Clunky

What 78 are you spinning right now ?

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Edison's were 80  RPM!?  Were they sold at the same time as '78s?  Did people need different turntables or was the sound not that different?  Maybe turntables split the difference at 79 RPM. (That's an attempt at humour.) 

Edited by medjuck

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3 hours ago, medjuck said:

Edison's were 80  RPM!?  Were they sold at the same time as '78s?  Did people need different turntables or was the sound not that different?  Maybe turntables split the difference at 79 RPM. (That's an attempt at humour.) 

The wind-up gramophones that I have seen (at least the VERY common HMV ones produced under license elsewhere and remaining in proudction for a long time) had a control lever that you could slide to the left or right of the (standard) center position to slow down or speed up the turntable. And this altered the sound and pitch noticeably so I do think the difference between 78 and 80 rpm was reached easily.

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1 hour ago, Big Beat Steve said:

The wind-up gramophones that I have seen (at least the VERY common HMV ones produced under license elsewhere and remaining in proudction for a long time) had a control lever that you could slide to the left or right of the (standard) center position to slow down or speed up the turntable. And this altered the sound and pitch noticeably so I do think the difference between 78 and 80 rpm was reached easily.

Yeah, my Stepfather's Stepfather had one of those. And a load of jazz 78s his daughter had left when she went to become a professional ice skating chorus girl in South Africa. Also quite a bit of crap like 'Mairsy doates'.

MG

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I enjoy reading this thread as a history lesson, in addition to its musical value.

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8 hours ago, medjuck said:

Edison's were 80  RPM!?  Were they sold at the same time as '78s?  Did people need different turntables or was the sound not that different?  Maybe turntables split the difference at 79 RPM. (That's an attempt at humour.) 

Steve's right - early gramophones had a speed control. But Edisons were designed to be played only on Edison machines - they were cut with vertical grooves rather than lateral, and had to be played with a diamond needle - the regular steel needles of the time would tear them up. They were sold between 1913 and 1929. For the last few of those years, they really were great-sounding records, but they were expensive, took up more room than standard records (they're a fourth of an inch / 7 mm thick) and required a dedicated machine, so consumers decided they weren't worth it. 

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9 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

Steve's right - early gramophones had a speed control. But Edisons were designed to be played only on Edison machines - they were cut with vertical grooves rather than lateral, and had to be played with a diamond needle - the regular steel needles of the time would tear them up. They were sold between 1913 and 1929. For the last few of those years, they really were great-sounding records, but they were expensive, took up more room than standard records (they're a fourth of an inch / 7 mm thick) and required a dedicated machine, so consumers decided they weren't worth it. 

Hard to break too! I know Red Nichols recorded for Edison, but I'm not aware of most of the bands Jeff lists in his post. I'm surprised you can adjust your turntable to play Edisons!!

 

 

 

gregmo

Edited by gmonahan

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4 hours ago, gmonahan said:

Hard to break too! I know Red Nichols recorded for Edison, but I'm not aware of most of the bands Jeff lists in his post. I'm surprised you can adjust your turntable to play Edisons!!

 

 

 

gregmo

Once reason I got that turntable was the vertical groove/lateral groove switch. In theory, it should be able to play any vertical-groove 78. In practice, it plays Edisons well, but other verticals (Pathe, early Okeh, etc.) are very difficult to play - the tonearm tends to skate across the record.

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R-9328258-1478708948-5786.jpeg.jpg

12" Blue Notes tonight, starting with Blue Note 1. It's not the first pressing, which had a blue and pink label due to a printing error, but I'm glad to have it. What a noncommercial first issue for a record company - two slow improvised piano blues.

Meade Lux Lewis - Melancholy / Solitude (BN 1)

Port of Harlem Jazz Men - Mighty Blues / Rocking the Blues (BN 3)

Art Hodes' Blue Note Jazz Men - Sugar Foot Stomp / Sweet Georgia Brown (BN 34)

Sidney Bechet's Blue Note Jazz Men - Blue Horizon / Muskrat Ramble (BN 43)

"Blue Horizon" might just be my favorite four minutes of jazz clarinet.

 

 

 

Edited by jeffcrom

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12 minutes ago, jeffcrom said:

R-9328258-1478708948-5786.jpeg.jpg

12" Blue Notes tonight, starting with Blue Note 1. It's not the first pressing, which had a blue and pink label due to a printing error, but I'm glad to have it. What an noncommercial first issue for a record company - two slow improvised piano blues.

Meade Lux Lewis - Melancholy / Solitude (BN 1)

Port of Harlem Jazz Men - Mighty Blues / Rocking the Blues (BN 3)

Art Hodes' Blue Note Jazz Men - Sugar Foot Stomp / Sweet Georgia Brown (BN 34)

Sidney Bechet's Blue Note Jazz Men - Blue Horizon / Muskrat Ramble (BN 43)

"Blue Horizon" might just be my favorite four minutes of jazz clarinet.

 

 

 

I think "Blue Horizon" is the best jazz clarinet EVER! I've listened to it countless times, and it still sends tingles up and down my spine when I hear it.

 

 

 

gregmo

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37 minutes ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

is jeffcrom the only guy here w/ BN-1?  Mad props bro

I read this comment to my wife, and she sarcastically said, "Yeah, you're really special."

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lol--

 

 

i dont get on board till bn-twenty something- i have the meade lux where its a harpsichord solo--- the closest record i can compare it to is songs in the key of life.  

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3 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

I read this comment to my wife, and she sarcastically said, "Yeah, you're really special."

:D

MG

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7 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

I read this comment to my wife, and she sarcastically said, "Yeah, you're really special."

Sometimes Wives just don't understand. :D

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10 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

 ...the first pressing, which had a blue and pink label due to a printing error...

Man....I saw one of those in a Half-Price somewhere in the 80s(?) and thought about picking it up, but passed because, uh....I had my head up my ass?

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29 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Man....I saw one of those in a Half-Price somewhere in the 80s(?) and thought about picking it up, but passed because, uh....I had my head up my ass?

If I had such a thing I'd take it to Las Vegas and see what Rick would offer. His lecture about Blue Note would be fascinating I'm sure. :g

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Fascinating indeed! :g

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11 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

R-9328258-1478708948-5786.jpeg.jpg

12" Blue Notes tonight, starting with Blue Note 1. It's not the first pressing, which had a blue and pink label due to a printing error, but I'm glad to have it. What a noncommercial first issue for a record company - two slow improvised piano blues.

Meade Lux Lewis - Melancholy / Solitude (BN 1)

Port of Harlem Jazz Men - Mighty Blues / Rocking the Blues (BN 3)

Art Hodes' Blue Note Jazz Men - Sugar Foot Stomp / Sweet Georgia Brown (BN 34)

Sidney Bechet's Blue Note Jazz Men - Blue Horizon / Muskrat Ramble (BN 43)

"Blue Horizon" might just be my favorite four minutes of jazz clarinet.

 

 

 

Can't give you accurate info now, but think I have most of the BN 12" discs. None of the pinks, unfortunately.

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How many pinks were there? I was under the impression it was just BN 1, but no?

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12 hours ago, JSngry said:

How many pinks were there? I was under the impression it was just BN 1, but no?

Don't know the answer to that (although I think you might be right), but I have several blue and yellow label BN 78s - both trad (Port of Harlem Jazz Men) and modern (Gil Melle). I'm not sure what the deal was with those.

Ko_Ko_Savoy_78_RPM.jpg  DialRecordMoose.jpg

In the last few minutes of Charlie Parker's birthday, I'm spinning two complete sessions - complete as least as far as 78 issues:

Billie's Bounce / Now's the Time (Savoy 753)
Thriving on a Riff / Warming Up a Riff (Savoy 945)
Ko Ko / How High the Moon (Don Byas) Savoy 597)

A Night in Tunisia / Ornithology (Dial 1002)
Moose the Mooche / Yardbird Suite (Dial 1004)

When I first started collecting 78s in earnest, about nine years ago, a friend brought over his copy of Dial 1002. It was so alive and "present" (especially Miles's trumpet sound) that I knew I had to have this session on mint 78s. It took me a few years to find good copies I could afford.
 

 

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I have the Savoy Be Bop 78 album but it is missing 945...

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R-4247644-1527565009-6406.jpeg.jpg

Some folks here were pretty interested in the Don Byas Jamboree recordings I posted about. Byas also recorded two sessions for the Super Disc label in 1945 - the first with Erroll Garner on piano, the second with Johnny Guarnieri. The Super Disc "Harvard Blues" was one of the two records that got broken in all the moving of records that was required when I had my 78 shelves built last year. I just found a replacement, so I celebrated by playing all the Byas Super Discs. Two have the Erskine Butterfield Quartet on the flip - those have Shorty Baker on trumpet and some nice guitar by Al Norris of the Jimmie Lunceford band. "Slam-in' Around" features Slam Stewart "on Singing Bass."

Three O'Clock In the Morning / One 'O Clock Jump (Super Disc 1006)
Harvard Blues / St. Louis Blues Boogie (Erskine Butterfield) (1007)
Slam-in' Around / Anything (Erskine Butterfield) (1008)

Melody in Swing / Super Session (1010)
Embraceable You / The Sheik of Araby (1011)


 

 

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got the earliest alladin 78 ive ever found this wk- it is the earlier script logo prior to the classic logo.   johnny moore 3 blazers feat. charlies brown.  

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I seem to only be able to go 2-3 days of listening to LPs or 78s before the compulsion to change over the turntable to the other format kicks in. Tonight I spun Louis Armstrong records sourced from his 1932-33 Victors.

Mississippi Basin / Hobo You Can't Ride This Train (Montgomery Ward)
That's My Home / I Hate to Leave You Now (Bluebird)
I Gotta Right to Sing the Blues / Hustlin' and Bustlin' for Baby (Bluebird)
Basin Street Blues / Dusky Stevedore (Bluebird)

Maybe this 78 thread is the wrong place to talk about this, but there is something special about Armstrong's 1932-33 Victor recordings. On the best of them, his trumpet playing achieved a soaring, majestic eloquence that he never reached anywhere else on record. The best of his earlier Okeh recordings were amazing in a different way - they were full of youthful virtuosity, in every element of music - technique, rhythm, melody, harmonic imagination. And there plenty of peaks later, of course. But the feel of what Louis accomplished on the best of these Victors has little equivalent in the history of music; maybe Beethoven's late quartets are the closest emotionally, although the scale is very different, of course. The Bluebird take of "That's My Home" (different from, and far superior to the original Victor issue) and "I Gotta Right to Sing the Blues" are the best recorded examples of this sweeping eloquence, and are among my favorite Armstrong recordings.

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session12014awcwhite.jpg  R-11672515-1520419773-1693.jpeg.jpg

12" jazz tonight; two complete sessions from 1944:

Punch Miller - West End Blues / The Boy in the Boat & Sugar Foot Stomp / Muscle Shoals Blues (Session)

Cliff Jackson - Quiet Please / You've Got Me Walkin' and Talkin' to Myself & Cliff's Boogie Woogie / Jeepers Creepers (Black & White)

Punch Miller is a favorite of mine. He's at his peak here, with an all-New Orleans-in-Chicago-exile band. The Cliff Jackson date features a very good band; obviously Sidney Bechet's playing is the highlight. All of these records are thin-sounding, with a narrow frequency range even for 1944.

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