AOW 09/21-09/27 is Wilbur Harden & John Coltrane

[Dmitry]

Wilbur Harden / John Coltrane - Complete Savoy Sessions (click here to buy)

Been spinning these, thought they'd make a pretty good aow pick. And a couple of spin-off stories about Wilbur Harden, if we're lucky.

Edited March 31, 2006 by Jim Alfredson

[Jim R]

You didn't mention Trane, but I assume you're talking about the Harden/Coltrane set that came out a few years back, yes? I just mention it because that set does not quite equal the complete Harden on Savoy (he also did the outstanding KING & I session with Tommy Flanagan, and was also a sideman on one of Curtis Fuller's Savoys).

Okay, so I'm a nitpicker.

[Dmitry]

Amended for Jim.

This is the AOW's foray into the multi-disc sets, if I'm not mistaken. Also, this is not cheap, around $27. But worth every cent.

[JSngry]

A somewhat overlooked, yet significant, I think, portion of Trane's pre-Atlantic & beyond output. Worth every cent indeed!

[JohnS]

Great choice, I'll look forward to spinning these again.

[BeBop]

Great choice...for the first week during which I will have an opportunity to participate. Yes, I will actually have access to a CD and player for the first time in ages. Looking forward to it.

[Dmitry]

[DrJ]

Cool! I don't have this and haven't heard any of the music, but have been meaning to check it out...hope I can get it in time to join the major discussion.

[Brad]

I have to confess that I bought this when it first came out and haven't listened to it. Guess what I'm going to do right now

[king ubu]

Great choice, Dmitry! I only recently got the 2CD set. Had a double LP (Countdown) and a single Savoy/Denon CD before. Always loved that stuff!

ubu

[JohnS]

This is my kind of music. I've lived with the quintet tracks since they first came out on the aptly titled "Mainstream 1958". Harden has a lovely tone, relaxed and easy going. Trane leaps out at you with his trademark startling opening phrases. My favourite track is Snuffy with it's fine opening solo by Tommy Flanagan. Nice sound by RVG on my "Complete Countdown" Savoy cd issue. Harden's compositions are tasty too.

The sextet tracks (I still have Savoy/Arista lps) are fine but not quite so enthralling. Doug Watkins from the quintet sessions is sorely missed.

Savoy made a lot of very successful albums many of which seem undervalued today, maybe because of the haphazard reissue situation over the years.

[Shrdlu]

I've loved this music ever since I first heard it on LP, though I did not have all of it until the 2 CD set appeared. Wilbur sure does have a lovely sound, and Trane really digs in on these tracks. Having Tommy Flanagan is a great bonus, too.

These sessions seem to have been a "tit for tat" deal with Prestige, as Harden was used on a Trane-led Prestige date at about the same time - also well worth having if you don't already have it.

I agree with you, John, about Tommy's opening solo on "Snuffy". That introductory solo break has incredible timing, reminiscent of Louis Armstrong's "West End Blues" opening for quality. It seems simple, but you try even to hum it!

This set is of great importance.

It seems that some of the stereo session reels have been lost, as there is a mix of mono and stereo, even on the same date. Perhaps LP masters are all that survive.

On which Fuller session does Harden appear, and where can one buy it, and the "King And I" CD? Savoy CDs are not exactly found in every store.

[Dmitry]

I've been listening to Indian music on a great 3-lp set my friend gave to me for the past coupla days, but Harden was in heavy rotation prior this week.

---

Aside from Coltrane's work with Miles these are my favorite Coltrane's recordings with a trumpet player.

They are on the same level here, Harden and Coltrane, playing like equal partners.

The rest of the guys play equally well.

Of course, reading the short life story of Harden is a sad microcosm in itself.

Just to bitch - In addition to somewhat muddy sound the alternate takes following the issued takes and not in the end is kind of annoying. That's where the program button comes in play.

My favorite cut - Once In a While !

[catesta]

I just placed an order for this, I'm looking forward to hearing what I've been missing.

[Jim R]

On which Fuller session does Harden appear, and where can one buy it, and the "King And I" CD? Savoy CDs are not exactly found in every store.

Harden appears on "Images Of Curtis Fuller" (Savoy 12164), recorded in a couple of sessions in1960. Personnel: Curtis Fuller,Yusef Lateef,Wilbur Harden,McCoy Tyner,Jimmy Garrison,Clifford Jarvis, Lee Morgan,Milt Hinton,Bobby Donaldson. Tracks: accident,darryl's minor,be back ta-reckla,judyful,new date (Japanese CD included alternates of accident,darryl's minor, and new date).

This title as well as "The King & I" were part of the Denon CD series. They may be somewhat difficult to track down now... not sure. I think "Images" was released more recently in mini-LP form.

"The King & I" is one of my favorite jazz CD's- period.

[Larry Kart]

Others who were around back then can confirm or disagee, but my experience was that encountering Coltrane on "Mainstream '58" in the context of that time was absolutely thrilling/shocking, even if (or especially if) you already were familiar with and knocked out by "Blue Train" and all the various Prestige dates from '57-8, under his own name and as a sideman, that flank "Mainstream." Fo whatever reasons, the phase of/style of Trane that Ira Gitler dubbed "sheets of sound" made ( or seemed to make, in terms of recordings) its full debut here, and again it was thrilling/shocking. I think that Trane's partners here had a lot to do with this -- in particular the several sorts of fairly extreme "laid-backness" that Harden and Louis Hayes display e.g. the former's slow-mo lyricism and the latter's glassily even, behind-the-beat ride cymbal work. Together with Doug Watkins' marvelously precise and also fairly laid-back time feel (laid-back by comparison with P. Chamber's more forward-leaning approach), this perhaps gave Trane just the sort of backdrop -- at once very alive yet kind of "neutral," if you know what I mean (a la, maybe the Basie Band rhythm section of the late '30s) -- that left him free to dump all the snakes out of the sack.

[king ubu]

I think that Trane's partners here had a lot to do with this -- in particular the several sorts of fairly extreme "laid-backness" that Harden and Louis Hayes display e.g. the former's slow-mo lyricism and the latter's glassily even, behind-the-beat ride cymbal work. Together with Doug Watkins' marvelously precise and also fairly laid-back time feel (laid-back by comparison with P. Chamber's more forward-leaning approach), this perhaps gave Trane just the sort of backdrop -- at once very alive yet kind of "neutral," if you know what I mean (a la, maybe the Basie Band rhythm section of the late '30s) -- that left him free to dump all the snakes out of the sack.

Wow Lawrence! This strikes me as a very good description of what the rhythm section on the quintet sides is about! They certainly have a laid-back feel, coupled with Flanagan's cool, maybe even slightly distached feel, this makes up for a perfect mix.

Chiming in a little late, but only yesterday found the time to listen to parts of this album. Thanks to Dmitry for making such a fine choice!

Some thoughts:

All those Harden compositions sure are very fine. They fit in the hard bop style perfectly, yet they have something that makes them different - while I don't know what exactly it is, I sure appreciate that.

Then Harden's lyricism is wonderful. I never actually liked him that much on that Coltrane session (also from 1957, on Prestige). He has a wonderful, warm style of playing (while there are parallels for sure, in this respect he seems to me quite far away from the cool stylings of Miles).

Coltrane (of course) is mind-boggling! I find him great on all his recordings from that time (1957 being the year he probably recorded most). He is overwhelming, yet does not overpower the whole date - these are NO Coltrane dates!

The opening track of the first CD is the first highlight of the set. The groove's so tight and the solos are cool, too, can't help liking it!

Then the sextet dates (I have listened to the second only once, some weeks ago, so I'm only talking about the first one right now): first, there is a clear difference in the time the rhythm section sets up. They're less overtly laid-back, yet I like them almost as good (sure, the great GREAT foundation of Watkins is missed, but his replacement does no bad job either. And maybe it's the fate of Art Taylor that everybody knows his style inside-out because everybody own at least half a dozen mid-to-late fifties dates with him on the drum chair).

Curtis Fuller's full sound is captured quite well on these tracks (despite the otherwise relatively muddy sound), and I love his playing here (I am not a huge fan of his, though I like the Mosaic quite well, also like the recordings he made with Blakey).

Once In A While is the best track of that first sextet date. Wonderful solos by Harden and Fuller (he, too, plays overtly lyrical here), and Trane tearing things up.

Then, what's the matter after the drum solo on Andedac? Is there an edit or do they lose it completely? Everything is upside-down, before the theme settles again in a slower tempo than before. Is this only a problem of my ears?

Will report back after having listened to the second sextet date.

ubu

[king ubu]

Finally came around listening to the third session. While Gold Coast is a very good performance, and the other tracks (while quite far from any african influence) are good, too, the real jewel of this date is "Oomba", in my opinion. A perfectly shaped and performed small masterpiece. Modal sounds, short solos, Trane at the height of his art, Fuller showing off his beautiful sound, and Harden in charge of everything. Art Taylor is very good on this one, too, shading the whole performance with a stunning display of his abilities - an undersung drum hero.

ubu

[Dmitry]

What was the last recorded session Harden took part in?

Anyone has any info on Harden's whereabouts and life prior to disappearance, in addition to Keepnews' written effort?

[mikeweil]

The Keepnews liner notes in the Savoy double CD are about as much as you can find. Harden's last recording was the aborted Curtis Fuller session during which he "fell ill". Only one track was releasable.

[DrJ]

My first exposure to this music was this weekend, finally located a copy at a decent price. My initial impression is - wow, very fine music indeed! Nicely remastered Van Gelder recordings really help bring the most out in the music...Watkins' sound is so well-captured here!

Trane sounds superb here, and it's hard to add to the very perceptive comments about his contributions that have already been made. Harden's compositions are tasty, and I like his playing a lot...have the Curtis Fuller IMAGES mini-LP edition Jim R mentions and have been enjoying it for some time, including his contributions.

I'd love to hear THE KING & I someday!

[chris]

You didn't mention Trane, but I assume you're talking about the Harden/Coltrane set that came out a few years back, yes? I just mention it because that set does not quite equal the complete Harden on Savoy (he also did the outstanding KING & I session with Tommy Flanagan, and was also a sideman on one of Curtis Fuller's Savoys).

I'm resurrecting this thread because I just received this set as a gift. I'd never heard of it before, nor had I heard Harden (to my knowledge). An intriguing story that adds another dimension to some fine, fine music.

Guess I have to add another obsession to my growing list and search out that "The King and I" album!

[JohnS]

Just played the Quintet tracks again. Stunning stuff. Harden's compositions are great, and he has a lovely tone. Coltrane sounds as good as he gets at this period. Can't fault the rhythm team, Watkins especially is spot on. Fabulous music

[sidewinder]

Just played the Quintet tracks again. Stunning stuff. Harden's compositions are great, and he has a lovely tone. Coltrane sounds as good as he gets at this period. Can't fault the rhythm team, Watkins especially is spot on. Fabulous music

Thanks for raising this one. Arista/Savoy Lps will be dug out - always ben a favourite !

Harden uses amazingly few notes on the flugel but he learned well from Miles Davis in making every one count !

[Kyo]

Listened to the quintet session from the Coltrane Prestige box set yesterday, good stuff. I'll be getting this Savoy set soon, thanks for resurrecting this thread.