussion on this board which invokes the 2nd Amendment does not turn political.

Because, you know, discussions don't exist in a vacuum either, Brad.

 

 

[Brad]

13 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I sincerely hope that any discussion on this board which invokes the 2nd Amendment does not turn political.

Because, you know, discussions don't exist in a vacuum either, Brad.

Quite true, it’s a difficult road to hoe.  My comment was not meant to have a discussion on the Second Amendment but as an illustration of what I was referring to: appropriate balance between rights and societal obligations.  

[Larry Kart]

16 minutes ago, Brad said:

Quite true, it’s a difficult road to hoe.  My comment was not meant to have a discussion on the Second Amendment but as an illustration of what I was referring to: appropriate balance between rights and societal obligations.  

One hoes rows (of plants, vegetables, etc.), note roads.

[felser]

13 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

One hoes rows (of plants, vegetables, etc.), not roads.

[Larry Kart]

Per this article that Dan Gould linked to:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/dont-wear-mask-yourself/610336/

I'm thinking that this moderator (that is me)  is soon going to go back and delete every post that says that  wearing masks is dubious  or dangerous or impinges on one's freedom. Unless Jim A. or Jim S. tells me not to and why,  I'll do that within the next hour. You anti-mask guys are putting others' health at risk, and there is no evidence that wearing a mask does any harm to you. Only harm it's done to me is that taking off my mask carelessly can flip my expensive hearing aids out of my ears.

 

[JSngry]

Let them stand, please. If/when a certain poster gets flagged, I want everything on the record, Rudy. ALL of it.

[Brad]

2 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

One hoes rows (of plants, vegetables, etc.), not roads.

Typo but hey it’s a mixed metaphor 

[Dan Gould]

14 hours ago, JSngry said:

I sincerely hope that any discussion on this board which invokes the 2nd Amendment does not turn political.

Because, you know, discussions don't exist in a vacuum either, Brad.

 

 

Which is why I haven't responded to Brad bringing the second amendment in.

But I will say that differences in societal responses to government edicts may have a lot to do with the fact that this country was "conceived in liberty."

[Brad]

The phrase “conceived in liberty” is from the Gettysburg Address. However, it was Lincoln himself who tamped down on certain rights and liberties during the Civil War such as the writ of habeas corpus because he recognized that certain rights had to give way to the greater good.

See below for an article on the suspension of the writ and his fight with Chief Justice Taney (known infamously for the Dred Scott decision): Lincoln and Taney’s great writ showdown

After the Merryman incident (the one that led to his confrontation with CJ Taney), “Lincoln suspended the writ in other situations, and he received approval from Congress in March 1863 to suspend the writ for the duration of the conflict when ‘the public safety may require it.’”

There is a good book on this topic which I purchased many years ago but only briefly started, Lincoln and the Triumph of the Nation: Constitutional Conflict during the Civil War by Mark Neely.  Might be a good time to look at it again. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Brad

[JSngry]

Alright, that hole has been rowed, let's all move on.

[Brad]

3 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Alright, that hole has been rowed, let's all move on.

As Larry might have said said, “hoe”

I understand the need to move on and will do so but it’s an important question: liberties vs obligations. Have you seen this article regarding Texas, Businesses Chafing Under Covid-19 Lockdowns Turn to Armed Defiance

[JSngry]

Yes, I have seen that, and no, I will not be discussing it here.