Rooster_Ties

Yes to about 75% of the questions. No off-site storage for us, and we're not likely to ever get that far out of hand.

Hadn't thought of this before, but it does make some sense. BUT... I've always assumed that as the jazz-related music scene(s) diversified in the 70's, that so too did the interests of jazz audiences. And in the process, a fair number of the people who were either previously interested (or who would have been interested) in purely acoustic jazz, moved off into listening as much or more to fusion, jazz-rock, jazz-funk, and other related musics. In other words, fewer listeners of more traditional, acoustic jazz. And more listeners to fusion and the like (some of whom were former acoustic jazz listeners, and some who were previously unfamiliar with jazz). The only evidence I have for this is the fact that SO many jazz clubs dried up in the late 60's and on through the 70's. Don't know if this is related or not, but it would seem that having far fewer performing venues would be an indication of a lack of record sales – the two would seem to go hand-in-hand. Then again, there may have been a whole host of other economic factors at play here, driving clubs out of business. And then again perhaps some cultural factors were at play too (maybe??) -- warning, LOTS of speculation ahead.... For instance, many of the clubs that dried up were in the "Little Harlem" type neighborhoods, like here in Kansas City around 12th and Vine, and 18th and Vine – and in similar neighborhoods in Chicago and other big cities. These were, as I understand it, almost like self-contained Meccas for the Black community, including a what was originally a thriving nightclub scene during the 30’s, 40's, 50's, and (though to a lesser degree), on into the 60's (and to a much lesser degree, as the 60's went on). But then, by the mid-to-late 60's, some Blacks became somewhat more 'affluent' (a word I'm using with some degree of caution). I mean to say, at least Blacks began to break into the middle-class, economically speaking. (Whether they were accepted into the larger “middle-class” is another story, I realize.) Plus, then in the 60's, the restrictive racial-zoning patterns began to break down (at least somewhat), and we began to see a little greater degree of integration (some places more than others, I'm sure). And wasn't it in the 50's and/or the 60's that racially restrictive covenants began to topple in the courts?? (Restrictive covenants tied to property, handed down from owner to owner, much like an easement is legally binding on future owners of a property. I realize that there may be some holes in my logic (I'm just shooting from the hip here, so feel free to correct me where my assertions are wrong). But at the same time, I think there is at least some evidence for there having been a real decline in jazz record sales (as opposed to just a perceived decline), probably starting in the late 60’s, and on into the 70’s.

Far from it. Frankly I'm way more into some electric jazz in the 70's, than I am accoustic. Electric Miles is high on my list of favorites, as are a number of other related things -- Eddie Henderson's first two albums, much of Herbie's early 70's output, etc... Electric Ornette scores good marks in my book, and even things like Charlie Rouse's "Two Is One", with electric bass and guitar, are favorites of mine. I was only initially trying to limit the discussion of this thread to acoustic jazz, only because it appeared to suffer the most from the lag in jazz sales in the 70's. Or, more accurately (maybe?), I'm guessing it was perhaps the sale of various fusion/jazz-funk type projects, that reduced the sales of acoustic jazz --- and perhaps sales in general, of all jazz-related musics, was more constant that is widely realized (again, just guesswork on my part). Didn't really know where this topic was going when I started it, but I knew that the folks on this board would do it justice, probably in several directions. Lead on!! EDIT: In other words, we all know Weather Report and Mangione sold well in the 70's. But what, if anything, from the 70's sold well that DIDN'T add any more "electricity" to the mix, than was already present in the 60's. THAT'S what this thread was trying to get at. Thanks!!

http://www.cnn.com

Ok, this only qualifies by a nose, but John Medeski played in the Either/Orchestra for two or three years, starting in 1988. Yeah, that's really late in the 80's, and the Either/Orchestra isn't exactly your typical Big Band. Matt Wilson was in the E/O for a time too, but I don't think that was until 1990 or so. Sidenote: Probably THE very first jazz group I ever saw perform live was the E/O, probably around 1990. No idea who I actually saw in the band that night, but there's a good chance that both Medeski and Wilson were in the group then. I understand Wilson grew up in Knoxville, Illinois -- which was about five minutes away from where I first saw them -- in Galesburg, IL (where I went to college -- Knox College). It's in upstate IL, about halfway between Peoria IL, and the Quad Cities (Davenport IA, et al). Hell of a band, hell of a band. Still is. Lot's of good players have passed through the E/O over the years. Every once in a while I notice a name somewhere that looks familiar, and when I pull up their AMG bio or the sideman dates, there's the E/O in the list.

That's an interesting one I hadn't expected. Wonder if Osby ever did any big-band work in his early years?? Or any of the othe M-Base guys, while we're at it.

Yes, please don't count reissues. I'm only talking about albums actually recorded during the 1970's.

FWIW, FFA, I wasn't trying to personally rag on the 70's --- hell, MANY of my all-time-favorite recordings are from the 70's, and the 1970's is my 2nd all-time-favorite "jazz decade" (the 1960's is my favorite decade). I also think jazz from the 70's is WAY under appreciated, though thankfully not nearly as much on this board (praise the lard). I should have simply said something to the effect that sales of "traditional" jazz went south in the 70's, but what "traditional" jazz from that era did sell?? (if any). Also, while I'm at it, I'm only asking about sales. Not "what was important or high-quality that also sold well", but rather simply "what sold well"?? (Good or bad.)

It's widely regarded by jazz conservatives, that "real" jazz's darkest hours were in the 70's, before sales picked as a result of the Wynton phenomena. But more to the point of this thread -- when sales of "real jazz" albums (all-acoustic jazz, with no vocals) were at their very worst -- all through the 70's -- what were the best-selling supposedly "real jazz" albums of that era. Minimal and meager though their sales might have been, were there any big or even moderate standouts, in terms of sales alone?? Why?? No reason. Just curious. Not having discovered jazz until about 1989 or 1990, I have no perspective on this era except in looking back from at least 10 or more like 20 years after the fact. And what I know of that era is colored by what we think is important now, which is also related to what's been released on CD from that era (and what hasn't). What were people interested in "real jazz" really buying back then?? (Take my "real jazz" nomenclature with a HUGE grain of salt. That phrase only supposed to be a sort of shorthand in this thread only for "all-acoustic" non-vocal jazz that swings or grooves or burns. In other words, "hardbop-approved" jazz.) Discuss... EDIT: This discussion ISN'T about reissues. I'm ONLY talking about albums recorded and released for the first time during the 1970's.

In another thread just now , Free For All mentioned Bob Belden being in The Thundering Herd in the late 70's (AMG says he was with The Herd for 18 months). And that reminded me that Tim Hagans was with Stan Kenton (1974-1977), and Woody Herman (1977) -- dates I snagged from the AMG (so if they're wrong, blame them). So I'm wondering what other now important and/or now relatively famous players paid some of their early dues in various big bands in the 70's and 80's. Who's a big cheese now (or even just medium cheeses), who was toiling away in the last chair of their a section for a few years, and lucky to get one or two solos per night -- when they were fresh out of college, back in the day. Discuss...

Paul, just curious, did you and Belden overlap much (if any) with your respectve time(s) in The Herd??

BS&T has been doing gigs with local symphonies for some time -- or at least they've been here with the Kansas City Symphony, on their pops concert series, at least twice within the last 10 years. I've never been to one of their shows, so I don't know how much of a full band there is with these symphonic gigs. Nor do I know if these symphony gigs have been their primary thing in recent years, or if they were simply a series of one-offs, two of which happened to be here in KC. Always seemed kinda weird to me, that they'd be much of a draw to those interested in pops symphony concerts (or that any of it would even lend itself to symphonic treatment), but then again - I much confess to barely knowning any of BS&T's music. But from what I recall, those BS&T and KC Symphony concerts were for near sell-out crowds both times they were here. (Hell, that's probably why they came back so soon.) The Moody Blues, or Yes -- plus a symphony, makes sense to me. BS&T with orchestra, makes less sense, at least on the face of it. "Spinning Wheel" and "What Goes Up" might be the only two tunes of theirs that I can bring to mind. Heck, maybe those two are really one in the same song, now that I think of it. Call it a generational thing -- I'm 35, and there are some huge gaping holes in my knowledge of "pop" music from the early 70's, especially of the variety that now gets played on "goldie oldie" AM stations.

Perhaps if we all e-mailed him, and not all of us bitching -- but simply asking if the recording was available for a more reasonable price. $35 is pretty painful for just one CD. Hell, that's painful for a double CD even.

This isn't Free For All on 'bone in these pics, by any chance, is it??? Can't really tell, and I can't remember when Paul started with The Herd (but I thought it was around the late 70's, but maybe not until the early 80's). Link: Woody Herman and The Herd in 1979 Love these pics of Woody Shaw too.

I gave a CDR "pro-looking" boot of this a spin at Euclid Records about six months ago. Didn't end up buying it ($20 for a CDR was a bit more than I could justify), but as I recall -- hearing it over the speakers of the store -- there were several breakdowns (two or three or four per tune, many of them pretty short), and a fair bit of studio chatter than I'd never heard before (and that weren't on the Columbia box). There's a little bit of this stuff on the Columbia box, but not as much as is available. Hey, come to think of it, all this is on the Miles Ahead site... Links: March 2, 1959 (41 items; TT = 40:29) and April 22, 1959 (17 items; TT = 36:42) All the studio chatter has been transcribed at the above links, with every track identified - including the length of each breakdown. If the boot you're talking about is in the neighborhood of 77 minutes long, then that would be the most complete issue of the two KOB sessions available.

GOD PRETTY SOON WARNES KID IS GONNA THINK THAT EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD IS ALL THE SAME PERSON OR ELSE THERES LIKE A HUNDRED DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT ARE ALL THE SAME OR SIMILAR WITH THE SAME CAPSLOCK PROBLEM AND A PROBLEM WITH RUNON SENTENCES TOO HOW FUNNY WOULD THAT BE

That, and Wynton's implied notions about what music is "less than good" (in his not-so-humble opinion), or essentially being bad, or at the very least severely substandard. In fact, by extension, one almost wonders if he thinks listening to bad music results in bad people. No, not literally (though I think he would say this literally, in terms of Rap), but the idea that not listening to good music (i.e. jazz that swings), will result in one not becoming as good as one might otherwise become. I've probably beat this horse enough...

Clifford Jordan's two volumes of "Glass Bead Games" were both pretty short. When they first came out on CD in the late 80's, I couldn't believe they released them separately as two CD's, one about 29 minutes, and the other like 33 or 34. Cripes!!! Then the Charly release of this title came out, and thankfully they combined both volumes on one disc.

Anybody catch the new Battlestar Galactica mini-series/movie last year?? It was shown on NBC this past weekend, and for those who missed it - I think it's on the Sci-Fi channel again tonight (Tuesday, 1/11). New episodes of the series start this Friday (1/14), at least here in the U.S. (on the Sci-Fi channel). I saw the mini-series about a year ago, and thought it was generally pretty good. There were some interesting changes, like the Starbuck character is female this time, a real “Tom boy”. And the Cylons have some models that look completely human -- enough to blend in as spies. This is definitely an edgier vision than the original, and I mostly like what they've done. It’s shot “documentary” style, in a way – and the space battle scenes have been great. Don’t know if they’re doing everything in CGI (more likely), or models (less likely), but it looks awfully damn good – and it doesn’t look like all the (IMHO) crappy “hyper-pretty” CGI sci-fi that you usually see these days. Ships really look like they’re in weightlessness, and the battle-scenes have a “documentary” look to them too. But there were some bewildering changes too, like having a blond supermodel play one of the Cylon "human" units – along with several other generally oversexed characters. But then again, looking back at the original series (which Sci-Fi has been re-running a bunch this month), there was a bit more skin and implied sex in the original than I had remembered. Nothing's perfect, but overall - this series has the potential to maybe be as good as the best of, say, what Star Trek The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine sometimes achieved. Worth a look, for those so inclined. (Poking around on-line, it appears that overseas (or at least in the UK), the new series has already been running since October, 2004.)

Love it when his caps lock is on. Sorry... LOVE IT WHEN HIS CAPS LOCK IS ON!!!!

Ain't that the truth...

FWI, I'm pretty sure the 6 minutes is from a different concert. Look farther up in this thread for details, if I remember right.

I DONT KNOW BUT DID YOU KNOW THAT YOUCAN HOLD ON TO THOSE OLD CALENERS YOU ALREDY HAVE BECUS THEYLL BE GOOD AGAIN IN SEVIN YEARS AGAIN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU ALL THINK IM CRAZY BUT I KNOW I READ THIS SOMEWHERE BEFORE. IVE GOT THIS ONE BLUE NOTE CALENDER FROM 1999 THAT I CANT WAIT TO USE NEXT YER, OR MAYBE IT WAS LAST YEAR I FORGET. EXCEPT LIKE WHEN ITS LEEPYEAR OR MAYBE WHEN IT ISNT. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT i'M TALKING ABOUT CUZ IF YOU DONT YOUR REALLY SCREWED CUZ YOU THROUGH AWAY SOME REALLY COOL CALLANDERS THAT YOU'll BE WISHING YOU HAD WHEN THE RIGHT YEARS COME UP. HEY DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE 2002 BLUENOTE ONE CUZ MY MOM THROUGH THAT ONE AWAY WHEN i TOLD HER DONT BUT SHE DID ANYWAY. ILL SEND YOU SOME CDRS FOR IT I SWEAR.

Congrats!!!!!