lkaven Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 A better book would have been to name one's own top fifty and defend it, rather than hide behind a huge survey and state "The people have spoken." The lack of published method makes it even worse. It reminds me of the "non scientific" polls that CNN runs. It is a classic paradox. The presentation of the poll is intended to induce the belief that the poll is meaningful; but the poll is explicitly disclaimed and the lack of controls and adherence to scientific methods entails that the poll is meaningless. If you want to know how much ignorance is expected of the viewer/reader, that is a measure of it. The same is true here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 OK, let´s not start a "Best European Jazz Pianist Ever" thread. a tough decision between Andrzej Kurylewicz, Andrzej Trzaszkowski, Krzystof Komeda, Iancsi Körössy,... Pianists whose name or surname contains more than four consonants are not allowed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Quite a list. No mention of a number of pianists that most readers here have recordings of, e.g., Sonny Clark, Walter Davis Jr., Herbie Nichols, Dodo Marmarosa, Freddie Redd, Randy Weston, Mulgrew Miller, Barry Harris. We can all add more I'm sure, especially when some of our collections feature piano led dates by Brad Mehldau, George Cables, John Hicks, Don Pullen, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Jazz journalist Gene Rizzo surveyed the top jazz minds in the worlds of education, publishing and entertainment to rank the 50 greatest jazz piano players of all time. Those surveyed ranked players spanning an 80-year period on skill, originality, creativity and influence. Rizzo collected these results, along with historical photographs of the featured pianists, in the appropriately named volume “The 50 Greatest Jazz Piano Players of All Time.” NPR Broadcast Just a few of the rankings 1. Oscar Peterson 2. Bill Evans 3. Bud Powell 4. Art Tatum 7. Andre Previn 10. Red Garland 15. Thelonious Monk No Andrew Hill Andre Previn???????????? AT NUMBER SEVEN, YET?????? Whaaaaaa???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 A better book would have been to name one's own top fifty and defend it, rather than hide behind a huge survey and state "The people have spoken." The lack of published method makes it even worse. It reminds me of the "non scientific" polls that CNN runs. It is a classic paradox. The presentation of the poll is intended to induce the belief that the poll is meaningful; but the poll is explicitly disclaimed and the lack of controls and adherence to scientific methods entails that the poll is meaningless. If you ask me, the non-inclusion of Sonny Clark and Herbie Nichols guarentees that the poll is meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I'd be willing to bet that Oscar Peterson would blanch at his placement on this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 All I can say is, I got no problem with Gene Harris at #12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 It's absurd to rank them, but if you're going to, at least put Nat King Cole in the top ten... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I can't do a top fifty - there aren't fifty pianists I like. Here's thirty I like a lot, more or less in order. LES MCCANN JUNIOR MANCE HAROLD MABERN HERMAN FOSTER JOHN WRIGHT STAN HOPE HORACE SILVER BOBBY TIMMONS RAY CHARLES DUKE ELLINGTON HAMPTON HAWES WYNTON KELLY CHARLES BROWN PHINEAS NEWBORN SONNY CLARK HANK CRAWFORD RAY BRYANT AMOS MILBURN PIANO RED NORMAN SIMMONS GENE RUSSELL LLOYD GLENN SONNY THOMPSON ABDULLAH IBRAHIM PROFESSOR LONGHAIR NAT 'KING' COLE VAN “PIANO MAN” WALLS MCCOY TYNER JOHN HICKS THELONIOUS MONK Plus AHMAD JAMAL I only heard Ahmad for the first time about ten days ago, when I bought a few of his CDs. I think he'll be in the list in a few months, though. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I'll say. How did a trombone player make the list? Wasn't aware that the guy had changed instruments. At the very least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Look, at least we all agree that Bud Powell is #1 - right Sal? (please don't poop on my post) - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I'll say. How did a trombone player make the list? Wasn't aware that the guy had changed instruments. At the very least! Friend of mine worked in a record store years ago where Benny Green would sometimes call & always ID himself by saying, "Hi, this is Benny-with-a-Y Green." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Andrzej Kurylewicz, Andrzej Trzaszkowski, Krzystof Komeda, Iancsi Körössy,... Wow! Looks like an explosion at the Scrabble factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Andrzej Kurylewicz, Andrzej Trzaszkowski, Krzystof Komeda, Iancsi Körössy,... Wow! Looks like an explosion at the Scrabble factory. heheh. If you like a taste, I have uploaded a tune by Kurylewicz and Trzaszkowski each here. Some of their stuff is available again and I can only recommend the "Polish Jazz" series albums. This is some rare material from 10" LPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 A personal favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 A better book would have been to name one's own top fifty and defend it, rather than hide behind a huge survey and state "The people have spoken." The lack of published method makes it even worse. It reminds me of the "non scientific" polls that CNN runs. It is a classic paradox. The presentation of the poll is intended to induce the belief that the poll is meaningful; but the poll is explicitly disclaimed and the lack of controls and adherence to scientific methods entails that the poll is meaningless. If you want to know how much ignorance is expected of the viewer/reader, that is a measure of it. The same is true here. Anthony Braxton would no doubt call it an example of the Spectacle Diversion Syndrome, and he would no doubt be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 A better book would have been to name one's own top fifty and defend it, rather than hide behind a huge survey and state "The people have spoken." The lack of published method makes it even worse. It reminds me of the "non scientific" polls that CNN runs. It is a classic paradox. The presentation of the poll is intended to induce the belief that the poll is meaningful; but the poll is explicitly disclaimed and the lack of controls and adherence to scientific methods entails that the poll is meaningless. If you want to know how much ignorance is expected of the viewer/reader, that is a measure of it. The same is true here. Anthony Braxton would no doubt call it an example of the Spectacle Diversion Syndrome, and he would no doubt be right. Spectacle Diversion Syndrome! Oh, I do like that! But it's from the viewpoint of the victim, by the looks of it. From the oposite viewpoint - ie the instigator's - it would be Spectacle Diversion Tactic. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I don't know about you guys but I don't like my jazz polished - I prefer it rough - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I don't know about you guys but I don't like my jazz polished - I prefer it rough - Is "jazz" being used in the euphemistic sense here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) Listening to the NPR interview (the link provided in the first post in this thread), I was struck at how incredibly conservative the author was. Don't have exact quotes, but the author was clearly disappointed in the plethora of current jazz styles (and especially the supposed "attitudes" behind those styles) -- styles and attitudes that plain and simple, he just didn't like. And of course, because he didn't like them, they were clearly bad. (Or so seemed his subtext.) I'm sure most of us here could assemble top-50 lists that would be infinitely more valuable than what this guy's supposed "process" came up with. My list would include lots of names whose music I don't personally have burning passion for -- as I'm sure most of your lists would too (in terms of your own interests). But if one makes even any attempt to be comprehensive (stylistically), then there are gonna be names and styles present that don't all float one's boat equally. If the author did indeed poll "hundreds" of people with his questionnaire process -- then it was exclusively his friends, colleagues, and acquaintances -- all of whom were as musically conservative as he was. What an absolute waste of time. Edited January 25, 2006 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 What an absolute waste of time. Ah, but it will serve Massa's purposes quite well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) What an absolute waste of time. Ah, but it will serve Massa's purposes quite well... Marssalis Edited January 25, 2006 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I'd be willing to bet that Oscar Peterson would blanch at his placement on this list. Even he would have to put Tatum first! (Actually, Tatum is not a top favorite of mine, although I do appreciate him, but every last pianist seems to revere him, so I bow to their wisdom...) And don't you think Previn would be embarrassed, too? It's absurd to rank them, but if you're going to, at least put Nat King Cole in the top ten... Not even Hines, Basie, Ellington, Teddy Wilson, or Jelly Roll Morton made this top ten. The mind boggles. But at least they made the list. I wouldn't call it a conservative list -- I'd call it clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 A personal favorite. Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Let's not forget that Henry O. Osgood's "So This is Jazz" was published 80 years ago this year. Among the "jazz" musicians examined by Osgood: Irving Berlin, Zez Confrey, Ferde Grofe, and George Gershwin. So have things changed so much since 1926? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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