king ubu

An evolution shirt? You might be taken for a darwinist and get stoned (well yes, that's what it meant *before*, I guess) by some re-born again messiases

The film is with and about Grachan. Being shot by the person who made that documentary about Gary McFarland... So is there any footage of Grachan jamming with McFarland (possibly on Bacharach or Beatles tunes)?

The title of this thread always fools me again and makes me believe it's one about holding off sex until marriage...

(my reply to the hillbillswaps, that is... )

Maybe Enja Weber was the guy who did for the black musicians what Eicher could have done in the 70s and 80s if he wanted, over here in Europe? I don't know...

ok clem, I see what you're saying, but then I assume the music black folks tended to produce was rather not what ECM was ever looking for? There are many others, Lester Bowie's own albums, their first release which was a Mal Waldron album, a couple of never yet on CD things by the likes of Sam Rivers or Julian Priester (or has "Love, Love" finally ended up on CD?), and there was a Dewey Redman album, too? Also a Marion Brown... I guess that's in the end just not the stuff that fits the image ECM wants to have, and maybe it won't sell enough - I don't know if that's true. And in the end I don't really care - I would never nominate ECM as my favourite label or anything close to, but I still think they do worthwhile releases nowadays, just as they did in earlier years. In the end I give props to Eicher for doing his thing, for creating his own niche and being much more successfull than one (he?) could have hoped for. There's not much more I have to say about this... there are plenty of labels releasing plenty of discs, and we can lucky enough make our picks without having to endorse a whole catalogue - it's not just thumbs up or down, luckily!

Hasn't Scofield always been a somewhat boring player? I have several of his discs (the BNs with Lovano, the one with Eddie who?, Groove Elation, Quiet, Shinola, Works for Me, ScoHoLoFo, maybe even more) and I occasionally even listen to some of them, but he never really "touched" me in any way. Sometimes his stuff is fun to listen, but most often it's not interesting enough for me. The Sco-Swallow-Stewart trio live (I've known it from broadcasts, from ca. 2000 to 2006) is another deal quite often, though. But there Scofield goes for a straighter approach and Swallow works perfectly with him, and Bill Stewart is a great drummer, too...

There's plenty to enjoy, both old and new (maybe less new, that may be true, I don't know enough of ECMs catalogue to really tell). Anyway, with all the BN fetishism going on, there's plenty of boring BN stuff, too, and many might feel the older the label got, the lesser the quality/freshness of their releases... look at all the mediocre stuff from the late 60s...

Amusing little discussion here... I agree about the sentiment of ECM "getting old" and one being able to generally notice that, but I also am in that camp who thinks there's enough good new stuff coming out on ECM - Rava, Balke, Tord Gustavsen, Trygve Seim. DeJohnette and the AEC made several albums for ECM, I don't think this has to turn into yet another one of those dreadful skin colour-specific threads.

Hm, for some reason I always preferred that one... can't say why - maybe just becasue I got it first? And that short bass solo on "Knock on Wood" is killer stuff!

yup, me too... but what do we know, we're all innocent faggotts, I guess... Interesting Brownie, how although we are from vastly different parts of the world, I too had (have) a serious "thing" for Susan Harrison. When this movie was released in Cape Town in 1957, after a great deal of anticipatory publicity in Metronome and Downbeat regarding the Chico Hamilton Quintet contribution, I saw it three times that first week. I now teach this movie every year as a personal indulgence in my "Social Aspects Of Film" class, and I always confess to the class about my fixation on her. (Most of the males in the class just don't get it ... the females recognize her vulnerability, though). It is a real mystery what happened to her ... she just disappeared from the Hollywood scene after doing some television roles. She probably married an insurance salesman, and moved to the Valley, where she is now a grandmother and the general secretary of the local John Birch Society. This is a very rich film for social and cultural analysis of the period ... from prevailing sexual mores to the blacklist and communism (remember J.J. asks the Marty Milner character if he is a "red'?) ... and we must not forget that director Barry Levinson (who is our age) offers a wonderful homage to the film in his great film DINER ... where one character repeats large sections of dialog from TSSOS. The fiilm captures a lost world of American fifties culture (perhaps peculiar to Boadway/New York), and requires a great deal of background explanation for today's students. Also, it is very interesting that it was made by a Scotsman, Alexander McKendrick ... perhaps it required someone from outside of the culture to capture it so precisely, much like John Schlesinger did later with MIDNIGHT COWBOY. That post makes me want to see the film again soon! It's really a great one!

MG, check out Maceo's "*Soundtrack" (it looks untitled on the cover) - I always preferred that one over the Planet Groove one. They do some old favourites (Knock on Wood, and the usual J.B. stuff - of course Wesley and Pee Wee Ellis are there, Larry Goldings is on organ).

The two Cobblestone dates were reissued on Muse and 32 Jazz. These are definitely worth looking for! (The 32 Jazz release paired them on one disc!)

Elton Dean and rostasi, or what's this thread about again?

Oh, and the West Coast 3CD set (now singly available as VMEs, I think, but I'm not sure if all of it is out in that form) is much better than the reviews I remember reading back when it came out! Lou Levy!

Quite a few of these have been published... I used them to practice earlier... was quite interesting to find out more about his pet licks and all... he's not the most inventive soloist to troll on earth, it's his sound and soul that makes him special, his phrasing and bending etc. - you don't get that on transcriptions, of course!

I'm not leaning that much towards acid jazz today... I used to like it much more, but that's where I got into jazz, starting out with funk, both old-school and new stuff (Crusaders, Larry Graham, Sly Stone, Prince, Maceo etc.). Will play "Swing Low Sweet Cadillac" again to see how I like it nowadays!

Too right, how often have I tried listening to a new album in "the wrong mood" and got too little out of it. Revisiting reveals a much better session than first spin. ... Now that's a different story altogether, reaching out for the right thing at the wrong time or vice-versa! Happens quite often of late, but that's likely because too much new stuff has piled up over the last 2 years or so...

don't know it long enough to really say something but at the moment i really really like that 1968 Reunion Big Band MPS album not to forget the subject of the thread: Dizzy Gillespie - Digital in Montreux I got the Berlin one on your recommendation, it's good, but it's too short... and there are too many fine musicians that don't get heard in solo! I generally like the live material more than the studio stuff with Diz, that applies to his group with James Moody, the Gillespiana stuff with Leo Wright, as well as to the 1957 big band. Again, let me point out that I have all this stuff on CD and like it - it just to me never really lives up to my expectations, it's like it all should have been a notch better...

derailing the thread for a second... I tend to think of Cadena as a Savoy producer, mainly (and a helluva fine composer, ha ha ha)... and your Prestige list misses Don Schlitten who did the books of Booger and other fine things (he too worked for other labels, and I think he took some photos as well).

I'm sure timing is crucial, but I wanted to point out that the moment I got into jazz didn't keep me from enjoying Granz' 50s retro stuff... I still don't get these, really: - Diz & Getz - Getz & J.J. at the Opera House - the one with Dizzy, Getz & Stitt But I quite enjoy the Dizzy/Rollins/Stitt one, which happens to be the last one of those that I got... (a case where preferences did change after I came to know another similarly conceived album) Also I feel like most of the Dizzy albums now in the Mosaic don't live up to my expectations (Something Old, Something New, Electrifying Evening, also the Impulse Swing Low one), which is why I've not yet been trying to find a reasonably prized Euro/Universal edition of that Mosaic... (but I know I'll get it, eventually). I think Dizzy may be a case in point... is there any album of his that really lives up to the expectations, aside from his sides with Bird, and say the Massey Hall and Town Hall discs, and his own early big band dates for Savoy/RCA/etc? I really don't know... I mean I can hear why he's so great and I enjoy his playing, but there's no album I've heard yet that I really think is great. My favourite (as an album) might be, hold tight, the stoopid latin jazz album, "Jambo Caribe" - it's just great stoopid fun from beginning to end!

Just found this list over here: http://www.docdosco.com/edwards.html Pretty impressive!

Sad news! Many fine photos of his are in the booklet of the Dolphy Complete Prestige box, too... I think that's where I first noted he did some photos, too - before I only was aware of him as a producer/session supervisor. The cover of Coltrane's debut album is terrific!

Yes, a short but very fine one!

"Soulville." And I agree, was disappointed when I got it at the time it came out. Just compare it to the way Webster sounds on Harry Edison's "Sweets," from about the same time. Uh oh... I am planning to order Soulville and Meets Oscar Peterson from yourmusic -- should I avoid? Guy Meets OP is the better date and I wouldn't avoid either. I am with Chuck on this I guess, I like them both very much and don't prefer either one - but I guess I just like Ben Webster. Get both of them, both are fine, in fact "Meets OP" is more than fine, one of my favourite Webster albums! Remember, it's just the disappointed expectations this thread is about, not about an album actually being bad (at least I didn't want to say any of the ones I listed were bad, they merely did not meet my personnal expectations). You know, Coleman Hawkins Encounters Ben Webster was the first of these Granz retro thingies I heard, probably among my first 25 or so jazz CDs (and I knew it from the library before). I still love that one very, very much "La Rosita", "Prisoner of Love"... what they do there is likely a lost art by now and I feel it has to be treasured! So "Soulville" not meeting my expectations has nothing to do with when I came to jazz (early to mid 90s, I was born at the very end of the 70s), but rather that - similar to "Side by Side" vs. "Back to Back" - the "place" for such an album as "Soulville" had already been occupied for a long time by "Encounters" (I also prefer that one over "Genius of Coleman Hawkins" and "Webster Meets O.P.", btw), and I didn't feel like having to change my perception in this case...