Beethoven Piano Sonatas

[Ron S]

Hey Ron I just checked my copy that I got from Amazon and I didn't notice anything. I played it on two diferent players. Have you tried playing the disc in question on another cd player??

Yep--tried both copies several times on three different players. Once or twice they didn't skip, but most of the time they both skipped at the exact same spot on all 3 players.

That's weird. Have you tried extracting and burning a new copy???

No, but one of the copies is much worse than the other one--it sticks at that point for a few seconds, whereas the second copy just "clicks" at that point every few plays (Amazon told me to keep the first copy rather than have to reimburse me for the cost of return shipping). So I think I'll just send the worse copy to DG for replacement, and hold on to the other one as "insurance". Unless, of course, you just wanna give me your copy.

[Guest youmustbe]

Schubert has more of what I find in Jazz, as great as Ludwig is, Franz is sexier, swings more....I can more easily go from a Schubert piano sonata, especially the latter ones, to Trane, than from Beethoven to a Jazz record.

[Guest youmustbe]

Lest I forget, Schubert's Allegretto in C...those 2 chords...Pure Monk! Or should I say, Monk's chords are pure Schubert?!

[Chalupa]

Wilhelm Kempff would have turned 111 today if he had not died prematurely at 95.

[Guest youmustbe]

Bummer!!

[Ron S]

You know those classical musicians--live life in the fast lane and burn out young.

[Larry Kart]

tSERIOUSLY, ya'll who are digging Arrau, Kempff, etc... are in for some fucking treats someday. there's waaaay more to music-- & the piano! piano! piano! (as some hillbilly yelped during Milton Brown & His Musical Brownies performace of "Down On The O-Hi-O")-- than yr getting... even if you are digging. no crime there but there are other, more colorful, more intense, more poetic ways to git it.

c

It isn't Beethoven, but in line with "the piano! piano! piano!" I'd suggest checking out this treat from Berkshire:

Albeniz, Iberia; Espana; Recuerdos de viaje; Piano Sonata #5; Suite Espanola; Pavana-Capricho; Tango in a; Torre Bermeja; La Vega. (Esteban Sanchez, piano. Total time: 219'27')

Add to cart | Price: $ 8.97 | 3 in set. | Country: DUTCH | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 92398 | BRO Code: 126059 | Label: BRILLIANT CLASSICS

The price is right, and Sanchez is magically "colorful, intense, and poetic." Worth getting even if you have De Larrocha. No hillbilly yelps, though.

[Chalupa]

What's the 411 on this version???

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AAVCY...1598663-0644457

$16.99 +S&H

[gnhrtg]

I'm not, why should I. I'm interested. I have a few sets, but I find none of them totally convincing and I'd like to explore some others.

Only because I remember you would often have 2-3 versions of most works that you would put up for sale. If you keep as many, you would have at least 4-5 versions for most major works. I might be like you in that apart from the versions I own I have drawn from the collection of the music library in Paris, and do so here, to check other notables and come away unconvinced more often than not.

I should say first that it does not bother me in itself if someone's interpretation is idiosyncratic. Second, if I feel - rightly or not - that things are not under control, this does take away from my appreciation of the playing. Finally, in most piano repertoire I prefer versions that are dramatic and/or employ a wider range (of color, touch).

I like Pollini's recording of the last five sonatas (DGG, from 1976/7) but this would hardly be news to anyone as this is a much, and so far I think rightly, praised set.

I also enjoy Pletnev's 1988 recording (on Virgin, reissued this year) of the Moonlight, Waldstein, and Appassionata (which I took the time to compare to Brendel's early 70's recordings on Philips of the same and Brendel's versions sounded rather plodding and monochrome).

For op.111 I like Pogorelich (on DGG), Richter (a 1975 recording, I think, which is part of a 5 disc Brilliant Classics box, for Richter generally, I listen with interest to most of what he has recorded, especially from mid 50's on to early 70's), and again Pletnev (a short note here to say that though recommendations for Pogorelich or Richter might be out there, there are some who find Pletnev's versions, pretty much of anything he plays, perverse and not true to the spirit of the work). I have listened to many recordings of the op.111 but not so for op.106 so though I enjoy Pollini, as I said above, and also Gilels I'm sure there are many others that are worth considering.

I also listened to Solomon's recordings of opp. 90, 101, 106, 109-111 as well as Kovacevich's versions (two discs from his earlier cycle and two from his recent one) and though I could live with these (bearing in minid Solomon's condition when he recorded the sonatas), I would rather not since there are many other versions out there, and already there are others I prefer. I also found it interesting, perhaps slightly bothersome, that Kovacevich came across as not totally comfortable in his recent cycle (at least in the two discs I listened to). I might go for Schnabel every now and then for the sonatas that are not so technically challenging but even then he is rarely among my current favorites.

I'm a fan of Grigory Sokolov and thogh I thought I had all his recordings on disc I see that I don't own the one with Beethoven sonatas, nor the more recent DVD. I have his Diabelli Variations and though I listen to them every now and then - and do not think they're bad at all - I was expecting more from Sokolov.

I have not heard Charles Rosen's earlier recordings of the sonatas though I would like to. The disc that came with his book, The Classical Style, was not impressive (op.106 and 110) but it was recorded when he was close to his 70's, I believe. Neither have I heard Yves Nat's versions but I will keep an eye open for that box as well as for some of the other recommendations made here.

re: Brautigam, yes, much more interesting than the Mozart bc, well... "It's Fucking Mozart!!" as so many street banners in Salzburg proclaimed this past year. only so much you can do w/that stuff despite its ridiculous overrecording.

I do not agree with this. Though I know some, perhaps even many, highly-regarded musicians and composers think likewise (and even if they well sympathetic toward the era they go for Haydn).

And don't get me started on Schumann's Symphonic Etudes! What a hip piece!!

I like Pollini in these.

Finally, for Schubert, I'd go with Lupu, Richter, and Sokolov (only D.894 and, especially, D.960)

[Joe G]

For anyone interested in gaining some insight into these works, I'd recommend this course* from The Teaching Company:

Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

Don't be scared off by that listed price. Wait for it to go on sale (edit: a comparative course on sale is going for $69.95 on CD, the download version being cheaper yet).

*I have not actually heard this particular lecture series, but I own another put together by the same guy (Prof. Greenberg), and would trust that this one is of the same high quality.

Edited December 4, 2006 by Joe G

[Guest youmustbe]

I prefer the American pianists in Schubert, Webster Aitkin, Beveridge Webster, Leonard Shure, Charles Rosen, also in many Beethoven sonatas. Aitken's Hammerklavier and Diabelli live in 61 knocks me out...Beveridge Webster, everything he did was super!!! His Hammerklavier is certainly better than say Petri's crappy one. His Ravel is the only one I can stomach. His Weber sonatas swing!

Maybe because they are not tied down by history, or maybe because I am American and a lover of Jazz, they get me...I talked to Charles Rosen last year about his Schubert, how he just plays it, no extras, as it were.

I heard Leon Fleisher last week, Mozart 12 K414...Geez it was good!!! As Horace Silver said about Roger Humphries...'When he lays down the groove, it don't move'. So with Leon. Rock steady. No bullshit, trying to make Mozart more than he was in the concertos.

BTW Over the years, I've listened to everything Kempff has recorded...great pianist, but too Nazi for me. (I've spent a lot of time in Germnay, family, touring etc, can speak about it). But, his Goldberg is way beyond hip! Sounds nothing like Bach at all! Have any of you heard it? I had lp, so i don't know if he did it more than once.

[B. Goren.]

...too Nazi for me.

I didn't know he was Nazi.

[sonnyhill]

How about Andras Schiff's recording of Schubert's late sonata's? Given the other readily available interpretations, are they worth getting?

[brownie]

...too Nazi for me.

I didn't know he was Nazi.

Neither do I.

Don't hear nazi tendencies in his playing (same for Walter Gieseking)!

[porcy62]

...too Nazi for me.

I didn't know he was Nazi.

Neither do I.

Don't hear nazi tendencies in his playing (same for Walter Gieseking)!

I wouldn't recognize a nazi tendencies in playing of anybody, a part Ted Nugent.

I don't think he was accused by the Allies after the war. That's happend instead with Furtwangler.

Maybe Karajan was nazi, A. Rubinstein never shook his hand again after the War.

[brownie]

...too Nazi for me.

I didn't know he was Nazi.

Neither do I.

Don't hear nazi tendencies in his playing (same for Walter Gieseking)!

I wouldn't recognize a nazi tendencies in playing of anybody, a part Ted Nugent.

I don't think he was accused by the Allies after the war. That's happend instead with Furtwangler.

Maybe Karajan was nazi, A. Rubinstein never shook his hand again after the War.

Neither did I!

[sonnyhill]

What are your opinions on the Friedrich Gulda (1967 on Amadeo) and Claude Frank complete Beethoven sonata sets? The reviews I have found on Amazon indicate that the sound is good on the Gulda, but is his tempos are fast (especially the Waldenstein) . With respect to the Frank, reviews that I have found indicate that it is more of a middle-of-the-road set than the Gulda, but good.

[Ron S]

What are your opinions on the Friedrich Gulda (1967 on Amadeo) and Claude Frank complete Beethoven sonata sets? The reviews I have found on Amazon indicate that the sound is good on the Gulda, but is his tempos are fast (especially the Waldenstein) . With respect to the Frank, reviews that I have found indicate that it is more of a middle-of-the-road set than the Gulda, but good.

FWIW, Jed Distler of Classics Today.com (and now Gramophone) rated both the Gulda set (here)--warts and all--and the Frank set (here) very highly.

Of course, our own local "experts" ("oh my darlin', clementine . . ." ) may have differing views (e.g., Distler uses Arrau, Goode, and Kempff as his "reference" recordings for these reviews) (and yes, clem, I'm looking into both Nat and Brautigam and appreciate your perspective ).

Edited December 10, 2006 by Ron S

[Guest youmustbe]

I have lp by Walter Hautzig, Schumann's Davidsbundlertanze...He was in a camp and the guards knew he was a pianist so they had him wash down the barracks with lye with his bare hands. Walter is still alive. The record was made in 50's or 60's, Haydn Society.

Frank's records I had, and they are nothing special...Schiff is the Chris Botti of Classical music.

I never heard Gulda's, maybe because I knew him slightly, or maybe by the 50th time that Zawinul told me that Gulda was 'a bad mothrfucker', I recoiled. Should give him a listen, now that he is dead.

Like any great work of art, the Beethoven piano sonatas can never be definative, different viewpoints reveal it's magic. I just don't like most of them. I'd rather listen to Schubert's or for that matter, I'd rather listen to Bud Powell playing Tempus Fugit or Gang Starr's Mass Appeal (with the Ahmad Jamal sample) than somebody knocking out the Appasionata, the uptempo 'flag waiver' of another century!

[J.A.W.]

Here are some very extensive reviews of several Beethoven piano sonatas cycles, including a few mentioned in this thread (Yves Nat, Friedrich Gulda). Have fun Edited December 10, 2006 by J.A.W.

[Ron S]

Here are some very extensive reviews of several Beethoven piano sonatas cycles, including a few mentioned in this thread (Yves Nat, Friedrich Gulda). Have fun

So Hans, "Todd" is your screen name on that other Board?

[J.A.W.]

Here are some very extensive reviews of several Beethoven piano sonatas cycles, including a few mentioned in this thread (Yves Nat, Friedrich Gulda). Have fun

So Hans, "Todd" is your screen name on that other Board?

Wish I had the resources to purchase and the time to listen to so many sets...

[Ron S]

Here are some very extensive reviews of several Beethoven piano sonatas cycles, including a few mentioned in this thread (Yves Nat, Friedrich Gulda). Have fun

So Hans, "Todd" is your screen name on that other Board?

Wish I had the resources to purchase and the time to listen to so many sets...

Really! I wonder if "Todd" ever listens to anything else?

[J.A.W.]

Here are some very extensive reviews of several Beethoven piano sonatas cycles, including a few mentioned in this thread (Yves Nat, Friedrich Gulda). Have fun

So Hans, "Todd" is your screen name on that other Board?

Wish I had the resources to purchase and the time to listen to so many sets...

Really! I wonder if "Todd" ever listens to anything else?

As I know nothing about the Yves Nat set, I (quickly) read Todd's review and it's rather mixed. His review of the Stephen (Bishop) Kovacevich set, which I've never heard either, is mainly negative, especially regarding the later recordings in the set - and so is the review of Jan de Kruijff, one of the foremost Dutch classical music journalists. The earliest (i.e. early 1990s) recordings in Kovacevich's set seem to be the best by far.

Edited December 11, 2006 by J.A.W.

[Ron S]

Here are some very extensive reviews of several Beethoven piano sonatas cycles, including a few mentioned in this thread (Yves Nat, Friedrich Gulda). Have fun

So Hans, "Todd" is your screen name on that other Board?

Wish I had the resources to purchase and the time to listen to so many sets...

Really! I wonder if "Todd" ever listens to anything else?

As I know nothing about the Yves Nat set, I (quickly) read Todd's review and it's rather mixed. His review of the Stephen (Bishop) Kovacevich set, which I've never heard either, is mainly negative, especially regarding the later recordings in the set - and so is the review of Jan de Kruijff, one of the foremost Dutch classical music journalists. The earliest (i.e. early 1990s) recordings in Kovacevich's set seem to be the best by far.

On the other hand, the latest Penguin Guide gives the complete Kovacevich set a rosette and says it's one of the best available, and an earlier edition gave his individual disc of 26 and 29 both a "key" AND a rosette and specifically said his Hammerklavier is one of the best ever recorded. So I guess it's just a matter of taste--or pride in a pianist now living in the UK.