Van Basten II

Goooooooooooooooooooooooooool

2,111 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Great match from a neutral's point of view.  Some great play, especially by the Spanish but both sides lack a proven goalscorer  (neither Morata nor Immobile score enough from the chances presented them) which would take them to the next level.  Italy have been my team of the tournament so I was pleased to see them prevail.

Copa America is on in the middle of the night so not likely to see it.  

Spain lack a finisher like Kane or Ronaldo. Obviously you can’t invent them out of thin air.  Perhaps over time Morata will become that. Some of the players who advanced to the semis of the Under 21 Championship were on this team so it gives you plenty of hope for the future.

I’ve seen a little bit of the Copa America but it seems sterile compared to the Euros and no crowds only reinforces that impression. 

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Argentina-Colombia semifinal was intense, and the outcome even more dramatic.

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Well that was a good match. Denmark played well but most of their chances were due to England errors. The amount of pressure England exerted on the Danish defence was very impressive. Was it a penalty? Of course it was :D

Another step closer. England look so incisive going forward it's very impressive. Defensively they need to tighten up but the worry is midfield where they can become exposed by slick passing and fast breaks.

Italy will be a real test but not one beyond this squad if all perform well.

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IMHO, without Sterling and Kane England would be just a slightly above average team.

Also, Playing all but one match at Wembley, with near unanimous fan support had played a major part only afforded to a host team.

 

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Agree on both counts but someone has to be the host...

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Agreed, but the English fans in the stadium made it crystal clear that they're not much into playing the host, pretty much any country's home audience would have been more welcoming than them... I know it doesn't say everything about the country at large, it just makes a bad impression and spoils the game

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7 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Agree on both counts but someone has to be the host...

I didn't mean it as a slight. The English better take this Cup on Sunday; the next one may not happen in a while!

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17 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

I didn't mean it as a slight. The English better take this Cup on Sunday; the next one may not happen in a while!

I didn't think you did at all. I was just alluding to our luck at being the hosts. As you say, if we don't win this one all the others will be harder. Another 55 years probably :)

2 hours ago, Niko said:

Agreed, but the English fans in the stadium made it crystal clear that they're not much into playing the host, pretty much any country's home audience would have been more welcoming than them... I know it doesn't say everything about the country at large, it just makes a bad impression and spoils the game

I agree but I would say it's a minority of those fans in the stadium. The same minority who continue to boo the players taking a knee. Sadly a minority that has become more vocal over the last five years. They are a stain on this country but a sad reflection of other, greater issues and and are sadly encouraged, or at the very least not discouraged, by people who should know better. It makes me very sad and angry that they can make such a very poor impression.

The irony is that the team they "support" are the living antithesis of these views. The way this generation of England players deport themselves (with a few exceptions) and the manner in which the manager presents himself is the best of this country.

Apologies for going on at length but this is a subject that I feel strongly about. England as a country, and as a set of football fans, can and should be so much better than how it is projected.

Back to the football...

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My take on the European press: everyone hates England. Again.

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Posted (edited)

Haven't posted here, but watched most UEFA 2020 games and was not impressed by most teams, and that's putting it mildly. The Spanish and Italians were by far the best, and I really hope Italy win it on Sunday, the quality of their football should prevail over a rather mediocre English team - all in my view, of course :) The attitude of English fans disgusted me, that's all I want to say about it.

Edited by J.A.W.

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1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

Haven't posted here, but watched most UEFA 2020 games and was not impressed by most teams, and that's putting it mildly. The Spanish and Italians were by far the best, and I really hope Italy win it on Sunday, the quality of their football should prevail over a rather mediocre English team - all in my view, of course :) The attitude of English fans disgusted me, that's all I want to say about it.

I'll say again, not all the England fans, a minority. Disgusting behaviour, yes

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

My take on the European press: everyone hates England. Again.

Well, we haven't done ourselves many favours in the last few years...

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

I'll say again, not all the England fans, a minority. Disgusting behaviour, yes

That's why I said "English fans", not "THE English fans" - there's a difference :)

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

Well, we haven't done ourselves many favours in the last few years...

I used to be an anglophile, but I'm afraid that's a thing of the past... Going into that any further would get political, so I'll stop here.

Edited by J.A.W.

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Conmebol (the South American football federation) does a terrible job at promoting their games, at least in the US. It was only through a Spanish site that I found out that the championship was being decided tonight. 

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The match didn’t lack for passion and was the usual chippy match match between these two. I’m actually surprised a few reds weren’t handed out.  Congrats to Messi to finally winning one. ‘Bout time. 

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10 hours ago, J.A.W. said:

That's why I said "English fans", not "THE English fans" - there's a difference :)

And why saying "some of the English fans" or even "a minority of" would have made even more difference :)

 

10 hours ago, J.A.W. said:

I used to be an anglophile, but I'm afraid that's a thing of the past... Going into that any further would get political, so I'll stop here.

Oh, I don't judge anyone for changing that stance in the last 10 years. I've practically done so myself which has not been a pleasant experience and saddens me. I just hold on to hope that things will change, slim hope but hope nonetheless. Meanwhile I'll hold onto being a Europhile as tight as I can.

And yes, anything more would be political not least because of the political causes. I'll leave it there too.

Now, back to the footy...

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37 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

 

 

Oh, I don't judge anyone for changing that stance in the last 10 years. I've practically done so myself which has not been a pleasant experience and saddens me. I just hold on to hope that things will change, slim hope but hope nonetheless. Meanwhile I'll hold onto being a Europhile as tight as I can.

 

:tup

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15 hours ago, mjazzg said:

I'll say again, not all the England fans, a minority. Disgusting behaviour, yes

There's a bunch of these in every country, it seems.

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15 hours ago, mjazzg said:

 

Well, we haven't done ourselves many favours in the last few years...

Why SHOULD you do any favors to anyone on the continent nearby? I think you've done enough  in the two bloodiest wars in history. Your neighbors always ask for more, and say this wasn't enough.  If soccer isn't a result of a state's politics...then I don't know. Look at the composition of the Dutch team - most of them are of african descent. Same for the French - africans and north africans. It's pleasant to see that they continue that trait into their politics. The Dutch and the French have had a great many black african and arab leaders, right?

Then they all complain about English drunks in the stands. :g

 

The Brazil-Argentina match yesterday was the one for the ages. You Europeans should watch how it ought to be done. Finally, Leo Messi was crowned the King. Viva Messi!

 

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Why SHOULD you do any favors to anyone on the continent nearby? I think you've done enough  in the two bloodiest wars in history. Your neighbors always ask for more, and say this wasn't enough.  If soccer isn't a result of a state's politics...then I don't know. Look at the composition of the Dutch team - most of them are of african descent. Same for the French - africans and north africans. It's pleasant to see that they continue that trait into their politics. The Dutch and the French have had a great many black african and arab leaders, right?

Then they all complain about English drunks in the stands. 

 

I'm not going to go there in any detail as that takes us definitely into politics. I will say that that perspective doesn't really chime with mine as I don't think we fought those wars to create a debt or hold any country beholden. The representation of diverse ethnicities in the England squad that reflects our colonial past is a good thing ( the representation not the colonialism) in my view. And yes, the political class in England could be much more representative (I won't speak for other countries).

And once again, now back to the footy...

I'm being to feel equal parts nervous and sneakingly confident about this evening. Come on England! 😀

Edited by mjazzg

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It's coming, Rome! :lol:

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I'm looking forward to the game tonight. I'm  hoping that Saka continues to shine and I really admire Southgate and his team who all seem to be level headed.

What I can't stand  however is the incredibly  jingoistic media hype that is a major deterrent for me in getting behind the English team. It just goes on endlessly and the media never seem to learn. A bit more humility would go along way in my book. Football owes England nothing and the country has no right to any outcome. It's not 55 years of hurt but rather underachievement.

Additionally I'm very disappointed to read today of Danish fans being verbally abused after the semi final. An absolute disgrace and a stain on the reputation.  So I'll need to decide which beer I'm drinking tonight, Watney's Red Barrel or Peroni.....

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41 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

The Brazil-Argentina match yesterday was the one for the ages. You Europeans should watch how it ought to be done. Finally, Leo Messi was crowned the King. Viva Messi!

 

With cynical tackles and players pushing other down? It was a terrible display. When they actually played, the display was good. 

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Posted (edited)

51 minutes ago, Clunky said:

I'm looking forward to the game tonight. I'm  hoping that Saka continues to shine and I really admire Southgate and his team who all seem to be level headed.

What I can't stand  however is the incredibly  jingoistic media hype that is a major deterrent for me in getting behind the English team. It just goes on endlessly and the media never seem to learn. A bit more humility would go along way in my book. Football owes England nothing and the country has no right to any outcome. It's not 55 years of hurt but rather underachievement.

Additionally I'm very disappointed to read today of Danish fans being verbally abused after the semi final. An absolute disgrace and a stain on the reputation.  So I'll need to decide which beer I'm drinking tonight, Watney's Red Barrel or Peroni.....

I hope Southgate will refrain from further World War II comments...

Southgate WW II comments

Edited by J.A.W.

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2 minutes ago, J.A.W. said:

I hope Southgate will refrain from further World War II comments...

Southgate WW II comments

perhaps not the best choice of words but overall as a Scot who has no skin in this particular game I've found his comment to the media have  been pretty measured. I can quite understand why the German media took exception. The Blitz, 1966, his missed penalty , Brexit and UK duplicity to European neighbours should all be irrelevant. Yet all of this is constantly stirred up over here in a manner that I find distasteful and lacks respect for Englands opponents whether they be Scotland, Germany, Denmark or Italy..

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Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, Clunky said:

perhaps not the best choice of words but overall as a Scot who has no skin in this particular game I've found his comment to the media have  been pretty measured. I can quite understand why the German media took exception. The Blitz, 1966, his missed penalty , Brexit and UK duplicity to European neighbours should all be irrelevant. Yet all of this is constantly stirred up over here in a manner that I find distasteful and lacks respect for Englands opponents whether they be Scotland, Germany, Denmark or Italy..

Completely agree.

I think Southgate's demeanour has been largely impressive. He very definitely doesn't come over as jingoistic which doesn't mean that his comments aren't presented that way by our largely rabidly rightwing press ( couldn't help but laugh at the linked article, The Express quoting Bild, the irony).

1 hour ago, Clunky said:

I'll need to decide which beer I'm drinking tonight, Watney's Red Barrel or Peroni.....

Oh, I'd stick to an Innis & Gunn. A proper beer in whichever manifestation

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

It's coming, Rome! :lol:

I fear it might well be. From my first posts in this thread I've identified Italy as the standout team. No real reason to change that opinion other than the significant tactical change required by Spinazzola's injury.

I won't begrudge the marvellous Giorgio Chiellini holding the trophy aloft.

Head says Italy, heart says England

Edited by mjazzg

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