Beethoven Piano Sonatas

[jazz1]

I love the Rubenstein RCA Living Stereo. The hybrid SACD sounds wonderful and can be had for $12 at most Border's.

After months of listening to various versions, I settled for the Brendel, as I felt that it was the best compromise performanse and sound wise.

It is actually wonderful.

But I still enjoy the crazy interpretations of John Ogdon.

[michel devos]

Just as anybody, I own several complete sets of the sonatas and none completely satisfies me....However, one of the best compromises for me is the first recording made by Daniel Barenboim for EMI in 1970.Many sonatas are splendidly played, more are of a very good level and none is trivial.

So altogether my first choice, especially since, as icing on the cake, the sound quality is excellent.

But there are isolated albums that I dig, like Richter Appassionata made in 1960 for RCA, Christoph Eschenbach for the Hammerklavier at DG, Yves Nat for the opus 111, and many others.

It seems fashionable nowadays to shoot down Brendel's many complete sets, which I find rather distressing : watching the artist evolution through his four complete sets (Vox + 3 Philips, if I'm right) is a fascinating experience in itself.

[AndrewHill]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

Maybe we got him all wrong. Maybe his music is not as 'Cute' as it has been made out to be.

I have a 4-disc set of Bach's Das wohl Temperirte Clavier the '48' performed by Colin Tilney on Hyperion, and in the booklet, they explain how they found an original period clavier, tuned to the specifications of the time and played it in a vintage chamber hall. The pics are pretty cool too. I compared this with another copy I own, which does not follow the rigor of the Hyperion and there is a significant difference in sound. Maybe the closet we'll get to hearing what Bach might've sounded like?

[michel devos]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

Maybe we got him all wrong. Maybe his music is not as 'Cute' as it has been made out to be.

I have a 4-disc set of Bach's Das wohl Temperirte Clavier the '48' performed by Colin Tilney on Hyperion, and in the booklet, they explain how they found an original period clavier, tuned to the specifications of the time and played it in a vintage chamber hall. The pics are pretty cool too. I compared this with another copy I own, which does not follow the rigor of the Hyperion and there is a significant difference in sound. Maybe the closet we'll get to hearing what Bach might've sounded like?

That's interesting :JSBach wrote his 48 to demonstrate the benefits of his new tuning approach known as the equal temperament (in french, at least...!).(1)

That meant any of the preludes and fugues could be played on an instrument tuned that way and sound good, whatever the key...Do you mean, by "tuned to the specification of the time" that Bach's tempering method was not used and the old method of tuning the keyboard specifically for each key was used?Frankly, given the program, I doubt it, but it would be interesting the listen to the differences between the many ways of tuning.Does the booklet give anymore indications about this?

(1) I mean the well tempered keyboard

Edited May 26, 2007 by michel devos

[AndrewHill]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

Maybe we got him all wrong. Maybe his music is not as 'Cute' as it has been made out to be.

I have a 4-disc set of Bach's Das wohl Temperirte Clavier the '48' performed by Colin Tilney on Hyperion, and in the booklet, they explain how they found an original period clavier, tuned to the specifications of the time and played it in a vintage chamber hall. The pics are pretty cool too. I compared this with another copy I own, which does not follow the rigor of the Hyperion and there is a significant difference in sound. Maybe the closet we'll get to hearing what Bach might've sounded like?

That's interesting :JSBach wrote his 48 to demonstrate the benefits of his new tuning approach known as the equal temperament (in french, at least...!).(1)

That meant any of the preludes and fugues could be played on an instrument tuned that way and sound good, whatever the key...Do you mean, by "tuned to the specification of the time" that Bach's tempering method was not used and the old method of tuning the keyboard specifically for each key was used?Frankly, given the program, I doubt it, but it would be interesting the listen to the differences between the many ways of tuning.Does the booklet give anymore indications about this?

(1) I mean the well tempered keyboard

Sorry for the confusion. I guess you'll have to excuse my poor choice of words, since I'm not a musician nor a music theorist

That said, I was really emphasizing the instrument itself, not the keys the pieces are played in. I pulled out the set though, just to make sure (I should've done this before I typed, but it was buried under a huge stack of cds) and Tilney plays a clavichord (1767) and harpsichord (1764) made by Hamburg builder Johann Adolph Hass for this recording. The booklet also mentions that Tilney performed in the Friends of St. Cecilia's Hall, which is also furnished with period furnishings to boot.

When I compared the Hyperion with the other cd I had (it was one of those generic 'weekend classics' sort of cd, which I've since sold, the Hyperion was an upgrade) there was a remarkable difference not only in the sound of the instruments, but also, curiously, the metre the pieces were played in (the Hyperion version seems to be played at a slower pace, where the 'weekend classic' one is played faster. Why that is, I have no idea.

[michel devos]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

Maybe we got him all wrong. Maybe his music is not as 'Cute' as it has been made out to be.

I have a 4-disc set of Bach's Das wohl Temperirte Clavier the '48' performed by Colin Tilney on Hyperion, and in the booklet, they explain how they found an original period clavier, tuned to the specifications of the time and played it in a vintage chamber hall. The pics are pretty cool too. I compared this with another copy I own, which does not follow the rigor of the Hyperion and there is a significant difference in sound. Maybe the closet we'll get to hearing what Bach might've sounded like?

That's interesting :JSBach wrote his 48 to demonstrate the benefits of his new tuning approach known as the equal temperament (in french, at least...!).(1)

That meant any of the preludes and fugues could be played on an instrument tuned that way and sound good, whatever the key...Do you mean, by "tuned to the specification of the time" that Bach's tempering method was not used and the old method of tuning the keyboard specifically for each key was used?Frankly, given the program, I doubt it, but it would be interesting the listen to the differences between the many ways of tuning.Does the booklet give anymore indications about this?

(1) I mean the well tempered keyboard

Sorry for the confusion. I guess you'll have to excuse my poor choice of words, since I'm not a musician nor a music theorist

That said, I was really emphasizing the instrument itself, not the keys the pieces are played in. I pulled out the set though, just to make sure (I should've done this before I typed, but it was buried under a huge stack of cds) and Tilney plays a clavichord (1767) and harpsichord (1764) made by Hamburg builder Johann Adolph Hass for this recording. The booklet also mentions that Tilney performed in the Friends of St. Cecilia's Hall, which is also furnished with period furnishings to boot.

When I compared the Hyperion with the other cd I had (it was one of those generic 'weekend classics' sort of cd, which I've since sold, the Hyperion was an upgrade) there was a remarkable difference not only in the sound of the instruments, but also, curiously, the metre the pieces were played in (the Hyperion version seems to be played at a slower pace, where the 'weekend classic' one is played faster. Why that is, I have no idea.

Nothing to worry about...Listening to the music is what matters.This Hyperion sounds interesting by the instrument on which the work is played upon, at least.

The incredible thing is how these studies which are purely didactical in intention diffuse such strong moods and emotions : great composer, great music!

[7/4]

Just as anybody, I own several complete sets of the sonatas and none completely satisfies me....However, one of the best compromises for me is the first recording made by Daniel Barenboim for EMI in 1970.Many sonatas are splendidly played, more are of a very good level and none is trivial.

So altogether my first choice, especially since, as icing on the cake, the sound quality is excellent.

That's the one I have.

[AndrewHill]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

Maybe we got him all wrong. Maybe his music is not as 'Cute' as it has been made out to be.

I have a 4-disc set of Bach's Das wohl Temperirte Clavier the '48' performed by Colin Tilney on Hyperion, and in the booklet, they explain how they found an original period clavier, tuned to the specifications of the time and played it in a vintage chamber hall. The pics are pretty cool too. I compared this with another copy I own, which does not follow the rigor of the Hyperion and there is a significant difference in sound. Maybe the closet we'll get to hearing what Bach might've sounded like?

That's interesting :JSBach wrote his 48 to demonstrate the benefits of his new tuning approach known as the equal temperament (in french, at least...!).(1)

That meant any of the preludes and fugues could be played on an instrument tuned that way and sound good, whatever the key...Do you mean, by "tuned to the specification of the time" that Bach's tempering method was not used and the old method of tuning the keyboard specifically for each key was used?Frankly, given the program, I doubt it, but it would be interesting the listen to the differences between the many ways of tuning.Does the booklet give anymore indications about this?

(1) I mean the well tempered keyboard

Sorry for the confusion. I guess you'll have to excuse my poor choice of words, since I'm not a musician nor a music theorist

That said, I was really emphasizing the instrument itself, not the keys the pieces are played in. I pulled out the set though, just to make sure (I should've done this before I typed, but it was buried under a huge stack of cds) and Tilney plays a clavichord (1767) and harpsichord (1764) made by Hamburg builder Johann Adolph Hass for this recording. The booklet also mentions that Tilney performed in the Friends of St. Cecilia's Hall, which is also furnished with period furnishings to boot.

When I compared the Hyperion with the other cd I had (it was one of those generic 'weekend classics' sort of cd, which I've since sold, the Hyperion was an upgrade) there was a remarkable difference not only in the sound of the instruments, but also, curiously, the metre the pieces were played in (the Hyperion version seems to be played at a slower pace, where the 'weekend classic' one is played faster. Why that is, I have no idea.

Nothing to worry about...Listening to the music is what matters.This Hyperion sounds interesting by the instrument on which the work is played upon, at least.

The incredible thing is how these studies which are purely didactical in intention diffuse such strong moods and emotions : great composer, great music!

Thanks I checked around to see if the Hyperion set was still available and I couldn't find it at cdnow/amazon market or on ebay. It was printed in 1989, so I'm guessing its not available anymore. A shame, because it really is an enjoyable recording.

[Guy Berger]

Just as anybody, I own several complete sets of the sonatas and none completely satisfies me....However, one of the best compromises for me is the first recording made by Daniel Barenboim for EMI in 1970.Many sonatas are splendidly played, more are of a very good level and none is trivial.

I have this set and am extremely pleased with it. His performances of the slow movements on the final sonatas (esp. Op 101, 109, 111) are profound.

Guy

[porcy62]

Just as anybody, I own several complete sets of the sonatas and none completely satisfies me....However, one of the best compromises for me is the first recording made by Daniel Barenboim for EMI in 1970.Many sonatas are splendidly played, more are of a very good level and none is trivial.

I have this set and am extremely pleased with it. His performances of the slow movements on the final sonatas (esp. Op 101, 109, 111) are profound.

Guy

Post it in small characters, otherwise you could wake up Chuck or Clem

[Niko]

maybe another candidate thread for the new classical forum (now tell me why is classical under music discussions and hammond zone under general... )

i need a recording of the Waldstein sonata as a christmas present, my buying instructions include: not too slow, melody lines should come out clearly ("Bach-like"?), not too dynamic/dramatic, no cheating in the fast runs... any idea which recording is great and (in tendency) matches these requirements?

[billyboy]

If you feel like spending a little more money, I think this DVD set is fantastic.

Barenboim on Beethoven

Being able to watch someone play all the sonatas was really valuable to me. He makes them look effortless. Additionally, the set comes with six hour-long masterclasses, that are quite informative and entertaining. Highly recommended.

[J.A.W.]

Time to reactivate this old thread

Has anybody heard Paul Lewis' cycle? It was completed last year (I think) and the last instalment has just won Gramophone's "Record of the Year" award. Any opinions?

[gnhrtg]

Time to reactivate this old thread

Has anybody heard Paul Lewis' cycle? It was completed last year (I think) and the last instalment has just won Gramophone's "Record of the Year" award. Any opinions?

I have volumes 2-4 (all three disc sets, I do not have the single disc volume 1 of the op.31 sonatas). These are straightforward performances with less drama than most. Leaving aside the British critics (who have hailed his Schubert and Liszt recordings from a couple of years ago as also great; and truth to tell his Schubert D958 & 959 are not bad) there were enough who were indifferent or had negative reactions, mostly because of such castration. Though they are played competently, you will hear less extreme tempos and less of a dynamic range here than in most other recordings of the sonatas. Quite good sound, recorded clearly but not too closely. His proponents have said that he is truer to the score than those "more dramatic" readings. Whether that it true or not if you already have number of recordings of these sonatas this is not a set I would recommend in that I do not think it provides a fresh/interesting perspective (whereas for a first set it might be alright, good sound, can be had relatively cheaply, and the mostly middle-of-the-road performances will not bother those with a passing familiarity of the music). Though I have not done a side-by-side comparison, of the recent cycles, I prefer to listen to Schiff's or Brautigam's (on fortepiano, of course).

[jazz1]

Time to reactivate this old thread

Has anybody heard Paul Lewis' cycle? It was completed last year (I think) and the last instalment has just won Gramophone's "Record of the Year" award. Any opinions?

I've got 2 of Paul Lewis cd's amongst many other interpretations and although they are good, these are not the ones I tend to go back to, I prefer early Baremboim passionate and exuberant playing.

The recording is also more to my liking with less room effects

But this is just me.

Edited October 24, 2008 by jazz1

[J.A.W.]

Time to reactivate this old thread

Has anybody heard Paul Lewis' cycle? It was completed last year (I think) and the last instalment has just won Gramophone's "Record of the Year" award. Any opinions?

I have volumes 2-4 (all three disc sets, I do not have the single disc volume 1 of the op.31 sonatas). These are straightforward performances with less drama than most. Leaving aside the British critics (who have hailed his Schubert and Liszt recordings from a couple of years ago as also great; and truth to tell his Schubert D958 & 959 are not bad) there were enough who were indifferent or had negative reactions, mostly because of such castration. Though they are played competently, you will hear less extreme tempos and less of a dynamic range here than in most other recordings of the sonatas. Quite good sound, recorded clearly but not too closely. His proponents have said that he is truer to the score than those "more dramatic" readings. Whether that it true or not if you already have number of recordings of these sonatas this is not a set I would recommend in that I do not think it provides a fresh/interesting perspective (whereas for a first set it might be alright, good sound, can be had relatively cheaply, and the mostly middle-of-the-road performances will not bother those with a passing familiarity of the music). Though I have not done a side-by-side comparison, of the recent cycles, I prefer to listen to Schiff's or Brautigam's (on fortepiano, of course).

Thanks Gökhan. A respected Dutch critic was also quite enthusiastic about Lewis' performances, that's what made me curious. I think I'll pass, though, I don't need "middle-of-the-road" interpretations.

[Ron S]

Time to reactivate this old thread

Has anybody heard Paul Lewis' cycle? It was completed last year (I think) and the last instalment has just won Gramophone's "Record of the Year" award. Any opinions?

I have volumes 2-4 (all three disc sets, I do not have the single disc volume 1 of the op.31 sonatas). These are straightforward performances with less drama than most. Leaving aside the British critics (who have hailed his Schubert and Liszt recordings from a couple of years ago as also great; and truth to tell his Schubert D958 & 959 are not bad) there were enough who were indifferent or had negative reactions, mostly because of such castration. Though they are played competently, you will hear less extreme tempos and less of a dynamic range here than in most other recordings of the sonatas. Quite good sound, recorded clearly but not too closely. His proponents have said that he is truer to the score than those "more dramatic" readings. Whether that it true or not if you already have number of recordings of these sonatas this is not a set I would recommend in that I do not think it provides a fresh/interesting perspective (whereas for a first set it might be alright, good sound, can be had relatively cheaply, and the mostly middle-of-the-road performances will not bother those with a passing familiarity of the music). Though I have not done a side-by-side comparison, of the recent cycles, I prefer to listen to Schiff's or Brautigam's (on fortepiano, of course).

Thanks Gökhan. A respected Dutch critic was also quite enthusiastic about Lewis' performances, that's what made me curious. I think I'll pass, though, I don't need "middle-of-the-road" interpretations.

Speaking of (and with ) the Dutch, has anyone else been keeping up with Ronald Brautigam's ongoing hybrid-SACD fortepiano Beethoven sonata cycle on BIS? I have all 6 discs issued so far (looks like 2 more discs will complete the sonata cycle), and have thoroughly enjoyed them.

[Quincy]

Speaking of (and with ) the Dutch, has anyone else been keeping up with Ronald Brautigam's ongoing hybrid-SACD fortepiano Beethoven sonata cycle on BIS? I have all 6 discs issued so far (looks like 2 more discs will complete the sonata cycle), and have thoroughly enjoyed them.

I intend to keep up. I have the first 5. Usually the online places are so good at telling me what I want based on past purchases, but I had to go out on my own to discover #6 was out. It's a terrific series.

[Ron S]

Speaking of (and with ) the Dutch, has anyone else been keeping up with Ronald Brautigam's ongoing hybrid-SACD fortepiano Beethoven sonata cycle on BIS? I have all 6 discs issued so far (looks like 2 more discs will complete the sonata cycle), and have thoroughly enjoyed them.

I intend to keep up. I have the first 5. Usually the online places are so good at telling me what I want based on past purchases, but I had to go out on my own to discover #6 was out. It's a terrific series.

You can do like I did, and sign up for the BIS monthly newsletter--which announces new releases--here:

http://www.bis.se/bis_pages/bis_newsletter.php

Also, the best price I've found for these is at buy.com, where they're $13.98 plus $1.90 shipping (if you buy direct from buy.com--they also sell for other merchants like Amazon Marketplace does), and they usually have them in stock before other sellers do.

[Quincy]

You can do like I did, and sign up for the BIS monthly newsletter--which announces new releases--here:

http://www.bis.se/bis_pages/bis_newsletter.php

Also, the best price I've found for these is at buy.com, where they're $13.98 plus $1.90 shipping (if you buy direct from buy.com--they also sell for other merchants like Amazon Marketplace does), and they usually have them in stock before other sellers do.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOO! That's a great price! This is a case where I was ready to pay $20ish and not mind so much as it's high quality, but of course I don't mind saving money either. Thank you much for the tips - off to visit the BIS site to sign up.

[B. Goren.]

No one's answered the questions about the Richard Goode cycle yet - how is it? Never heard his Beethoven either.

Hans, I wonder if you have already had the opportunity to listen to Richard Goode.

[michel devos]

Why the hell would anybody need to publish the umpteenth cycle of Beethoven piano sonatas, considering what is already available on the market in a time range of about 75 years..? And yet, I would like to draw your attention to a set that will be hopefully in the shops end of this year and that will contain the 32 sonatas, the five piano concertos and the nine symphonies transcribed for the piano by Franz Liszt.

The pianist is Idil Biret, and we have recorded these works together over the last twenty years, except for the concertos that were taken care of by a german colleague in Ankara. But that is not a reason good enough to make a recommendation, which I almost never do for my own work. Having also made all the editing sessions of all the works, I can testify of the scrupulous respect of the score that Idil Biret showed for all of the scores.

There will be some people, including myself, that will disagree with some interpretative issues, but no one will be able to fault her for a non-respect of the score : this is, to the coma, the precise reading of the most minute indications Beethoven scribbled on his scores and that only should be enough to make it a reference for every pianist wishing to build his own concept of these formidably challenging works.

Also nice, the price is under 9$ when bought separately. For those interested, more infos here http://www.idilbiretarchive.eu/Beethoven_Edition.htm

But don't forget Barenboim...

[AllenLowe]

well, if he played it while in a coma, I will be the first one to purchase it.

Edited October 6, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Larry Kart]

Got this currently o.o.p. set:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Piano-Sonatas-Box/dp/B0001Z4PUK/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

some three years ago and am very taken with it. Don't recall what led me to it; though I did know Lucchesini for his recordings of works by Berio, I wouldn't think that in itself would be reason enough. Whatever, he's very good. They're live performances, too, FWIW, with quiet audiences.

[Peter Friedman]

Got this currently o.o.p. set:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Piano-Sonatas-Box/dp/B0001Z4PUK/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

some three years ago and am very taken with it. Don't recall what led me to it; though I did know Lucchesini for his recordings of works by Berio, I wouldn't think that in itself would be reason enough. Whatever, he's very good. They're live performances, too, FWIW, with quiet audiences.

I bought this set a few years and very much like it.