John Coltrane - OM

[Pete C]

after buying "live in seattle" i am freakin' scared of all later trane

You have to hear Stellar Regions. It's brilliant, and much more focused, IMO, than most of the post-classic-quartet Trane. I love Pharoah, but I can't get into most of the Pharoah/Trane combination. I do wish the Olatunji Concert was in good sound. The percussion thing that's going on in Ogunde suggests a whole other compelling Afro-Caribbean meets energy direction (though one that was toyed with in Kulu Se Mama).

I just can't handle the later versions of MFT.

[Soulstation1]

the only impulse trane i have is

live in seattle

the two with duke and hartman

a cdr of ballads from my sister

[John B]

the only impulse trane i have is

live in seattle

the two with duke and hartman

a cdr of ballads from my sister

you should correct this asap. If you are not sure you want to explore the later, more "out" trane there is still a wealth of fantastic discs on Impulse. Start with these:

A Love Supreme

Ballads

Crescent

Complete Village Vanguard

First Meditations

Ballads

then, check out these three, which are freer, but still essential:

Stellar Regions

Interstellar Space

Meditations

Edited April 13, 2004 by John B

[king ubu]

ss1 - you might try "Sunship" for post-classic, or transitional Trane. It's one of his most beautiful and accessible dates, in my opinion!

And add "Live at Birdland" and "Quartet Plays... Chim Chim Cheree etc" to John B's list (he seems to be quite fond of "Ballads" ). Also the Impulse "Coltrane" (there's one one Prestige with the same title) is very good! There's a 2CD edition of it (as there is of "Ballads" and of "Love Supreme").

Simon, AB - thanks a lot for this very enlightening discussion! Should find the time soon to listen to Seattle and Om again. It's been years (five at least), since I listened to Om last.

ubu

[Guest ariceffron]

yes indeed Jstyngrty-- if u have the liner notes (or gatefold lp) take a gander at the story inside- its totally based on that. hmmm---just goes to show you how different interpertatoins of the same thing come about!!!

[AfricaBrass]

ss1 - you might try "Sunship" for post-classic, or transitional Trane. It's one of his most beautiful and accessible dates, in my opinion!

And add "Live at Birdland" and "Quartet Plays... Chim Chim Cheree etc" to John B's list (he seems to be quite fond of "Ballads" ). Also the Impulse "Coltrane" (there's one one Prestige with the same title) is very good! There's a 2CD edition of it (as there is of "Ballads" and of "Love Supreme").

Simon, AB - thanks a lot for this very enlightening discussion! Should find the time soon to listen to Seattle and Om again. It's been years (five at least), since I listened to Om last.

ubu

Thanks Ubu! I'm enjoying this discussion also. Plus, I like SUNSHIP also.

If there is anyone out there who hasn't heard STELLAR REGIONS, I agree with Pete C and highly recommend it. Those last Coltrane recordings (to me) have an amazing depth to them.

[AfricaBrass]

My taste leans more towards the material on Sun Ship and Live in Japan. Only listened to OM once; perhaps it is time to revisit...

I never have enjoyed LISTENING to OM as much as the other albums, but I still find it to be an interesting experiment.

[7/4]

I never have enjoyed LISTENING to OM as much as the other albums, but I still find it to be an interesting experiment.

Same here.

As for Sellar Regions, I got it when it came out, listened to it and filed it. I started to listen to it a few weeks ago and I sure love it.

Edited April 13, 2004 by 7/4

[John B]

as someone once suggested on the old board, Om makes for great romantic dinner music.

[AfricaBrass]

as someone once suggested on the old board, Om makes for great romantic dinner music.

Later period Coltrane really pisses off my wife.

[John B]

AB, I'm a huge Trane fan, but what you hear on "Om" is real evil spirits at work, sad to say. And the silly poem that they chant is a piece of eastern religious garbage related to hinduism etc. Yechh! I regret that Trane got involved with that, but, as the Lord said, the blind lead the blind and both fall into the ditch.

Would you view it differently if it were about Christianity?

he's correct. If you look at the sleeve of an original vinyl copy of Om, "evil spirits" are credited with tenor sax, soprano sax, vocals and some post-production work. Just as Blue Note has its RVG series of remasters I predict that Impulse will soon have its "Evil Spirits" line of remastered classic albums.

on a related note, I read somewhere that the original poem for a Love Supreme was just a text version of the McDonalds "special sauce, lettuce, cheese" Big Mac song.

[John B]

as someone once suggested on the old board, Om makes for great romantic dinner music.

Later period Coltrane really pisses off my wife.

Later period Coltrane is in my "do not play at home without headphones on" section.

I did catch my wife humming along with Albert Ayler once, but it was Love Cry, so I didn't read too much into it.

[Simon Weil]

I'm really going to drop myself in it now. But anyway...I think Om is supposed to be this really intense spiritual experience, rather than an enjoyable listening to Jazz one. I mean, I feel a bit like I'm getting beaten over the head with a mallet at times. You see, if you take the view that he's trying to evoke the voice of God at the Dawn of Creation (which is what the sleevenotes say), then, evidently, this is a bit outside your standard Jazz fan's experience (understatement).

I have this vision of it as like confronting the face of God (face of God/Voice of God at the Dawn of Creation, same difference). This is evidently an awesome and overwhelming experience - which one can only do for so long. But I think there ought probably to be some unbearability in the music as well (because one should not really be able to look God in the face).

Anyway that's my rationalization for how I experience this music.

Simon Weil

[Thanks Ubu, enjoying it too]

[AfricaBrass]

That's a really cool interpretation, Simon!

I'm going to go back and listen with that visual in mind.

Later period Coltrane is more like an experience than just music.

[RDK]

Is there much in the way of live concert footage (either official or unofficial) from Coltrane's later period? I have to admit to having little patience for his later music, but it would be cool to see him performing with that intensity live...

[7/4]

I have this vision of it as like confronting the face of God (face of God/Voice of God at the Dawn of Creation, same difference). This is evidently an awesome and overwhelming experience - which one can only do for so long. But I think there ought probably to be some unbearability in the music as well (because one should not really be able to look God in the face).

Anyway that's my rationalization for how I experience this music.

But wouldn't a Hindu see God in everything? (the way I understand these things...)

[AfricaBrass]

I have this vision of it as like confronting the face of God (face of God/Voice of God at the Dawn of Creation, same difference). This is evidently an awesome and overwhelming experience - which one can only do for so long. But I think there ought probably to be some unbearability in the music as well (because one should not really be able to look God in the face).

Anyway that's my rationalization for how I experience this music.

But wouldn't a Hindu see God in everything? (the way I understand these things...)

I could see a Hindu version of "oneness" in Simon's idea. The intensity of the experience. If a person had an experience of "oneness", it probably would blow them out of their shoes.

[7/4]

I have this vision of it as like confronting the face of God (face of God/Voice of God at the Dawn of Creation, same difference). This is evidently an awesome and overwhelming experience - which one can only do for so long. But I think there ought probably to be some unbearability in the music as well (because one should not really be able to look God in the face).

Anyway that's my rationalization for how I experience this music.

But wouldn't a Hindu see God in everything? (the way I understand these things...)

I could see a Hindu version of "oneness" in Simon's idea. The intensity of the experience. If a person had an experience of "oneness", it probably would blow them out of their shoes.

Well, that's the intensity of that kind of belief: seeing the face of God everywhere and being blown away by that intensity 24/7.

[John B]

JSngry put it best a while back while describing Interstellar Space:

"You don't fuck with a man seeing God before he dies."

I think a lot of the last comments are pretty spot-on. Simon's in particular really seems accurate to me.

[Simon Weil]

Thanks, guys...

Simon Weil

[mikeweil]

AB, I'm a huge Trane fan, but what you hear on "Om" is real evil spirits at work, sad to say. And the silly poem that they chant is a piece of eastern religious garbage related to hinduism etc. Yechh! I regret that Trane got involved with that, but, as the Lord said, the blind lead the blind and both fall into the ditch.

I think a little more respect towards Eastern religion is in order. I hear a lot of prejudice in your statement, and I am pretty sure you would not tolerate someone calling Christian religion "garbage". Coltrane's spiritual quest was one of deep sincerity, and it certainly gave him something - and a host of other people. Each man to his own beat of the drum. To call him blind borders on the arrogant.

[Rooster_Ties]

AB, I'm a huge Trane fan, but what you hear on "Om" is real evil spirits at work, sad to say. And the silly poem that they chant is a piece of eastern religious garbage related to hinduism etc. Yechh! I regret that Trane got involved with that, but, as the Lord said, the blind lead the blind and both fall into the ditch.

I think a little more respect towards Eastern religion is in order. I hear a lot of prejudice in your statement, and I am pretty sure you would not tolerate someone calling Christian religion "garbage". Coltrane's spiritual quest was one of deep sincerity, and it certainly gave him something - and a host of other people. Each man to his own beat of the drum. To call him blind borders on the arrogant.

Both here, as well as back on the old BNBB – Shrdlu has consistently stated that his personal concepts of religion are the one and only 'true' way to view the world. The prejudice you hear in his statement is intended as such. (And to suggest anything otherwise, is to take on a loosing battle.)

[RDK]

Both here, as well as back on the old BNBB – Shrdlu has consistently stated that his personal concepts of religion are the one and only 'true' way to view the world. The prejudice you hear in his statement is intended as such. (And to suggest anything otherwise, is to take on a loosing battle.)

But we love him anyway.

Just like Johnny...

[mikeweil]

Both here, as well as back on the old BNBB ? Shrdlu has consistently stated that his personal concepts of religion are the one and only 'true' way to view the world. The prejudice you hear in his statement is intended as such. (And to suggest anything otherwise, is to take on a loosing battle.)

I respect Shrdlu as much as anybody here on the board, I benefitted from his generosity and am eternally grateful for making some rare item available to me, and he knows this.

I am not afraid of any battle, and there's noone to win or loose - the divine light takes on many facets, and noone knew better than Coltrane, who accepted religious beliefs of any kind with infinite love and acceptance.

But still, thanks for the warning ... B)

[AfricaBrass]

I think that Coltrane was so intensely devoted at this time to music which I think he saw as religion or the biggest baddest tool of religion that it the study penetrated his life as far as it could, and what he read and what he played and what he thought were probably interconnected in a more effortless way than is possible with many. He certainly was in a position from his study and his habits to be seriously intrigued by the "primal sound" and to be searching for a way to make a "universal sound" that would in its way be a harmony to the primal sound of creation. . . . I think a lot of the music that he produced in the final years sort of passed through him as a part of this study, accelerated perhaps by the sublimation I think he also did of his illness into his work. . . .

I was listening to INTERSTELLAR SPACE this morning and this post came to mind.

I think you're right on, Jazzbo.

I can hear the pain, he must have been experiencing, in his music.

I also wonder if he knew his time was short, and he was trying to get as much in as possible.

I just sense a huge amount of FEELING in his music. Not feeling, as in a groove, but FEELING as in JC putting his essence into the music.