Michael Fitzgerald

The Trip album (Yester Me, Yester You) appears to have 15 tracks, duplicating 9 of the 11 on the Canyon album. You would need to own both to have everything. Discographies list this from 1974, between CTI and Fantasy. But I might be persuaded to believe 1970 due to the repertoire: "Yester Me, Yester You" and "Let It Be" and "Ma Cherie Amour" and "Wedding Bell Blues" are all 1969-1970 pop. "Let It Be" did not come out until 1970 (March for the single, May for the album). The presence of Monk Higgins seems to suggest that period as well. I don't see any other jazz activity for him in 1974. Mike

The assertion that Miles was "responsible" for smooth jazz was not made by you. My point was that while we can credit (or blame) Miles for fusion, his involvement with smooth jazz is quite different. By the time he had a chance to influence anything about it the horse had left the gate. Mike

Way to go. Mike P.S. - appreciated the entire quoted material.

Well, yes, but next are you going to say that you do like Spyro Gyra? Mike

Yeah, but Henry Grimes plays better bass. Mike

I wouldn't mind seeing Jarrett back with Garbarek, Danielsson, and Christensen. I kind of think that one more likely than the American band, of which I've heard accounts of quite a bit of bad blood. Mike

By the time Miles Davis came back in 1980, the smooth jazz stuff was already firmly in place. Think 1974 or earlier for Bob James, Earl Klugh, Grover Washington, Jr. and then 1976-1977 for Mangione's change of band, and Stuff, Grusin, Lorber, Spyro Gyra. During that period, Miles was very much absent. I don't doubt that Miles was significant to smooth jazz players, but he didn't pioneer it like he did with other styles. When he did come back he had his own take on things, as could have been expected. Mike

I really don't think the problem is "you like a band that others don't" - not at all. The problem is that there is great reluctance to call a spade a spade. Maybe it's a fear to accept that "you like a band that is a smooth jazz band". Well, that's *one* of the problems. Mike

There are dreams of a reunion of the band from Perry Robinson's first album, Funk Dumpling (Savoy, 1962): Perry, Kenny Barron, Henry Grimes, Paul Motion. I don't know that Perry and Henry have taken any steps towards this. Mike

One track on "Heavy Sounds" on Impulse (Elvin's Guitar Blues). As a guitarist, Elvin was no Billy Higgins. Mike

NASSA stands for "unadulterated quality"???? I thought it stood for Negro American Space Society of Astronauts. http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/ Oh - Nessa - never mind. Mike

Gotta love that "ignorance" shot. Yeah - pot, kettle, black. Mike

No, not all Chuck Mangione is smooth jazz. But what he was doing in 1977 and later is quite different from what he was doing in 1972. If you think that Spyro Gyra can actually BE a blues band or a Latin band, then you don't know what a blues band or a Latin band actually sounds like. I wonder if you have even heard any of the first five Jeff Lorber albums. Lorber and Spyro Gyra in that period were mining the same lode, almost exactly. The same cannot be said for Miles Davis. I'm not taking a position on Led Zeppelin and heavy metal, but a "heavy blues band" doesn't work. By the third album, there was only one blues tune. I consider them a bit more sui generis. Rather expectedly, a heavy blues band is a band that plays blues and does it in a "heavy" style - sure LZ could do that, but why don't we call them a "folk band" since they did repertoire borrowed from Joan Baez and Bert Jansch? But that was only part of them. Why don't we call them a funk band since they did that James Brown bit? Because it's not an accurate description of all they did. Jay Beckenstein might not want his band associated with bad smooth jazz stuff, but sure, why wouldn't he want to imply that his band is special, not the same as all those folks? It's a good marketing policy decision, but it's not based in any kind of fact. Go on and SHOUT YOUR INSISTENCE!!! BUT YOUR SHOUTING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!! Mike

When it comes down to it, yes, Spyro Gyra IS a smooth jazz band. They - along with Dave Grusin, Bob James, Grover Washington, Chuck Mangione, and folks like that - invented the genre. They're not a funk band, they're not a Latin band, they're not a jazz band, they're not a rock band, they're not a fusion band. They take bits of each of those and put it together in a largely unthreatening "easier listening" style. Does it take talent to do this well? Sure. The guys who play in Spyro Gyra have some chops - not necessarily a lot of taste, but they can get around on their instruments, they can handle the chord changes. Compositionally, there's a lot of formulaic stuff happening. Lots of vamp-oriented stuff. It's about the "groove" more than about melodic, harmonic, or rhythmic development. The tunes are "songs" more than they are "compositions" if we can understand that distinction. Now, if we can just accept that there is such a thing as a "good smooth jazz band", then we might be able to say that Spyro Gyra is a good smooth jazz band. Mike

This is the same guy. Motherhood was Klaus Doldinger's band. Jackson was also on Doldinger's Passport album on Atlantic. Mike

Phil Woods has one like that - is it "Bop Stew"? Mike

Not all takes, but the three tunes are on "The Best Of Duke Ellington" on Signature 45257. Used for $1.95 - can't beat that with a stick. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...388801?v=glance Mike

There are tracks in this set that are NOT in the Mosaic - three from the Storyville gig, I believe. And yes, I know the set limits/concepts are not the same (Roost Getz vs. Getz w/Raney), but I mean newly discovered stuff that *would* have made it into the Mosaic set. Mike

Maynard Ferguson did a record with Alan Haven in the late 1960s. Haven't ever heard it, but it's not a priority for me. Mike

I would say that interpolation generally refers to longer passages (maybe even an entire piece). If it's just a brief passing reference, quotation is probably the term needed. Most of kind of thing done during improvised jazz solos is quotation. I would say that Dexter Gordon playing the first eight notes of "Here Comes The Bride" at the start of an improvised blues chorus is quotation, while Stan Getz playing the entire melody of Gigi Gryce's piece "Eleanor" as part of an arrangement of "Jumpin' With Symphony Sid' is interpolation. Mike

Your initial response "I can't believe I tried this here" sounds like frustration. But maybe it's just simple amazement. "Why am I wasting my time" - now THAT's got to be frustration. Are you really surprised that people believe that you're frustrated? Now, who can answer this definitively: is Jay Beckenstein (born in Brooklyn, 1951) the son of the great session woodwind player Ray Beckenstein (born in Brooklyn, 1923)? It always seemed to be logical to me, but I can't find it in any web blurb. Mike

Well, perhaps you believe that just because everyone is entitled to his opinion that everyone's opinion is of equal worth. And it may be a long time before you realize that isn't the case. Might never happen. Can't help there. Mike

Yeah, but when we try to go out, the burglar-deterring automatic light-switcher-onner is kind of lacking when the bulb blows as it switches on....... Tom, thanks for the inside scoop. I guess this filament shaving scheme connects up nicely with that recent thread about "gaslighting". Mike

A tight band - that's decent musicianship. End of story. The local high school jazz band can rehearse until they're tight. I will agree with Samuels - Spyro Gyra DO respect the idea of soloing and improvisation. They do NOT simply paraphrase the melody over and over like some smooth jazz folks do. Samuels got a good deal because they got his name spread around very nicely (but I doubt that many SG fans have his stuff with Gerry Mulligan or his ECM records with Double Image and others). And Samuels certainly helped SG keep some kind of jazz credibility. But I still don't think you are in a position to say definitively what kept him in the band. For years he was just a guest, getting paid to play on the records. At some point maybe he cut bait with his own solo career and decided to get on the gravy train. Can't fault him - look at so many others who toured with big bands, played in Broadway pits, etc. However, "top notch playing" - compared to what? Compared to smooth jazz stuff? Sure, and I said as much. Compared to most rock folks? Sure, I'll go along with that. But compared to serious jazz players? Sorry, nope. When these guys were getting noticed, the Pat Metheny Group and the last versions of Weather Report were going. And there ain't no comparison in terms of the musicianship and musicality. SG is more in line with the Jeff Lorber Fusion - occasional nice stuff, but nothing monumental. So, you asked your question, you got an answer you didn't like (from someone who isn't ignorant of the music). Why ask the question in the first place? You wanted 10 people to just say "Yeah! Spyro Gyra ROCKS!" ? Mike

If you call that first album "100% funk" - we aren't speaking a common language and it may be very difficult to communicate here. Occasional nice melodies, decent (if limited) musicianship. Beckenstein cannot get out of the pentatonic rut. The Coltrane tribute based on Naima really doesn't cut it, but I award points for even trying. This band and actual jazz music have a few things in common, but they're not the same. BTW, I never could figure out if Dave Samuels was playing in that band just for the money or what. Anything past the mid 1980s (dawn of CD 101.9 radio) I have simply avoided. Certainly they are head and shoulders above the billions of pale imitations, but there is very little nutrition in their musical candyfloss. Mike