The Magnificent Goldberg

Wasn't hip then. What was hip in the early sixties was 'The Doctor's boogie' - Dr Feelgood & the Interns; 'Soul motion' - Don & Dewey; 'I got a woman' - Jimmy McGriff; 'So far away' - Hank Jacobs; 'You can't sit down' - Phil Upchurch. What you mean is, it was what the excessively unhip THOUGHT was hip. Sorry, but that never counted. MG

The Interns Dr Kildare The Skatalites

Billy Strayhorn Stray Dogs Straw Men

Anything left, Bill? (Though I haven't much room.) MG

Yeah! That's the REAL thing, and it goes better with Coke. In 20-30 years' time, see who owns Blue Note, Prestige, Chess, Atlantic, PJ, Contemporary etc. And more important, who owns Blue Horizon Music, Groove Music, Arc Music, Prestige Music, Ecaroh Music, the publishing for Benny Golson's songs, or Monk's etc. MG

Fatty Arbuckle Belter Records George Brace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brace%27s_Bakery

Tell ya next month! Some of my new raves are in my blindfold test MG

Jim Horn (Duane Eddy's tenor player) Al Casey (the guitarist with Duane Eddy) Al Casey (the guitarist with Mr Waller)

There's a whole industry of "cultural ownership" that has variously vested interests in keeping this general repertoire in some version of the public eye. You'll be hearing them in movies, commercials, "projects", reading about them in books, etc. for as long as the profit incentive is working. It often has nothing to do with the song itself, much more to do with "cache", "culture", etc. Plant the seed, water the dirt, reap the harvest. Lather, rinse, repeat. As with most things, follow the money. You're right, and I see some of this stuff when I pass through the lounge. Mostly, you'll find that it's not stuff that's out of copyright. You won't find Hot Fives tracks being played, or McKinney's Cotton Pickers. But you probably will find copyright songs which will carry on until 50 years after the composer's death. But every year, fewer and fewer. Will they be finding things from the nineties? Hm, doubt it. MG

I agree with you TTK, people who knew those standards are dead or dying. But I think it's not a function of the succession of generations, it's because of the fragmentation of popular music into tinier and tinier compartments. It hasn't happened to classical music. Although some people like me have extremely limited or specialised taste in classical music (French chamber music forever!), the majority of people who like classical music like a very wide range of kinds of music and composers of different lands and eras, and they themselves live all over the world and the present lot are the umpteenth generation of their kind. And this was the case long before the emergence of 'marketing' as a tool of the recording industry. So I don't think there was anything inevitable about the compartmentalisation of music and audiences; it's just the strategy that happened to be selected by the major companies, the radio industry and Uncle Tom Cobley. But it won't - and probably can't - be undone now. So we're left with a few people who remember those songs, plus a bunch of jazz musicians who've learned them and who seem to be happy to play them for a diminishing audience, larger and larger proportions of which aren't actually interested in those old songs, whether they're 'Nica's dream', 'Since I fell for you', 'After hours' or 'Hucklebuck' and I'm pretty sure I don't see why they keep playing them rather than something the audiences know and love. But, as I said earlier, some songs keep coming back because something about them has the capacity to satisfy listeners' entertainment needs at different points in time and place. They're not necessarily very good, not very interesting, but there's just something there that people can make into something not necessarily anything like what's gone before but not necessarily unlike, either. And under the conditions in which popular music is run, those are the songs that seem to be the real standards. Being a 'standard part of the repertoire' that no one's interested in doesn't always seem to be a transfixing point of interest. MG

Eterscel Mor, King of Tara & High King of Ireland Mess Buachalla, (his enforced missus) Eochu Feidlech (his father-in-law)

Standards aren't standards unless they're very well and broadly known by audiences. The gradual segmentation of radio, and consequently the music heard on radio, has increasingly mitigated against the creation of standards. No one's at fault for this; the segmentation was an essential component of the things that were necessary as the record industry struggled for survival, as it lurched from crisis to crisis from 1921 to 1949, and left its marks on the company owners for years until it became just part of the way things were. One element of the segmentation was the development of black radio (and black-oriented record companies). But an industrial strategy shouldn't blind (deafen) us to what the music's like. And Jim, I'm sure you don't seriously think that Bill Doggett, Billy Butler, Clifford Scott, Paul Williams, Phil Guilbeau, Jimmy Forrest and Johnny Mixon weren't jazz musicians. MG

Interesting ways of defining standards... Another way is to think of songs that just won't go away, but keep coming back. Some are jazz songs: In 2010, 'The hucklebuck' was a hit in Ireland for an Irish country band, Crystal Swing. Numerous hits between 1948 and 2010, of course. 'Honky tonk' is another jazz tune that's had lots of play since forever. And 'Night train'; the strippers' favourite. Now THAT'S the way to make money out of your copyright! MG

Gotta say, I love piano trios... OK, AND organ trios! But piano trios... there were some lovely trio records made in that period (but also LOTS in the sixties). Yes to: Hampton Hawes - ANY trio, right the way through Phineas Newborn - Ditto though I like his later stuff with Ray Brown and Elvin Jones best Red Garland - exploring Red more and more lately and liking so much of it Les McCann - just started at the end of the fifties and truly my all time favourite, but I know lots of people can't be arsed over him; but I think there's one early 45 of his that I haven't got Junior Mance - only got one gig on record as a trio leader in the fifties, but another all time favourite Duke Bleeding Ellington!!!!!! 'Piano in in the goddamn foreground'!!!! Worth all of everything everyone else has done. And 'Summertime' is one of the filthiest records ever made. Ahmad Jamal's trio work for Cadet/Argo is lovely - but particularly that monster hit he had with 'But not for me' done live, with the 8 minute groove of 'Poinciana' which put the album on the charts for over two years! Ray Bryant - but his material with Buddy Tate and Sweets on board is better than the early trios - later, in the late sixties and seventies, eighties, the trio work was best Sonny Clark - yes indeed! Near miss - Bobby Timmons would be in there if he'd made any trio records before Jan 60 MG

Those Pacific rim countries are generally pretty good at Rugby. They've all got short, broad players in their packs. America's being in there is amazing, because Americans don't take un-American sports seriously as there's no billions in them. Just as well; if there were they'd rule EVERY sport. MG

(To be said in a Lancashire accent like Ken Platt's) Alf Hall Henry Hall Vic Silvester

'Swat I thought. So I can get the cheapest MG

Shaw, of course, covered the issue in Pygmalion. And it's true, if you've got a good ear for accents, you can identify fairly closely where people come from. Lloyd Wilson, an organist who lives in Chicago, comes from Brighton and fingered me as being from there, even though I'd left twenty years before (as an adult). But he'd left when he was a teenager and spoke with a Chicago accent, so I didn't get him, and was amazed until he told me he'd been to the same school as a couple of my mates. Mobility is breaking down that accent stuff, but not the language thing. But it is possible to develop more or less instinctive 'correct' language for particular circumstances. As an influential Civil Servant, I spoke (had to speak, or I wouldn't have been influential) a different language to what I speak now. But I can't now remember how I spoke before I started moving up the slippery pole, so I don't know what my 'normal' or 'real' language is any more. (At least I never learned any Welsh, apart from how to pronounce it.) MG

Walter Pidgeon Eddie the Eagle Albert Ross

Yeah, but, how's it going to sound on an ipod or my laptop's titchy speakers? MG

Exactly. I thought "cultured" people were individuals who had spent some time cultivating their minds. Looking at this list, you'd think that being cultured has more to do with the places you shop and the products you buy. "Culture" as a marketing exercise, a lifestyle choice. Hmm. I guess that's where we're at. Ugh. Well, that might be the score in Georgia, but not in England. 950 years after the conquest, we're still two nations, one of which speaks using LOTS of words of French derivation, the other speaks using words of Anglo-Saxon derivation; ie, we're still Normans and Saxons, at bottom. And you KNOW which lot is the 'cultured' lot. Not the effin' Saxons. Bev, there's some educational research from the seventies that underlines this - looking into kids 'articulation'. The Saxons were thought by their teachers to be inarticulate, the Normans articulate. But the researchers, analysing the recordings of the kids, found there was no difference in the kids' ability to communicate whatever they were supposed to communicate; they just used different words. Our fault for having suck a perrverse history and more perverse language. MG Well, at least I don't despise shopping But the writers of the Daily Mail list several times put in points for which you HAVE to watch TV. They can't have it both ways and, in fairness, didn't try to. MG

I like Jim's responses. Mine are very much less helpful. 1. Go to the theatre I did up to the age of 25; what does that mean? 2. Can recognise paintings/art I can tell a painting from a photo when I look at it. I can identify some artists others can't, but not lots others can. So what? 3. Visit local heritage sites If you stay in the same area, how many times in one lifetime are you supposed to visit the same damn places to get a tick here? 4. Listen to classical music Not most of it, only French chamber music, and not much of that. Does it count? 5. Go to the ballet Never 6. Know what wine goes with what Don't like wine much, don't care about what goes with what. 7. Don’t skip the news when it’s on TV When I was in the politics business, I never skipped it. Now I'm free, I never watch ANY TV. 8. Watch documentaries See 7 9. Can read music Nope 10. Take an avid interest in politics See 7 11. Read daily newspapers See 7 12. Take countryside walks It's countryside at the end of our road. Taking the dog for a piss is out into the country. 13. Read a book before bed What about if you only read at mealtimes? 14. Choose city breaks over beach holidays I don't really think I understand what other people mean by a city break. Does a few days in Paris buried in African cassette shops or jazz vinyl count as a city break? My wife said, last time, how can you go to Paris and not go to a museum? Certainly not the beach. 15. Watch Question Time See 7 16. Host dinner parties Nope 17. Know about cheese I know enough to dislike a lot and like some. So what? 18. Enjoy crosswords or Sudoku Can't be bothered. 19. Go to vintage markets Cardiff Market, where Kelly's second hand records may be bought, was built in 1891. Does that make it vintage? 20. Know about cuts of meat My Missus does all that stuff. 21. Watch tennis or cricket See 7. Not live, either. 22. Read a book before the film comes out Who cares about films coming out or not? Not I. I can't be arsed to go to the cinema. 23. Watch Antiques Road Show See 7 24. Own a library card Yes, but the library's closed through local inanition. 25. Watch films with subtitles See 7 26. Visit farm shops See 20 27. Use chopsticks over a knife and fork Nope. 28. Drink 'proper' coffee - not instant Only drink coffee in France or America, because the tea's crap in those places. 29. Know how to pronounce 'quinoa' I certainly know how to avoid eating it. 30. Grow your own fruit and vegetables on an allotment Gercha! 31. Go to music festivals Hm... not since Brecon in 2000. Won't afford it now. 32. Collect music on vinyl Oh, all right, I'll give you that one, but as little as possible, because they're hard to listen to on my ipod. 33. Read Wikipedia articles I look stuff up on Wiki if I want to. So yes, but what the hell is this supposed to indicate? That I can spell? 34. Only eat local produce Nope 35. Get the conundrum on Countdown Bollocks! 36. Wear bow-ties or brooches Nope 37. Get food from supermarket 'finer' ranges See 20 38. Drink herbal tea Nope 39. Put on an accent to pronounce foreign words Dunno, maybe. But I KNOW I don't put on an American accent when I pronounce American words. 40. Avoid generic superstore furniture I bleedin' HATE Ikea, but you can't get along without it. So basically I get one whole point (for 32) and three halves (28, 31 & 33). Assuming I've understood what the questions REALLY meant, if anything. And Bev's first post had the right bit at the beginning. Who the hell wants to be like this? MG

I think I wouldn't mind a nice CD version of this that I can rip for my ipod. I've only got the MCA UK version on LP, as I flogged my HMV mono copy to get a stereo one. I used to DREAM the music back in '65! Now I hardly ever listen. I don't think I want this, though. What's nice, but only the original album? MG

I think Steve's right about the backings being anachronistic, but I always viewed them as an attempt to show that the old guys could handle new types of backing and still make what was in its own right effective music. So I don't mind this stuff. And after all, Otis himself was one of the old guys and... 'Signifyin monkey' anyone? MG

Melvin Sparks Harold Melvin Flash Harry