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[Aggie87]

3 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Nobody was banned from the game for their actions ... its a mark against the championship they won, and I guess directly against Alex Cora (don't know the extent of Bregman's involvement, did he come up with the idea?) ... players move on - and most fans move on.  Is your attitude common in Texas? They cheated, f-em for all eternity? 

 

This seems to me an overreaction.   I'd have a harder time rooting for certain players, like if Aaron Bleeping Boone had signed with the Red Sox after 2003, or Reggie in the 80s. 

To be clear Aggie, I didn't "condemn" the Astros for cheating ... they got away with something that other teams have also done, like the Bobby Thompson homerun.  I don't really think about the fact that they cheated in a very long time.

I think for many people all around the country that 2017 Astros WS championship is tainted forever, and deserves an asterisk placed next to it (like the White Sox's cheating in 1919).  For years afterward the Astros team was booed at most other ballparks.  It has probably died down now for the most part (although maybe Altuve still gets booed occasionally, I don't know).

I was a huge fan, and the cheating really upset me .  I had even met a number of Astros - two WS game winning pitchers from that year (Joe Musgrove and Chris Devenski), as well as numerous Astros from previous generations (Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott and many others back when I lived in Texas).  

Both AJ Hinch and Cora served 1 year suspensions from MLB for overseeing the cheating.  I think of both of them as cheaters as well.  Hinch is obviously with Detroit now, and his team has the  best overall record in baseball. 

I don't know - it seems like many people view this as you do - it was bad when the Astros cheated (and many no longer hold it against the current team), but it's ok if the cheating players end up on the team I root for, and I don't care that they cheated.

I have problems with cheating in most sports - Pete Rose betting on games he coached in, Tom Brady & Bill Belichick's Spygate and Inflategate, Lance Armstrong doping, the PED era in baseball, etc.  Maybe it's a "me" problem as much as anything.  

 

[Dan Gould]

4 hours ago, Aggie87 said:

I think for many people all around the country that 2017 Astros WS championship is tainted forever, and deserves an asterisk placed next to it (like the White Sox's cheating in 1919).  For years afterward the Astros team was booed at most other ballparks.  It has probably died down now for the most part (although maybe Altuve still gets booed occasionally, I don't know).

I was a huge fan, and the cheating really upset me .  I had even met a number of Astros - two WS game winning pitchers from that year (Joe Musgrove and Chris Devenski), as well as numerous Astros from previous generations (Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott and many others back when I lived in Texas).  

Both AJ Hinch and Cora served 1 year suspensions from MLB for overseeing the cheating.  I think of both of them as cheaters as well.  Hinch is obviously with Detroit now, and his team has the  best overall record in baseball. 

I don't know - it seems like many people view this as you do - it was bad when the Astros cheated (and many no longer hold it against the current team), but it's ok if the cheating players end up on the team I root for, and I don't care that they cheated.

I have problems with cheating in most sports - Pete Rose betting on games he coached in, Tom Brady & Bill Belichick's Spygate and Inflategate, Lance Armstrong doping, the PED era in baseball, etc.  Maybe it's a "me" problem as much as anything.  

 

I think it is a "you" problem - my friend was a very big baseball fan, and when the players struck and the World Series was cancelled, he swore off baseball forever, and I do mean forever.  I mention him because to me, your issue is akin to him telling me that I shouldn't watch or care about baseball anymore, the same way he doesn't watch or care.  They messed up, they suck, how can you watch?

Rose didn't cheat, he leaped over a bright red line every player and coach is supposed to know and respect: No Betting. I don't recall any evidence of coaching decisions that were designed to make the Reds less likely to win a particular game.

The PED era - I would absolutely have objected to any of the identified miscreants signing with the Cubs or Sox and gone looking for a new favorite team.  Cheating for personal fame, inflated salaries and ill-earned spots in the record books ... that to me is unforgiveable.

Teams have been stealing signs since forever.  I don't know what players were happy participants in their system or if any had qualms. As for Hinch and Cora, do you think their success is predicated on having done something once that was "cheating"?  They can't exist in baseball because of it?  They didn't apologize enough over it?

Honestly it never occurred to me that I should have judged the Bregman signing based on him being a member of that team, as opposed to judging it on the basis of WTF, you already have a guy at 3B who is signed for 12 years.

[sonnymax]

Well Dan, I hope that ’fuck’ is a flying one. Rafaella’s walk-off HR was sensational, extending the Sox’ winning streak to 8.

[JSngry]

Sign stealing:

 

[Dan Gould]

Torn ACL for the rookie Dobbins who showed some pretty decent stuff and poise this year.  Need for starting help and relievers is getting extreme. Especially with Tanner Houk suffering from suckitis after his supposed breakthru campaign, and at the end of his allowed rehab stint, and Slaten not even throwing yet after his supposed dead arm situation at the end of May.

[Milestones]

Did not watch much of the All-Star Game, which is normally the case these days.

Not a bad game, though, with the American League fighting and coming back as they did.

Too bad it was ruined by the silliness of the "swing off."  A home run derby to decide a game--really?  Kyle Schwarber as MVP--really?  This was not an award for playing baseball.  It was for "lob me the ball and I'll hit it a mile."

 

 

 

[Dan Gould]

I knew the Sox had a tough row to hoe coming out of the break with the Cubs, Phils and Dodgers (first two on the road) but now I see that they have the toughest remaining schedule in the entire American League, and they finish the season with a tough stretch too:  Rays, Blue Jays, Tigers (and also first two series on the road).

If they somehow reach the playoffs they will have earned it.

[jlhoots]

Brewers sweep Dodgers again.

[JSngry]

I've watched a few Brewers games lately and might start watching regularly-ish.

I'm sending a vibe developing!

[jlhoots]

Yes - go Brewers!!

[GA Russell]