CraigP Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm not sure that Clean Feed records that many of the sessions they release. Quite often (don't know what percentage) the artist(s) bring the tape to Clean Feed (or CF solicits artists they have an interest in), who packages and distributes it. I think this is the reason for the wide variances. To be fair, CF does not issue too many stinkers. If I had to give them an overall grade, it would be "B". But a lot of Bs can get discouraging at $15.95 a pop. @CraigP: Funny, I had the opposite thought but maybe the better albums come from those who have been playing together for a while, whatever the idiom they are in. I do find myself being more picky; a couple of years ago I'd sometimes buy the whole batch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 FWIW, I like Capricorn Climber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 FWIW, I like Capricorn Climber. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmce Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 That quote made me laugh.and yes, I've found a case of diminishing returns although my last purchase batch of the Wadada/Sanchez, Nate Wooley and the McPhee solo were all top notch. I like that they record a lot of musicians that I've not necessarily heard and I hope they continue to be able to throw the net wide. Another recent 'hit' was Tone Hunting by a Polish/German quartet of whom i'd only heard the trumpeter. Took the risk and it paid off. Listening to the Eric Revis with Kris Davis and Andrew Cyrille and it's impressive stuff Did you hear the first recording from this Davis-Hebert-Rainey trio on Fresh Sound? Absolutely great, punchy stuff. I get the (mild) criticisms put forth here, but I would still posit Clean Feed as the best jazz label operating today, really the descendant of 60s Blue Note, 70s-80s Black Saint/Soul Note, 80s-90s Hat Hut, etc. Very well packaged, affordable*, very high-quality music (esp. of late). I'm glad they're able to crank it out like they do. *Leeway, did you know you can get the CDs for $14.90 shipped from the label? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think the Clean Feeds that tend to be most successful are those in which the groups proceed from some sort of compositional base, rather than ones that are more "free" oriented. But that may be my listening bias. Mine too, i think. I think it also partly relates to the following: To be fair, CF does not issue too many stinkers. If I had to give them an overall grade, it would be "B". But a lot of Bs can get discouraging at $15.95 a pop. This pretty much sums up my feelings on CF (although with the exchange rate/free shipping they work out to be relatively cheap for me). It's like you'll never get a drastically bad album on CF, but it's all so consistently 3.5 to 4 star; you rarely get a mind blowing, blazing 5 star release on CF. When i think about the albums that have blown my mind over the last few years i can't imagine them having been release on CF rather than their respective labels. Just an observation, i still highly value CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) *Leeway, did you know you can get the CDs for $14.90 shipped from the label? Yes, thanks, I knew there was a "9" in there but quoted a dollar over! A lot of times I can pick them up at concerts, typically for $10, from the artist, or wait for CF to have a sale. The number of times this is happening though (for me) is declining). I get the (mild) criticisms put forth here, but I would still posit Clean Feed as the best jazz label operating today, really the descendant of 60s Blue Note, 70s-80s Black Saint/Soul Note, 80s-90s Hat Hut, etc. Very well packaged, affordable*, very high-quality music (esp. of late). I'm glad they're able to crank it out like they do. I have to disagree about CF being the best jazz label operating today. One reason is that it is more of an aggregator than a label. The other reason is that the better releases have been coming out on Not Two, No Business, Relative Pitch, Rune Grammofon, Intakt, etc. For a while, CF was filling a gap left by the demise of the big labels. They had a terrific rise. Now, quite a few other labels have come to fill that gap, and put out really superior recordings. CF is no longer pre-eminent in that regard. Edited January 22, 2014 by Leeway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Supposed to be a new Malaby-Parker-Waits CD out soon that was recorded last summer in NYC I would expect it to be released on Clean Feed Edited January 23, 2014 by Steve Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigP Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Leeway, to your list of labels I would add Firehouse 12, especially last year when they released great records from Mary Halvorson, Myra Melford and Taylor Ho Bynum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Leeway, to your list of labels I would add Firehouse 12, especially last year when they released great records from Mary Halvorson, Myra Melford and Taylor Ho Bynum. Yes definitely! That's the kind of the distinction I'm trying to draw, although I shouldn't overstate the case as regards CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Thanks for the link. Looking forward to the Kris Davis. I picked up some Bauder discs during the last Clean Feed clearance sale; good, but they didn't really grab me. I'll need to listen to them again. Hebert should be good too. Kullhammer and Dessen I'm unfamiliar with; will need to catch up. Bauder's "Day in Pictures" group is very different from Memorize the Sky, a cooperative trio exploring lower case improv. Dessen is on the recent Mark Dresser disc on Clean Feed. I have both Bauder CDs. I recall now the differences between the discs. "Day in Pictures" has a nice line-up. Just don't recall it having much of an impact on me on first hearing, but 2nd time around might be the charm. I think the best one Bauder has done so far is "Weary Already on the Way" on 482 Music way back when. I thought it was a highly original work. All the rest I've heard from him so far was good, but not that striking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Not in relation to CF, particularly, but a lot of tapes get released that are not much more than documents, and some people get recorded who honestly shouldn't - stuff that is fine if you happen to be at their gig but doesn't really stand up to even a single clinical listen. There are some so-so discs and even clunkers out there by some big names, let alone the rest. I think that's fine but it also calls for caution, and probably a really great label would be one where you *know* the quality control is high. There are other ways for labels to do great work, but the model of releasing just what the artists give you is going to have uneven results, to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I guess I agree with that point ... which is a main reason I stopped closely following much of this activity - I just don't have the time/energy/interest to keep up with all of it. Even this thread, which works a kind of a filter, is pure overkill to me! To add one to the label list that I respect very much - and that does proceed with caution and with more care than many others, it seesm: Pi Recordings. Not that I'm interested in their entire catalogue, not that I think all the albums I've heard are masterpieces ... and I'm not even too much of a fan of their covers/designs ... but they do some great work, in my humble opinion (and the latest by Threadgill was an effin' masterpiece, just in case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Agree with David and Flurin on overabundance of mediocre music, it't too easy to record / release stuff these days, I guess. Creative Sources is another label that is releasing too much stuff, with just a few really outstanding records here and there. I think the most interesting labels in the improvised music realm are Fataka and, in particular, Mikroton. They are pretty far removed from jazz, but well, jazz is a historical genre, you can't expect much innovation there. Edited January 23, 2014 by Д.Д. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The cool thing is no one record label has to be the be all and end all, i'm perfectly happy to continue cherry picking from all over the place. Clean Feed just is what it is and everyone's mileage is going to vary. To add one to the label list that I respect very much - and that does proceed with caution and with more care than many others, it seesm: Pi Recordings. Not that I'm interested in their entire catalogue, not that I think all the albums I've heard are masterpieces ... and I'm not even too much of a fan of their covers/designs ... but they do some great work, in my humble opinion (and the latest by Threadgill was an effin' masterpiece, just in case). The stuff that Threadgill has been doing... it's just one of the things that makes the consistently quality Clean Feed releases and stuff in that realm seem so unexciting by comparison. That level of genius, along with an ear for the massive, glorious hooks that Threadgill incorporates, is ultra rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigP Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 To King Ubu's point, Pi is a label that consciously limits the number of records they release, because they want to keep quality high and properly promote each one. So far, it seems to be working for them, although as Ubu pointed out a lot of their past releases, such as those by some AACM stalwarts, are not that essential. And while there may be an over-abundance of mediocre music, my "problem" is that there's too much really good music! It takes a lot of time (and potentially money) to keep up with all of it. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm having to be more particular in what I buy. (Now, how many of those Clean Feeds am I going to order..?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Well, it's really difficult, valid arguments either way ... I guess indeed there's tons of good stuff coming out. I made use of offers by Ayler, Porter, Clean Feed, bought a bunch of No Business releases ... and this at a time when I stopped listening to jazz nearly completely ... there's not a clunker among those several dozen discs I bought (none of them is brand new, well mostly not, a few of the No Business ones are and here's a mighty big for the Kidd Jordan/Alvin Fielder - as if you need me to tell you, ha!) As for Threadgill, that guy is just genius ... one of the most important musicians of the past what, four decades? At least that's my view. I have the utmost respect for his stuff, and while not all of his music was love at first listen, I grew to at least appreciate most of it ... but some of it I love dearly and "Tomorrow Sunny / The Revelry, spp" belongs to the best new music I've discovered in the past several years. That dude is just way beyond cool, pulling this stuff that at the same time is so darn complex and multi-faceted and yet so incredibly funky and infectuous. Anyway, my point is that he's the lucky catch as far as pi goes (and I guess it really goes both ways, since they kinda seem to have re-invogarted his career as a recording artist, too). The thing is, I have this private "category" of superfluous music - I know, this is opinionated and may crack toughly on some very good stuff - and while I mainly apply this to younger mainstream/post-bop/whatever type of records, with the overflow of new releases in the further out, avantgard-ish styles of jazz, I think it goes in that same direction (not to start another shitstorm, but Eicher/ECM is another example for some rather well thought out operation - although I disagree with plenty of his choices and ways of handling the music soundwise and atmosphere-wise, he certainly does a pretty decent job all in all, there's no denying that). And I think pi somehow produces stuff that is somehow adding to what there is, not repeating - even if it's the old guys ... there's a freshness about their Roscoe Mitchell release that I love (I never quite thought the same about the band's first one on ECM, the second is still on the pile, a recent acquisition). Or who gave a sh*t about the Revolutionary Ensemble? It's not their best record, but it was certainly a good way to go. Also, there's been made mention of too many casual things getting documented and released ... I think those two duo sets by Muhal Richard Abrams do definitely not fall under that category (while maybe some of those Vision sets out on other labels occasionally do ... but then I found the one by the Stone Quartet on Ayler pretty darn good again ... guess I got to check out their first release which seems to be even better). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Not many of today's labels have a "guiding light" as in the past. This might be good or not but there is a quality difference. The economics of the day dictate the current results. I receive dozens of projects (downloads or cdrs) from friends and others. If I chose to I could issue a couple of dozen releases this year for little. At this stage of the "business" musicians are offering me money to issue their material so it will be on a "recognized" label. Multitudes of my "rejects" show up on other labels. Of these labels I recommend Clean Feed and Not Two for their presentation. My old friend ATR had a vision and a great label and the guys at Pi are swimming upstream. Wish them well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Yes we miss the halcyon days of hat and FMP or emanem. Guiding lights indeed. One had a very good idea of the sound and vision Ayler was also fine. Clean Feed is classic hit or miss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigP Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I must be dense tonight, Chuck, but who is ATR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 ATR is About Time Records and the screen name of a member here - real name Alan Ringel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Not many of today's labels have a "guiding light" as in the past. This might be good or not but there is a quality difference. The economics of the day dictate the current results. I receive dozens of projects (downloads or cdrs) from friends and others. If I chose to I could issue a couple of dozen releases this year for little. At this stage of the "business" musicians are offering me money to issue their material so it will be on a "recognized" label. Multitudes of my "rejects" show up on other labels. Of these labels I recommend Clean Feed and Not Two for their presentation. My old friend ATR had a vision and a great label and the guys at Pi are swimming upstream. Wish them well. Not Two ... only got one of their releases so far - very nice presentation (and great music) indeed (it's "What Country Is This" by VDMK, of whom I'm not even a remote fan really - but that's a helluva good disc). Anyway, I've heard this thing about musicians having a release on a name label but virtually paying for it themselves ... Hat Hut did (or still does, I guess) some of those as well - but to my ears in most cases still with pretty fine quality control. I confess I did remain sceptical for a while about unknown (to me) names like Michael Adkins (great disc on Hat!) or Russ Lossing (several fine discs), but their releases turned out pretty darn good, at least as far as I've heard them. Anyway, one musician with such a disc out on Hat told me about it in some detail ... I guess if the deal is clear-cut and it's something both sides agree to, I'm fine with that. Most musicians don't seem to make any (or more than very little) money selling conserves these days, it's the concerts they earn some from (and if they sell discs there, I guess usually the earnings of that go straight into their pockets, as these discs they're selling are the payment they got for recording them...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Some very interesting comments here. My interest new music out strips my budget but what's more problematic for me is identifying clear recommendations. The general decline in jazz journalism means that a lot of this stuff gets minimal reviews. Views of posters here have become for me the most valuable tool of what to try next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Some very interesting comments here. My interest new music out strips my budget but what's more problematic for me is identifying clear recommendations. The general decline in jazz journalism means that a lot of this stuff gets minimal reviews. Views of posters here have become for me the most valuable tool of what to try next. Well, you have generous full-track samples - or even full-album streaming - available to check the music out before buying, what do you need the critics for? Musical journalism is a dying breed indeed, and as far as I am concerned, a good riddance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hm, not quite agree there. Still enjoy a good reading on a new (or an old) album by someone who is able to transport enthusiasm on a well-founded basis. But I guess I'm a man of the past century in that (and many other) respect(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 back to new releases.... this is vinyl only I think Keith Tippett/Paul Rogers/Mchel Pilz/Jean-Noel Cognard in quartet and other combinations across 4LPs released on Bloc Thyristors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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