Corrupted Audio Files - Ever Experienced This?

[Teasing the Korean]

We have thousands of CDs, and around 12 or 13 years ago, I began backing up all of them using the XLD program.  XLD rips accurately and indicates if any errors occurred in the ripping process. 

There have been at least two occasions over the years in which a particular track would not play, and I had to back up the track again to replace the corrupt file.  

As XLD provides a readout indicating if any tracks were not properly extracted, I can only assume that these two files became corrupt over the years, after they were accurately ripped. 

I realize that two tracks out of thousands of albums is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I wonder if anyone else has experienced this or has any insights.  Over the years, I have copied files from one external drive to another.  While these should in theory be exact clones, I wonder if the damage occurs during this copying process.  

Just one more reminder that no single format is perfect.

[Dan Gould]

I usually use my Goldwave audio editing software to extract Wav or FLAC files from CDRs (and sometimes Redbook CDs) for sharing with others.  What Goldwave doesn't read, I have some free audio ripper program that has to my recollection never failed to extract to whatever format I want/need.

So I would not assume you have corrupted files and would at least consider trying some other "ripping" software first before you chalk it up to a handful of files that have degraded.

[rostasi]

1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Over the years, I have copied files from one external drive to another.  While these should in theory be exact clones, I wonder if the damage occurs during this copying process.

It's very possible. Most of the time, yes, information is smoothly transferred, 
but there can be the occasional glitch that happens due to very small electronic or mechanical interruptions in the process - especially with very large quantities being transferred off of a mechanical disc. I've moved literally over a million tunes from drives and am not surprised when a few, here and there, don't completely make it intact. If you need replacements on those two, just let me know.

[Teasing the Korean]

@rostasi @Dan Gould Thank you both.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I have had this happen many times over the years. One thing I've noticed is that seems to happen more often when copying from/to a mechanical HD. It doesn't happen as frequently with solid state HDs. But the thing with SSD drives is that they should be powered up if you want to avoid data corruption. I would not backup a hard drive to an SSD and toss it in a drawer somewhere.

I'd also add that a few of the corrupted files I found were not the result of a copy process but were created with those glitches. Even with Exact Audio Copy, stuff gets through. Another thing I've learned is it's better to minimize computer activity while ripping my CDs. I think most of the glitchy files were created while I continued to do my thing on the computer. The biggest problems seemed to occur when I played music files while ripping. These days, I shut down any music player app and stop surfing the web while I rip.

Edited March 10 by Kevin Bresnahan

[rostasi]

^^^^^^ Yes, this! ^^^^^^

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I have had this happen many times over the years. One thing I've noticed is that seems to happen more often when copying from/to a mechanical HD. It doesn't happen as frequently with solid state HDs. But the thing with SSD drives is that they should be powered up if you want to avoid data corruption. I would not backup a hard drive to an SSD and toss it in a drawer somewhere.

I'd also add that a few of the corrupted files I found were not the result of a copy process but were created with those glitches. Even with Exact Audio Copy, stuff gets through. Another thing I've learned is it's better to minimize computer activity while ripping my CDs. I think most of the glitchy files were created while I continued to do my thing on the computer. The biggest problems seemed to occur when I played music files while ripping. These days, I shut down any music player app and stop surfing the web while I rip.

Thanks for this.  Not sure what you mean by mechanical vs. solid state HDs.  Do you mean powered?  I am using non-powered external drives that plug into a USB adapter that goes into my Mac laptop.  I have had to upgrade the external drives over the years.  An indicator that a drive will fail is that I can't search its contents.  When this occurs, that is when I get new drives and transfer files. 

I should add here that I am not a particularly tech-savvy person on the planet.

I should also add that I listen to the albums I back up using Apple Music played through a Bose docking station. I wonder if Apple Music can be part of the problem as the interface. 

Edited March 10 by Teasing the Korean

[rostasi]

An SSD has no moving parts.

An HDD:

Different forms of SSDs:

 

 

The Apple Music interface has very little (if anything) to do with the transfer process going haywire
(unless you have a situation where you're unable to listen to any of your files thru Apple Music).

The amount of music I've successfully transferred from drives to Apple Music:

Edited March 10 by rostasi

[Teasing the Korean]

9 minutes ago, rostasi said:

An SSD has no moving parts.

Thanks.  So I am using WD drives - My Passport for Mac:

https://www.storagereview.com/review/wd-my-passport-for-mac-review

and WD Elements:

https://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Elements-Portable-External/dp/B06W55K9N6/ref=asc_df_B06W55K9N6/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309779531175&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8919762082056877177&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9052965&hvtargid=pla-301232220719&mcid=f501c952fcd23ddbb5d2167fd70494ee&ref=&adgrpid=62412137260&gclid=CjwKCAiA0bWvBhBjEiwAtEsoW04Pwh8l3l5BNXYDmcWZxjVXGAP8k5NPUvx-M_3gUdIQCyiNeRpm8xoC1A4QAvD_BwE&th=1

Are these the right or wrong kind?

[rostasi]

It's not really a "right" or "wrong" thing. It's whatever fits your needs.
It's just good to know what the differences are. SSDs are especially good
for quickly powering up your computer if you're anxious about such things.

As you'll notice in that WD link you sent, there's an SSD version
and when you click on it, you'll see that it costs almost twice as much,
so that's sometimes a deterrent to some folks. 😄

BTW, none of my stuff is currently on SSDs - only because I'm
waiting for the prices to go lower - coupled with the gleem I
have in my eye for finally getting a new computer soon.
Also, I'd have the (completist) feeling that I'd have to port all
of this music over too, and that's something I'm not ready to do yet.

...but, that Passport is nice and small (I use one) and most
of my other HDDs are big ol' clunky WDs that work great!

Edited March 10 by rostasi

[Teasing the Korean]

30 minutes ago, rostasi said:

It's not really a "right" or "wrong" thing. It's whatever fits your needs.
It's just good to know what the differences are. SSDs are especially good
for quickly powering up your computer if you're anxious about such things.

Thank you.  But it appears that the ones I have are not SSDs, right?

Edited March 10 by Teasing the Korean

[rostasi]

 

[mjzee]

SSD = solid state disc (i.e. all chips).  HDD or EHD = external hard drive (i.e. spinning disc read by magnetic arm).  HDD/EHD are far more mechanical and break easier (if your hard drive ever fell off your desk, you just shortened its life by a few years).  I've found that if an HDD/EHD starts becoming glitchy, it's time to replace it and transfer its contents.  I'm lately moving to SSDs - prices keep coming down, so the price differential between SSDs and HDD/EHDs is easier to swallow.  Also, my last WD My Passport failed in less than a year, so, factoring in the replacement cost of buying a new EHD and the inconvenience caused by the failure, the price difference isn't too bad.  Look for Crucial SSDs - work great with Macs.

[Teasing the Korean]

2 minutes ago, mjzee said:

SSD = solid state disc (i.e. all chips).  HDD or EHD = external hard drive (i.e. spinning disc read by magnetic arm).  HDD/EHD are far more mechanical and break easier (if your hard drive ever fell off your desk, you just shortened its life by a few years).  I've found that if an HDD/EHD starts becoming glitchy, it's time to replace it and transfer its contents.  I'm lately moving to SSDs - prices keep coming down, so the price differential between SSDs and HDD/EHDs is easier to swallow.  Also, my last WD My Passport failed in less than a year, so, factoring in the replacement cost of buying a new EHD and the inconvenience caused by the failure, the price difference isn't too bad.  Look for Crucial SSDs - work great with Macs.

Thank you!

Would you guys suggest having two SSDs, in the event that one fails?  I typically have two sometimes even three external drives for this reason.

[T.D.]

I was once told by a tech guy that if SSDs fail, they "fail hard" and the data tends not to be recoverable. This was on the occasion of replacing a computer internal hard drive that had somehow failed by developing some "bad spots" (but almost all data was recovered).

I've no idea whether that assertion about SSDs is true. 🙄

[rostasi]

My use of drives is probably "unconventional" because I never move them
from their location and the thought of replacing 2 dozen+ TB of drives with
SSDs would have me at the local 7-11 buying lottery tickets.
As is said "your mileage may vary": I use my Passport to run a little
"in house" version of a personal radio station that runs continuously -
often, all day - and it's been that way since January 19, 2021.
In other words, everything stays put and is never moved around.

Yes, always have backups no matter what drives you decide on.
At home ... at a friend's house ... and somewhere "in the cloud."
I have a Backblaze account that's absolutely wonderful and cheap
that allows me to copy and download instantly or, if desired, sent to
me on 8TB (HDD) drives.

Edited March 10 by rostasi

[Daniel A]

I have all my files on two HDD:s in a Synology NAS which are mirrored, so that a failure in one drive would not cause immediate loss of data. The NAS is in turn mirrored to a cloud storage. I have not had any files become corrupted yet.

Edited March 10 by Daniel A

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I have 3 Samsung 1TB SSD drives. They're pretty cheap and have good ratings. I will say that none of mine have ever failed. I have my music files backed up onto all 3 of them. Two of them are attached to my tower PC that I leave on at all times. The 3rd one is attached to my Raspberry Pi mini-computer that I use as a music server on one of my listening systems. This mini-computer is also left on all the time.

I also have an internal 1 TB HDD that is a mirror of my main internal HDD. I did not go with a RAID configuration. Lazy or techno-averse? I've never gone RAID yet. I also have 3 HDDs in external cases that have all of my music on them but they are stored in various locations in the horrible event that I have a house fire. External HDDs use magnetic material to store the 1's & 0's and don't need to be powered up to stay in that state. Of course, sitting idle for years isn't good for the mechanics either.

[Teasing the Korean]

18 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I have 3 Samsung 1TB SSD drives. They're pretty cheap and have good ratings. I will say that none of mine have ever failed. I have my music files backed up onto all 3 of them. Two of them are attached to my tower PC that I leave on at all times. The 3rd one is attached to my Raspberry Pi mini-computer that I use as a music server on one of my listening systems. This mini-computer is also left on all the time.

Is there an advantage to having them powered at all times?  

[mjzee]

3 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Would you guys suggest having two SSDs, in the event that one fails?  I typically have two sometimes even three external drives for this reason.

I think you need to devise an overall backup schema, which would depend largely on your level of crazyness/paranoia/assessment of the odds of something bad happening.  I've not otherwise seen the assertion that an SSD should be always plugged in, but that's not to say that's not true.  So assuming it is true, any offsite backup should reside on EHDs.  You also have to figure out a backup schedule that would fit your lifestyle.

I have my music on a 4 TB SSD, with a backup drive on another 4 TB SSD, both of which remain plugged into my iMac.  My backup software (SuperDuper) is set up to do an automatic nightly backup from the main drive to the backup.  I also have a 4 TB EHD which I plug in monthly, perform a backup, then disconnect and store somewhere.  Finally, I have yet another 4 TB EHD to which I backup twice a year and store in yet a different location.  I've debated whether that's overkill, but decided that, considering how much I paid for that music and the work I put into ripping the music (or downloading) and correcting the data, it's prudent.

Here's how I view it: Let's say a music file corrupts on my main music drive (don't know how it happened; let's just go with the possibility).  Overnight, that corrupt file will backup onto my backup drive and corrupt the copy there.  However, if I catch the problem within the month, I can access the monthly backup.  If I don't catch it within the month but I do within 6 months, I can access the bi-yearly backup.  I've therefore eliminated most (not all, but most) of the risk of losing the data.

[rostasi]

That sounds like an excellent plan. I figure that it's better to be on the side of "overkill" than under.
Locally, I have Time Machine backups done automagically every hour going back to Nov. 24, 2022.
Backblaze always rotates my stuff every year - which is more than enough time to retrieve anything
that goes wAcKy. What I'd (probably) ultimately want to do is get reasonably priced 8TB SSDs and
then I can restore Backblaze data onto them and send the original Backblaze drive back for a refund.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

22 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Is there an advantage to having them powered at all times?  

From https://www.easeus.com/resource/does-ssd-need-power.html

"Overall, if SSD is not getting power for several years, it may lose data. According to research, an SSD can retain your data for a minimum of 2-5 Years without any power supply. Some SSD manufacturers also claim that SSD can save data without a regular power supply for around 15 to 20 years."

I'd rather not find out that the researchers were right so...

BTW - I just left Analog Devices after 21 years, with almost 40 years in the electronics industry, so I always err on the side of caution when it comes to volatile memory. I've had EPROMs lose their data enough times to realize that it's not something I want to happen to my music files.

FWIW, this is also true for USB or thumb drives. They use the same technology as SSD drives so they should not be used for long term storage. They are even less reliable than external SSDs and I have had the data in a thumb drive go bad after being in a drawer for a few years.

[Teasing the Korean]

3 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

From https://www.easeus.com/resource/does-ssd-need-power.html

"Overall, if SSD is not getting power for several years, it may lose data. According to research, an SSD can retain your data for a minimum of 2-5 Years without any power supply. Some SSD manufacturers also claim that SSD can save data without a regular power supply for around 15 to 20 years."

I'd rather not find out that the researchers were right so...

BTW - I just left Analog Devices after 21 years, with almost 40 years in the electronics industry, so I always err on the side of caution when it comes to volatile memory. I've had EPROMs lose their data enough times to realize that it's not something I want to happen to my music files.

FWIW, this is also true for USB or thumb drives. They use the same technology as SSD drives so they should not be used for long term storage. They are even less reliable than external SSDs and I have had the data in a thumb drive go bad after being in a drawer for a few years.

Thanks!  So I may invest in a couple of these when I have to replace my existing drives.