Rooster_Ties

The actual quote pertaining to Legend *does* (practically) mention various themes of Miles Davis. Well, maybe not exeactly the same meaning (does "themes" = "homage to"? ), but pretty darn close, depending on how deep into semantics you want to get. FWIW, the exact quote from the review reads... "The least successful band effort was not [Gary] McFarland's [festival band]; it was Wayne Shorter's homage to Miles Davis, Legend, a moody, colorless composition built on descending figures with a bass lead, in a minor mode. A middle section in 3/4, powered by [Grady] Tate [on drums], showed some excitement, but in the main, the work sounded like an introduction."

Time to fess up -- who else saw the thread title, and thought about something along the lines of David "Fatberg" Newman?

I'm sure I can e-mail you .pdf scans of the whole thing (maybe this week yet), whether or not I can upload them here.

According to the Downbeat review (13-JUL-67), the line-up of the "festival band" was as follows below -- but please note, the ONLY player who is mentioned by name as having played on the Legend -- was Grady Tate. In fact, Wayne(!) isn't even mentioned as having played on the piece (the ENTIRE quote pertaining to Legend is reproduced above and, again, Tate is the ONLY musician mentioned by name, as a player (Wayne is only mentioned as the composer). That said, the 'festival band' (which played in its own right, and the personnel was listed in regards to the festival band's separate(?) performance -- which was mostly (all?) McFarland tunes, all of which were named) was listed as being... Gary McFarland (leader - and presumably vibes, though vibes weren't mentioned) Clark Terry, Bobby Bryant, Buddy Childers, Freddie Hill - trumpets Bob Brookmeyer, Lou Blackburn - trombones Jim McGee, Art Briegleb - French Horns Howard Johnson - tuba Bob Cooper, Bill Green, Zoot Sims, Jack Nimitz, Jay Migliore - "reeds" Gabor Szabo, Jim Stewart - guitars Ray Brown - bass Grady Tate - drums Hal Gordon - percussion. That said, I have a pretty strong hunch that the group that played Legend came out of a subset of this 'festival band' (and may have included many, if not most of these players). The reviewer named was Harvey Siders. I'll try and scan and upload the whole thing when I can.

The entire line-up of the festival band is listed elsewhere in the review (which included Tate), so I have a strong hunch that others in the 'festival' group played Legend too. I'll supply the full list tonight, and the reviewer is named as well. (I actually typed up a MUCH longer accounting of the Downbeat article -- only to have it not post to the board, and it was unforunately lost in the bit-bucket). Miles is mentioned elsewhere in the review of the same (multi-day?) event -- in a review of the full (second) quintet -- which strongly implies that Miles DID NOT play on Legend. The ONLY info directly pertaining to the Shorter/Legend thing is what I typed up above (in bold). I'll try to get some more typed up this evening.

Just found the mention of Legend in Downbeat, in the July 13, 1967 issue -- and the piece is specifically mentioned by name. Here's the full quote... "The least successful band effort was not [Gary] McFarland's [festival band]; it was Wayne Shorter's homage to Miles Davis, Legend, a moody, colorless composition built on descending figures with a bass lead, in a minor mode. A middle section in 3/4, powered by [Grady] Tate [on drums], showed some excitement, but in the main, the work sounded like an introduction." I also just 'discovered' that my uncle's Downbeat collection (which I have here with me now in DC), goes all the way back to April of 1965 (not '67 as I'd previously thought) -- a good 20+ years, seemingly complete. I'll try and post a scan of the complete review of the Los Angeles Jazz Festival (Pauley Pavilion, UCLA) -- which is fairly long, and filled with quite bit of performance details (which isn't to say that it's 100% confirmed that the review wasn't "pre-written" -- but it sure looks like a legit review to me).

Had a hunch that one of the two members of Sam's rhythm section might have been the catalyst for the big band -- since they were part of his regular trio too.

Never really dug the two-disc New York all-star Big Band recordings as much as I wanted too (the ones Steve Coleman had the biggest hand in, iirc) -- but damn,if Aurora didn't knock me on my ass from the git-go, and the Mosaic too. That Florida bag band was and (I presume) could still be amazing!! I know there isn't a penny to be had in it -- and probably money to lose (frankly) -- but on musical grounds, I'd love for Sam's legacy to continue with a group that (presumably) could represent him so well, in an on-going - or at least periodic basis. And the thing is, I think that band really had something unique to say (which is to say that Sam really molded that band -- of 30+ people -- into something unique -- which must speak volumes about Sam's influence). Maybe it was the rhythm-section that was the most unique factor (well, in that particular kind of context) -- but whatever it was, it was special, and nothing like I've ever heard before or since. Anybody know if there was a defacto "music director" in the group? Given Sam's age, somebody had to have been calling the rehearsals -- or at least handling the musical logistics. I know Sam's daughter was (essentially) his manager, and may have been doing somet of that -- but I'd have to think there was somebody actually in the band who kind of ran stuff, or at least was a really big influence. I know Andrew Hill had the benefit of one or two musicians (Ron Horton (tp), being one) who really helped get his stuff going in his later years, i.e. did charts for Andrew (that actually made sense), etc. Did Sam have anybody like that? For a guy in his 80's, one would have to assume he wasn't doing it all - especially with the volume of new music I understand the group did over the years (or so I've heard) -- not that Sam wasn't writing everything, but even Duke had Billy. None of that (about Sam's last years in Florida) will probably ever get documented (nor Andrew's last decade) -- but my hat's off to whomever helped get Sam's Florida big band going, and helped keep it going for quite a number of years. Talk about a labor of love!

Yes, they are wonderful, though I give the slight edge to the second one, "Trio '81". I got the last copy of that from Dusty Groove, years ago. The two of them, plus Ron Carter's "Third Plane" is the complete output of that group as a trio, correct? Not aware of any others (trio-dates only) under Herbie's or Ron's name, nor any under Tony's (correct?)

While I've definitely enjoyed a number of their releases apart, both before and since -- ain't nothin' better (by either one solo) than Greg Osby and Jason Moran together -- and I dearly hope they work together again someday (and hope to have the chance to suggest that to them, presumably individually, any/every chance I get -- until the day it happens -- and hopefully gets recorded). Your thoughts on other jazz artists who you enjoy a lot better together, than apart?

Even OOP, it's defininitely worth tracking down - even at twice the original Mosaic price (probably the going rate). The bonus material is every bit as good, and substantial inclusion. The live "Music Inc" quartet album "Impact" on enja (and especially it's recent CD reissue with two long bonus tracks, for a total of 25 minutes of extra material) is also just as important -- especially since it includes a version of "Brilliant Circles" - a tune otherwise only available on the Stanley Cowell album of the same name (with Woody Shaw). Never dreamed I'd get to hear a version of that tune with Charles Tolliver. (Not to be confused with the Strata East big band album "Impact" -- the one on enja is completely different.) When you include the quartet's "Grand Max" from around that same time -- it's really amazing that there's over 5 hours (5!) of liver material by the various incarnations of the Music Inc quartet -- all from the early 70's -- floating around.

Anybody know if Sam's big band ever played (or continues?) without him? - presumably in the Orlando area. The group had a huge (30+), revolving-door of musicians from all over the greater Orlando area (and beyond) -- and audience demand (or lack thereof) not withstanding -- I could easily see the group continuing without him, as a sort of 'ghost band' without Sam. I only know them from the recent 3-disc Sam Rivers Mosaic Select, and the equally brilliant (earlier) release Aurora. And while I doubt there's anything much more than gas money to be had from doing it -- creatively speaking, this seems like a band ripe to continue the Sam Rivers legacy -- and provide an excellent outlet for some wonderful, creative musicians with some real chops and energy to offer. ========== Shame there aren't subtopics available on this new board/forum software -- or I'd try label this one as such, and get some parallel discussion going about ideas for OTHER modern day ghost bands that would actually make some reasonable sense, creatively speaking. While I'm sure there aren't lots that fit the bill (scarcely a dozen, at best -- heck even 2 or 3 seem like a lot) -- but I'd be currious if anyone here knew of any such modern day Ghost Band concepts that made as much sense (at least to me) as my idea for the RivBea Orchestra continuing without Sam. (Even one or two good examples would further the discussion.) I understand that Sam's big band was a serious creative outlet for a number of great musicians who otherwise had little chance to play that kind of challenging material anywhere else within 500 (or even 1,000 miles) -- and certainly not in anything like that kind of format (what I've always liked to describe as big band music written by Arnold Schoenberg, fronted by James Brown's rhythm section). A labor of love, to be sure -- but isn't anything akin to "regional, avant garde big band" going to be like that? (I'm reminded of the People's Liberation Big Band of Kansas City, for instance (those of you from KC know!) - where I'm guessing every player is lucky to get $10 for their troubles, and their real "pay" is the opportunity to play that kind of music for one night every month).

This is exactly the kind of box set I'd love to borrow from someone for about a year -- spin everything two of three times -- and then figure out which 15 (of the 35 dates) I really need. So If money were no object (and shelf-space no concern) -- I'd love to have this -- but realisticaly, I'm sure most of it would sit on the shelf, unlistened to for years on end. In fact, the 15 dates I really NEED from this set might even get listened to a little LESS for being 'lost' in amongst the total of 35 -- especially if the packaging makes it even the slightest bit of a pain to find particular albums on a whim. I'm really better off only owning the 15 dates I really need. That said, I can vouch for the two Japanese only trio dates with Ron and Tony -- both of which are wonderful (and I'm happy I sprung for the import versions of on CD).

Beatrice (Sam Rivers), Black Narcissus (Joe Henderson), and Little Wing (Hendrix) all immediately come to mind as examples of really great melodic beauty, with equally beautiful changes. My first post (ever) from my iPhone - just upgraded from a 10 year old flip-phone.

What's the date on that Downbeat? I've got my uncle's DB collection now, and here in DC with me -- pretty much complete from early (April?) 1967, through the mid-80's (maybe '87, I forget).

I'm sure there's be folks with info and opinions on this over at the Steve Hoffman board, FWIW.

Mmmm... "scalded stomach"!!

Did he ever record again after the Larry Young dates?

How I wish he'd recorded more - there's just the four Larry Young BN dates - or that's all I'm aware of. RIP -- I'll be spinning the Larry Young Mosaic this week ("Mother Ship" probably being one of my top 10 BN dates).

I've bungee jumped (once, over 20 years ago), and I can confirm this. Though I'm not longing to bungee jump again, I'd soon jump 10 times, than run the bulls.

Because if there's any source I trust on air safety, it's some jackass who starts chain emails. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2013/0712/Asiana-Flight-214-Was-the-pilot-training-program-to-blame re: tl;dr... I thought it was well worth the read, actually (and appreciated it having been posted here). It seemed to have the ring of truth to my ears (or at least one truth), from what I think seems like one informed perspective. Who knows, maybe it was all BS, but there was enough technical detail, and generally didn't come off as someone who had an axe to grind -- that it sure seems like the real deal to me. "Some jackass who starts chain e-mails" this did not read like.

No Jack Bruce thread is complete without one of my favorites of his vocal contributions... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh5BNZHz24s

I've got one of these, but had no idea it was worth much (though certainly an interesting date, definitely)... http://www.ebay.com/itm/DYANI-TEMIZ-FEZA-Music-For-Xaba-LP-on-UK-Sonet-Free-Jazz-/221244104420?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item33832d1ee4

Or the 2nd Quintet with Joe Henderson added (in '67, iirc). Or the Miles and Gil Evans Orchestra concert from '68, with Wayne (iirc).