WTF Bill Cosby!!!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Thanks to Allen for this one...

[AllenLowe]

 

So his deposition shows that he slipped those drugs to women without their consent? 

yes, thank you, exactly.

Edited July 10, 2015 by AllenLowe

[Scott Dolan]

It did? 

I must have missed that part. 

[Larry Kart]

It did? 

I must have missed that part. 

You're right, Scott, as far as I can tell. Cosby admits in the deposition that he gave Quaaludes to several women in order to have sex with them, but he doesn't admit to giving them Quaaludes without their knowledge -- his lawyer objected to that line of questioning thusly:

Q. Did you ever give any of those young women the Quaaludes without their knowledge?

MR. O’CONNOR: Object to the question. Restrict it to the Jane Does, would you, please

and that objection was allowed to stand for reasons that are not made clear. 

From an entry on deposition rules:

" A person [e.g., in this case, Cosby's lawyer] may instruct a deponent not to answer only when necessary to preserve a privilege, to enforce a limitation ordered by the court, or to present a motion under Rule 30(d)(3)." What privilege was being preserved here, or what limitation ordered by the court was  being enforced, I don't know. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Larry Kart

[JSngry]

Shark jumped when lawyers pleaded for testimony to not be released to the public because it would be embarrassing.

After that, the material started writing itself.

[Scott Dolan]

I would have fought for supression as well.

Sensationalist media + gullible society = smoking gun!!! 

It does seem like Cosby engaged in criminal act, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit at this point to find out that he did. 

But the information from this released deposition shows, well...nothing really. 

[Rooster_Ties]

So his deposition shows that he slipped those drugs to women without their consent? 

Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.  And there's been a shit-ton of smoke surrounding Cosby, with close to 30 accusers.

 

I for one am relieved that some real evidence seems to have come to light, one way or the other.

 

The court of public opinion is the least desirable jurisdiction/venue to render judgement, but given the statute of limitations, it may be all that's left - short of what will surely be civil cases.

 

But better the world have a sense of where the wind is blowing on this now, than never.

[AllenLowe]

1) 25 women claimed to be drugged and raped by Cosby.

2) Cosby admits to giving them a drug that would incapacitate them.

too bad I didn't go to law school. I forgot that the truth is only that which is stated in a court of law.

 

Edited July 11, 2015 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

1) 25 women claimed to be drugged and raped by Cosby.

2) Cosby admits to giving them a drug that would incapacitate them.

Uhhhhh....Cosby admits to buying Quaaludes, but not to giving them to anybody, especially not the 25 women who claimed to have been drugged and raped by him.

See, that's why people do go to law school, thank god.

I say he should be sentenced to house arrest for the remainder of his natural life, just him and Camille (when she feels like it) in a silent, windowless room, with Pudding Pops on the hour, 24/7, 365. Let's see how long he holds up under those conditions.

[Scott Dolan]

1) 25 women claimed to be drugged and raped by Cosby.

2) Cosby admits to giving them a drug that would incapacitate them.

too bad I didn't go to law school. I forgot that the truth is only that which is stated in a court of law.

 

Allen, I'm sorry I missed that part. Can you please link me to the admission that Cosby made about giving those drugs to women to incapacitate them? 

Again, this is the problem when you combine a sensationalist media with a public steeped in the practice of confirmation bias. The media presents something that really isn't there, and the people exclaim, "look!!!! There it is!!!" 

[AllenLowe]

wake up boys:

"Cosby was asked by a lawyer, “When you got the quaaludes [in the 1970s], was it in your mind that you were going to use these quaaludes for young women that you wanted to have sex with?” Cosby answered, “Yes.”

YOU DONT GIVE QUAALUDES TO A WOMEN IN ORDER TO HAVE SEX AND EXPECT THEY WILL BE AWAKE AND CONSENTING!

and if this is not enough for you, Scott, every one of these women has testified to waking up with no memory or a foggy memory - of being undressed and raped, and of having woken up feeling sore and in pain.

if that's your idea of consent, you need some serious education.

it's over.

 

Edited July 12, 2015 by AllenLowe

[Rooster_Ties]

Thank you, Allen.  The handwriting on the wall (now, finally) is as clear as day, and it's a shame that people still want to see wiggle room in Cosby's alibi ("yeah, but he never admitted it wasn't consensual").  No shit, Sherlock -- he never did, and that's not likely to ever happen.

I wasn't yet (personally) 'completely sure' of the likelyhook of his guilt until this transcript became unsealed -- though as I said before, I do subscribe strongly to the "where there's smoke, there's usually fire" line of thought.

 

But this is nearly the nail in the coffin, as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully some civil cases will further add some clarity, if not for the public, at least for the victims.

 

[JSngry]

I do not object to the assumption of the overwhelming likelihood of Cosby's guilt. I share it myself.

I do, however, object people saying that somebody "said" something when that something is part one of statement combined with a set of circumstances not (yet) tied to the events which said statement pertains. That's just sloppy logic, not too far, if at all, removed from Donald Trump Land.

The noose of Truth is tightening, Rushing to pull it tighter yet with some emo anger logic will only give it a chance to come loose again. Of such things are "legal technicalities" born, and rather than bitching about their existence, the smart thing to do is to understand how they work, and then have a system that does it damnedest to avoid triggering them so that the truth cannot help but will out.

[Scott Dolan]

wake up boys:

"Cosby was asked by a lawyer, “When you got the quaaludes [in the 1970s], was it in your mind that you were going to use these quaaludes for young women that you wanted to have sex with?” Cosby answered, “Yes.”

YOU DONT GIVE QUAALUDES TO A WOMEN IN ORDER TO HAVE SEX AND EXPECT THEY WILL BE AWAKE AND CONSENTING!

and if this is not enough for you, Scott, every one of these women has testified to waking up with no memory or a foggy memory - of being undressed and raped, and of having woken up feeling sore and in pain.

if that's your idea of consent, you need some serious education.

it's over.

 

You do realize that quaaludes are used as an aphrodisiac, right? You do realize that both men and women used them for that purpose, right? 

You do realize that by Cosby answering the question the way he did meant that he was possibly intending to use that drug the way MANY people did, especially in the 70's and 80's, right? You do realize that there is absolutely zero evidence that any woman was slipped those drugs without consent, right? 

You do realize that most times when people go back to a hotel room with a famous figure/stranger they're not doing so to play a mean round of parchisi, right? 

If not, you're far more naive than I gave you credit for. 

[page]

Now whether it is with or without consent, the fact is someone can feel intimidated f.e. when it is someone who is your boss, or has some other major role above your own which you depend on, it can be hard to not get up into something you'd rather not end up in. I think there was a model who told she was very young and felt that way. I think that sort of thing needs to be considered too. Of course in case of without consent, there is no question that it is wrong, but with consent, one have to consider what the relation was between the two. Not that I mean to say all women are helpless and wouldn't dare to refuse, but when you are really young, that isn't all that easy. In my country there is a court case going on about a girl of 16 that got exploited by a lover boy. I don't know who all these women are mixed up in this case, but I remember at least one on the news that said she never dared to tell anyone after it happened and felt intimidated. Telling something like that happened to you is really not something you want to share with anyone. So it doesn't surprise me women are coming forward after so many years.

[Scott Dolan]

Did Cosby lord over any of these women professionally? 

[clifford_thornton]

As a message board mostly made up of men, we likely won't ever understand what it means to be a woman in this society and the many ways in which rape culture plays out. I doubt that many of us have been assaulted, but I bet quite a few of the women we know have been. I'm sure Cosby's shit is familiar enough to our girlfriends, wives, and friends.

[Scott Dolan]

Yes, most of our wives, girlfriends, and female friends have been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted. 

[Larry Kart]

Did Cosby lord over any of these women professionally? 

Not sure what you mean by "lord over any of these women professionally?" but by their accounts his status as star entertainer certainly played a crucial role (as one might expect) in his encountering them and their encountering him. I don't recall, again by their accounts, that after they had sex he wanted to have anything more to do with them, personally or professionally. Well, that's not quite right -- when one of the women, a college student, contacted him to ask for an apology for what she said he had done, he proposed setting up an educational fund for her, with monies to be supplied as long as  she maintained a 3.0 grade point average.

[Scott Dolan]

No, Page mentioned something about being a boss or someone who has a major role over yours. 

Was that the case with any of these women. Or were they simply "hook ups" between a famous individual and star struck fans/star fuckers/etc.? 

[jlhoots]

No, Page mentioned something about being a boss or someone who has a major role over yours. 

Was that the case with any of these women. Or were they simply "hook ups" between a famous individual and star struck fans/star fuckers/etc.? 

You pick some strange causes to defend - you're entitled to do that, but what do you really believe about Dr. Huxtable??

[Scott Dolan]

I would have fought for supression as well.

Sensationalist media + gullible society = smoking gun!!! 

It does seem like Cosby engaged in criminal act, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit at this point to find out that he did. 

But the information from this released deposition shows, well...nothing really. 

Does the post quoted here help you, Mr. hoots?

And the "cause I'm defending" is American jurisprudence and the fact that evidence of wrong doing is the most important aspect of condemning an individual. 

Perhaps that is unimportant to you? It seems to be to many. 

[Larry Kart]

Camille Cosby, who previously had said that all Cosby's accusers were lying when they said that he had sex with him, now says that she has known for years that her husband was a serial philanderer but that she also knows that all of Cosby's accusers consented to have sex with him:

http://nypost.com/2015/07/12/bill-cosbys-wife-says-accusers-consented-to-drugs-and-sex/

 

Strange line from this story -- Camille, speaking of her husband: "I created him."
 

Edited July 13, 2015 by Larry Kart

[JSngry]

I don't find that line strange at all..a bit grandiose, perhaps, but in the sense that she probably could have destroyed his career (or at least the career he's had based on the image he's made for himself) at probably damn near any point over the last half-century, not strange.

I'll say this - I don't know anybody who is married to a habitually "wandering" spouse who doesn't know it inside, no matter what front they put on it to public, friends, family, even to each other. An intimacy betrayed yet continued is perhaps the deepest intimacy of all. Myself, I think its also the most twisted, but...I can only speculate about that.

To that end - the key to these allegations and their criminality is "consensual", and it's my opinion that even an encounter that begins with an air of mutual consent becomes decidedly non-consensual when one party is drugged without their knowledge or consent. I don't know if that's the law's opinion as well, but I would certainly hope that it is. "Impaired state" or something.

But if you can get that to stick - that it was in fact non-consensual due to the plaintiff(s) not giving consent to all of it in a sober (enough) condition, then you have Bill Cosby, Felon. Otherwise, you just have Bill Cosby, FuckYouAssholeYouBetrayedAnEntireFuckingCiviliazationGoddamitFUCKYOU. Because, sure, everybody makes mistakes, and yeah, playas gonna play, but unless and until DrugRape becomes A Noble Pursuit For Humanity To Pursue Until Perfected, yeah, fuck you Bill Cosby, FUCK YOU. That's a public life devoted to some moving some meaningful shit wasted.

Ideas still valuable, but ideas tend to need a face to really steamroll, and whose face is there to use now? Cosby was, hell still is, a unique set of factors to bring to the table, the man himself no doubt pompous as hell sometimes, but, education? self-image? self-reliance? self-respect? jazz? parenting responsibilities? economic imperatives? Fuck it if Bill Cosby was an insufferable asshole sometimes,, he carried some weight anyway, easily rolled eyes at, but not so easily dismissed out of hand.

And now...how much weight do you feel comfortable letting a not yet convicted but very quite probably a Serial Drug Rapist carry in questions of moral and cultivar imperatives and directions? Once a respectable distance has passed after their death, yeah, there's that conversation to be had of individual demons vs contribution to the greater good. But while still alive, and while still asking the legal system to protect them from "embarrassment? Hmmmmm....

Otherwise, the odds that every Cosby Accuser really did consent to DrugSex and have now been hired by some giant post-Hoover Right Wing Fascist-Capitalist agenda to destroy EVERY Black Hero that America has ever had are not zero (that would require some laws of physics being broken, and behavior is not yet physics...not yet, and I for one do not yet feel all that comfortable with letting go of the notion of a giant post-Hoover Right Wing Fascist-Capitalist agenda to destroy EVERY Black Hero that America has ever had ), but are pretty damn close to it.

I guess the one lesson we can take from this is the same lesson we always take from things like this - you want a hero, be your own goddamned hero. Otherwise, take your inspirations where you find them and keep on moving.

 

 

[Scott Dolan]

 

I guess the one lesson we can take from this is the same lesson we always take from things like this - you want a hero, be your own goddamned hero. Otherwise, take your inspirations where you find them and keep on moving.

 

 

Afuckingmen to that!