Rooster_Ties

OK, I thought about the "one disc" vs. "two discs" idea some more, and also about the earlier 1963-66 material (meaning everything that was on the Mosaic) vs. the later 67-70 material (meaning "Grass Roots", "Dance With Death", "Passing Ships", "Lift Every Voice", and the 2nd LP of "One For One"). Part of me wants to mix it all up, with the earlier, more challenging material side-by-side with the later, more accessable material. OR, I suppose we could do two Hill compilations --- one of the 1963-66 material, and a 2nd volume of only the 1967-70 material. (And as much as I might like to argue otherwise, that would probably make more sense.) I guess more importantly --- just keep suggesting tunes, and maybe we'll let the number of tunes that are suggested (and the total time needed for them) help suggest if there should be two volumes, or just one.

The stereo mix-down tape of the Hill session (Passing Ships) did sound like crap, but the original (milti-track?) masters turned out to be OK. The error was in assuming that the stereo mix-down tape was totally representive of the session, which it wasn't. Given the hundereds and hundereds of of tapes in the vaults (including masters and mix-downs of masters), I'm not surprised that something like this Hill date slipped thought the cracks. Shit happens. Thankfully something like this hasn't happened very often. But it does happen, now and then. And Mother Ship isn't just coming out now for the very first time -- it's been out for at least 20 years now (or is it closer to 25??). At the time when Mother Ship first came out on LP, there were still dozens and dozens of sessions that hadn't yet been released. It was just one of those sessions. I think Blue Note's done a pretty good job, all in all, in getting previously unreleased material finally released. (Now if we can only get that unreleased Tyrone Washington session with Herbie and Jack Dejohnette released someday!!!!)

Oh, and let's keep it to one disc (heck, we've got 79 minutes to fill). I'm afraid that if we go to two discs, we'll have to include quite a bit of material that would be even less accessable for people to get their ears around. The point of this comp is to hone in on the best tunes that Hill wrote, looking at them slightly from a more 'conventional' jazz standpoint. In other words, let's keep it to the tunes that people might have half a chance of learning to hum the head to in relatively short order. ( Not that I don't like the more 'out' Hill, cuz I do. Lordy, lordy, do I ever love that kind of Hill. But I want to focus on the tunes that in a more perfect world, might have had 1/4 of a chance of getting in The Real Book. )

I don't know about including "The Rumproller". I'll have to give it another listen. If Hill were on the date, I'd probably say yes, it's open for consideration. But he's not. And to my ears (although I haven't heard it in 6 months), there's little to the tune that has much of Hill's imprint on it. But I'll listen again, and see what I think...

I always thought this series was pretty good, as one or two CD introduction(s) to each artist. They were how I first heard many of the tunes represented on these discs. And there are some others (like the recent one of Bobby Hutcherson's material) which have different looking covers, but the idea is the same. So, let's propose a track-listing for a 65-70 minute long compilation of Andrew Hill's best and most 'accessable' tunes on Blue Note. (Well, 'accessable' for Andrew Hill anyway.) Here are the rules... Not more than 2 tunes (or 3 tops) from any one date/session/album, and the tunes should be the ones that people have a decent chance of being able to hum the head to - after a couple dozen listens. Not every session needs to be represented, but the compilation should provide a good overview and introduction to Hill's work on BN. I know, I know... ...the idea of an Andrew Hill compilation is very counter-intuitive, probably on at least a couple different levels. 1) Most of Hill's BN albums are more like concept-albums than most other Blue Note artists (i.e. more similar to "All Seeing Eye" than a random Horace Silver album); and 2) much of Hill's output just doesn't lend itself to being all mixed around, with different cuts from different albums. Still, I think this could be fun - because it will force us to identify which of Hill's tunes are the strongest (in the compositional sense) in terms of the tunes themselves, and not as much based on the individual performance of Hill's tunes (based pimarily on the quality of the solos). To the best of my knowledge, no Andrew Hill tunes are typically considered being anything close to being "standards", not even in the sense that most of the tunes on "The Best of Joe Henderson: The Blue Note Years" are arguably many of Joe's strongest compositions, many bordering on 'standard' status (at least in 'modern' terms). I really think we can do justice to a Hill compilation, and in the process, argue for a fair number of Hill tunes as being worthy of being played by others. What tunes would you include??? (And please identify which album they come from - to save us all from having to look them up ourselves) Once we have a good list of tunes, then we can pick a final track listing, and sequence the thing. Then AfricaBrass or Couw (or anybody, really) can whip-up a Hill CD cover (similar to the series above), and those of us that want a Hill comp of our own can burn one. ( I'd like to do this, because I have a hunch that mixing up the Hill catalog, and playing the best of it, back to back - out of context - might reveal some interesting things about Hill's concepts and about his playing, that we/I might not otherwise notice. Seriously. Well, and also it'd be good to have for the car. ) Again, no Hill BN session is off limits (so even the two from the 80's are fair game, I suppose), but then again, not every date needs to be represented either. (For instance, Wayne Shorter's last three BN albums are not represented on his "Best of..." CD, nor is "All Seeing Eye".) For instance, I for one will be hard-pressed to suggest anything from the Hill date with Sam Rivers (it's on the last CD on the Mosaic). But who knows, perhaps I'm forgetting a tune from it that just might fit (though I doubt it.) I guess the easiest question in all this is this: What are your favorite Andrew Hill tunes???

If there had been something that I'd overlooked, I was gonna guess a Jimmy Smith date from the late 50's. (Sorta like how I sometimes forget that Tina Brooks is on one or two Jimmy Smith dates.)

I think what makes these Hill sessions from 67-70 so much fun, and so interesting (especially "Passing Ships"), is that they groove, and yet they still have that "Andrew Hill"-ness to them ----> all at the same time. And, these 67-70 Hill dates seem to result in some of the most interesting and unique playing of Lee Morgan's, Woody Shaw's, Charles Tolliver's, and (now) Dizzy Reece's entire careers. Makes me wonder if any more of those unreleased Hill dates from this time period are possibly worth releasing. Could it be that "Passing Ships" isn't the last new Hill material from this era?? One can only hope!!

If he did, I should probably know about it - but I don't. But I don't feel too bad -- Free For All and I were discussing this the other day, and he didn't know the answer either. I'm guessing he didn't, or else I might have heard about it by now. ( Then again, I could be completely forgetting some super-obvious date that I should be remembering, but clearly have forgotten. )

The linernotes to "Passing Ships" mention this about Joe Farrell: But I can't seem to find what Farrell album(s) these might have been recorded on (at least I'm not finding them on the AMG). Anybody here know???

That's what I would have thought too, and I may yet figure out who's who on all the solos. But Dizzy's soloing is more progressive than I even knew he had in him. (The only Dizzy I've ever hear is from about 1960 and before.) Kind of a nice challenge, me thinks.

Unless I'm overlooking something, I don't think a single word has been said about the new round of Conns over on the AAJ board. Nothing about "Passing Ships", or any of the others. Back before AAJ went down for a couple weeks, I used to have a poll that I started there asking which of the 6 Conns people were most interested in getting. The thread never went very far, although (much to my surprise) "Passing Ships" was leading in the votes. But then Oct. 7th comes and goes, and not a single word mentioned about the Conns. Man, just goes to show how my heart is more with the Organissimo board. AAJ may be fine for some things, but how can a jazz board not even have any mention or any discussion (none!!!) about what we've started three or four separate threads about here, some of which (by now) are starting to get a bit lengthy.

From the "Passing Ships" linernotes... Same rhythm patterns and essentially the same vamp (at least in the piano), but the melody over it is different. Threw me for a loop too, the first time I heard it on "Passing Ships". I'm thinking -- where the hell have I heard this before?????

I sent e-mail too, but don't see myself on the list either. About to resend again now...

Ah yes, but at least this thread properly refers to "Pops"!!!

Stewart Copeland: Sting, without getting goopy or anything. I think your heart-felt solo stuff you've done with your hirelings - who you can kick around, and who don't give you any shit or grief at all is pretty cool.

"Satchmo"??? Oh, you must be talkin' 'bout Pops!!!

Yeah man. What are you doing anyhow? Running up and down all day, spending time sitting in your car, listening to this stuff and then going back into the house to type your impressions to this board... That's WEIRD man! :rsly: I do have a half-way decent bookshelf system in the bedroom. And another bookshelf system on the first floor (two-floor house), but it isn't hooked up right now as we're in the process of painting/remodeling. Yesterday I just happened to give a first listen on the PC, so I could type my thoughts about the music as I was listening to it. (And I had some errands to run, so I wasn't in the car specifically to listen on a better stereo.) But, all that said - I've always put whatever extra cash I had into more music (recordings), as opposed to springing for an expensive system. All that said, I was just listening to "Passing Ships" again on the better system in the bedroom a few minutes ago - and lovin' every minute of it!!!! Man, what a great disc.

Get "Grass Roots" for sure, which is Hill's attempt at something akin to soul-jazz (though entirely mixed with Hill's advanced concepts, at least on some level). It was a Conn just a few years ago, and should be fairly easy to locate - at least on-line. It was from 1967 (if I remember right), and is stylistically pretty similar to "Passing Ships" in a number of ways. Next would be "Lift Every Voice", which was recorded in 1969 and 1970, around the same time as "Passing Ships". Warning - it has a small vocal choir on it (of about 7-9 voices), but they sing mostly wordless "heads" to tunes, or simple lyrics. The album has LOTS of great soloing from the likes of Lee Morgan, Woody Shaw, and Bennie Maupin. The vocals are wierd (or at least some people think they are), but they'll grow on you over time (or at least they finally grew on me). Try to think of the vocals as being just other instruments. FYI, both "Grass Roots" and "Lift Every Voice" have extra sessions on their Conn release on CD. Each disc is well over an hour long (70+ minutes each), and the extra sessions are absolutely as good as the main session originally released back in the day. That's it as far as Andrew Hill titles that are (or were ever) on CD, as far as things similar to "Passing Ships". There are a couple titles that have only been released on LP ("Dance With Death" and half of the double-LP "One For One") which are also somewhat similar to "Passing Ships", but they are probably somewhat more difficult to locate, though many of us here on the board have then on CDR. (Neither has been released on CD anywhere, not even in Japan.)

Before today, I'm not sure I ever realized that Joe Farrell was white. (I guess I just assumed he was Black all these years.) I'm not sure I've ever seen a picture of him before today, now that I think of it.

Both the Scofield titles are outstanding (IMHO), though quite different. Look 'em up on the AMG, and take a chance. At $5 each, how can you go wrong.

How about a couple companion threads... "What are you thinking about listening to?" "What did you think about listening to, but then listened to something else?"

Just listened to the first three tunes again on my car stereo (which has quite a bit more 'kick' to it than my PC's speakers), and I am really blown away by this disc. There are some moments that are a little rought around the edges, sure. But overall, it's easily as good as anything Hill recorded on BN after 1965, and probably better than "Grass Roots" (at times). Hill does it again!!!

Not sure how to collect all my thoughts about "Passing Ships" after only one time through, except to say that I really liked it quite a bit, and expect it only to grow on me more and more and more, over time. (And in some ways, it reminds me of Duke Pearson arranged date on some serious steroids, with Andrew guesting on keys.) Love the complex vamps behind many of the solos -- complex enough that I couldn't hum along with them instantly, and I know I'll take great pleasure in learning them well enough to "play along" with the recording. In some ways, a few of the tunes remind me of "Grass Roots" on steroids, especially "Plantation Bag". Ron Carter's playing reminds me of "Grass Roots" too. Not entirely in a bad way always, but not entirely in a 'great' way either. He's kinda just there, and kinda 'heavy' at times. Interestingly, I'm having a tiny bit of trouble figuring out who's who on the trumpet solos (on my very first listen, mind you), though I've heard a few that I was pretty certain whether it was Woody or Dizzy. I'm sure I'll figure them out soon enough. Funny thing is that in some ways (on a few tunes, though not every one), this album totally sounds like I would expect a "small big-band" date to sound like from Andrew Hill. I know that's a cheesy thing to say, but it's true. It really does sound like Hill with a biggish-band, especially in 1969. I love it!!! Which is to say (like I do about every Andrew Hill release), that I know I'll find new things in this album every time I hear it, for dozens and dozens of listens to come. I'm still hearing new things in all his other albums, and finding new ways to approach them, even a decade after I first heard them. "Passing Ships" appears to be one that will hold lots of secrets and reveal them slowly over time --- which is what the draw of Andrew Hill is for me. He always keeps me guessing, even when I get familiar with the albums. And it's that "always keeps me guessing" aspect of Hill that I love, as much as the music itself. And that's what I love about Andrew Hill's music so much. By the way, the U.S. Conns are definitely not copy protected - as I burned a copy to listen to in the car, and keep in my glove box semi-permanently. (In fact, what I listened to just now was the copy.)

I'll ask my wife. She's the sports fan in this house. For instance, the last time the Chiefs got a new quarterback, I prided myself on NOT even knowing his name, until like 9 or 10 weeks into tje season. Seriously!!!! And I only found out his name by accident, on the news. (Damn it!! - I was really gonna try to make it through the whole season without knowing. And I almost did!!!)

I just used the same 40% off coupon on the Andrew Hill conn, without any problem. The clerk behind the counter was clueless, and didn't even notice the notice posted by every register not to take the 40% off coupons!!! Got it for $10.79 + tax --- sweet!!!! (Never expected it to work so easily, and thought I would have to speak to a manager and have him say "just this one time", like the last time I used it on the new "Jack Johnson" Miles box, which I got for $41.99 + tax.) Hell, if I knew it was gonna be that easy, I might have taken my chances with buying more than just one Conn on that same coupon.