BERIGAN

Woody Shaw: Trumpet In Bloom By Chuck Berg Downbeat Magazine August, 1978 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is destined to be the year that the boundless energies of Woody Shaw come into focus. In the first place, his playing has never been better. Coupling the bop-oriented idioms of Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan and Freddie Hubbard with the avant garde dialects of Eric Dolphy and John Coltrane, Shaw has added a technical virtuosity and fiery intensity that make his stylistic approach second to none. In addition to being a masterful stylist, Shaw is a leader with strong musical convictions. After a highly successful two-year tenure as co-leader of the Woody Shaw/Louis Hayes Quintet, the trumpeter has organized a group even more responsive to his musical design. Along with the leader, there are saxophonist Carter Jefferson, pianist Onaje Allan Gumbs, bassist Clint Houston and drummer Victor Lewis. It's a dynamic unit already making waves. Moreover, Shaw's career has benefited from the wise counsel of his manager and wife, Maxine Gregg, and has taken a leap forward due to the support of Bruce Lundvall, President of CBS Records. So, with a major label recording contract, a hot new album (RosewoodColumbia JC 35309), top-notch management and a group of kindred musical spirits, Woody Shaw is now sittin' on top of the world. But Shaw's accomplishments have not come by playing to the marketplace. Eschewing the fusion phenomenon, Shaw has steadfastly marched to the beat of his own drummer. As a result, Shaw's talents have been in demand by other uncompromising artists like Eric Dolphy, Horace Silver, Art Blakey, Max Roach, McCoy Tyner, Andrew Hill, Archie Shepp, Pharoah Sanders, Jackie McLean and, most recently, Dexter Gordon. Born in Laurinburg, North Carolina, on Christmas Eve in 1944, Shaw is as open and energetic as his music. Playing it safe is not Woody's way. Our conversation took place in Shaw's East 31st Street apartment with the sounds of John Coltrane and traffic from nearby Lexington Avenue counterpointing our dialogue. What kind of influence did your family have on your musical development? Well, coming from the traditions of the deep South, there was always a lot of music around. I had a cousin who played classical piano, you know, Chopin and Mozart. Every Christmas she would come down and play for the family. I got very jealous. I guess I was about nine or ten years old. So I was determined to show the family what I could do. I picked up a trumpet when I was about 11 and gradually learned to play it. I had a close affinity with the instrument. It just felt natural. So that's more or less how I became involved with the trumpet. Why trumpet instead of saxophone or piano? Actually, I had started playing bugle. I used to be in the Washington Carver Drum and Bugle Corps. This was an all black senior corps which was affiliated with the Masons. When you say "bugle," people think in terms of the military bugle. But a lot of bugles have one rotary valve which produces a series of chromatic notes. When I was playing bugle, though, I had to use the tuning slide for chromatic notes. Anyway, because of the bugle, I was attracted to the trumpet. Who was the first trumpet player that you listened to and identified with? Louis Armstrong. I loved Louis. Also Harry James. I liked the flashy trumpet players. And Dizzy É so, I had a close affinity with the instrument and became the best trumpet player in school. This was in the sixth grade. There was always a wide variety of music around our house. My father, Woody Shaw, Sr., was involved with gospel music. We listened to Tito Puente and all of that Latin stuff because we liked to dance. I remember a record by Lester Young and Howard McGhee on trumpet. Our friends would come over and we'd dance. So you can see it was a good environment for music-religious, dance, everything. What was your dad's gospel music experience like? Well, he belonged to the Diamond Jubilee Singers. They were very popular in the South. They were affiliated with the Fisk Jubilee Singers who came from Fisk University. But the Diamond Jubilee Singers developed a reputation of their own. I was fascinated. I'd sit down with my mouth open and just listen to those guys sing, man. The rhythms and the feelings they generated were terrific. I'd sit there and just go to sleep every night. So that was my first real close contact with live music. When did you move to Newark? When I was about two months old my family had already moved to Newark but my mother went back to North Carolina to have me. When I was a little stronger we went back to Newark. In the meantime my father was holding the fort down. Who were you listening to in junior high? I was still into Louis Armstrong, Harry James, the flashy trumpet players. I remember Ray Anthony. I used to watch him on television. Then my mother took me out one day and bought a $1.25 record at the A&P. I'll never forget it. On it were Benny Goodman, J.C. Higginbotham, Glen Gray and the Casa Loma Orchestra. It came all the way up to 1945 with Dizzy Gillespie playing "Night In Tunisia." This fascinated me. Was Diz the first bop trumpet player you listened to? He was the first "modern" jazz trumpeter. At that time Dizzy was playing things that were impossible. Imagine me at 11 years old hearing Dizzy Gillespie. It sounded impossible to my ears. Nevertheless, Diz made me feel I had to be a jazz trumpet player. Other people? Shorty Rogers, Pete Candoli, everybody, you know. I just loved the trumpet. There was another record that had a variety of jazz artists, like Sarah Vaughan. It also had Clifford Brown and Max Roach playing "Cherokee." I'll never forget it. It just haunted me. Such a beautiful dark tone. Clifford more or less shaped my conception of what I wanted to sound like. I was about 13 when that happened. When I was in junior high I met a teacher who took a profound interest in me. His name was Jerome Ziering. He was a legitimate trumpet player who also played a lot like Harry James. He noticed my talent and took me under his wing. He said, "Woody, you're going to have to learn how to read. There are a lot of good white trumpet players out there who are going to make it competitive." He actually wanted me to become a classical trumpet player. I told him my folks couldn't afford trumpet lessons. He said, "Okay, instead of charging you $10, I'll charge you $5. You must study with me." I was still about 13 and Mr. Ziering was steadily helping me get my sound and technique down. So the whole legit world of trumpet started to open up. A little later I was starting to get into Lee Morgan, Donald Byrd, Kenny Dorham. That was around '58 or '59. Mr. Ziering knew I had this interest in jazz, so in addition to making me study out of legit books, he brought in solos by Dizzy and Bix Beiderbecke and Bunny Berigan. So he helped shape my concept of jazz. He was really an extraordinary man. Just beautiful. As far as the trumpet goes, I have as much respect and love for Mr. Ziering as I have for Clifford Brown and Dizzy Gillespie. He's a very big part of my background. He was such a great trumpet player. He's now a school teacher in New Jersey. So he was your first teacher. My first real idol, you know. He had a great interest in the students and made them learn about the basics of music. He wanted me to sit in the New York Philharmonic because I was a natural with the trumpet. One day he said, "Woody, can you hit this note?" He played a high G. I hit it. I can hardly hit it now, but I hit it then. I must have been about 13. Anyway, he made me try out for the all-city junior high and all-state junior high orchestras. He told me what to practice. Did you make those? Yes I did. I was playing 3rd or 4th trumpet but I was in there. After junior high, I went to the Arts High School in Newark. It's like the High School of Performing Arts in New York. Anyway, that's where people like Wayne Shorter, Sarah Vaughan, Scott La Faro and Connie Francis went. I then started to really grow as a jazz musician. I was also starting to meet people like Hank Mobley and Kenny Dorham. Had you started coming into New York to go to clubs? Not yet. I'd sneak into Birdland occasionally when I was about 15. I'd dress up and look older. I've always looked older than my age. I guess it's from growing up so fast. I had very good marks at school during that period. I was a super student. I even skipped a couple of grades-from 7B to 9A. But then came the thing with girls. Also, I started to hang out a little bit. Actually, growing up too fast. My parents said, "Woody, Mr. Ziering wants you to study, to get good marks and to develop your trumpet technique." But I thought I knew it all. In high school there was a fantastic variety of trumpet players. I'll never forget it. They were all Italian too. These guys would really get tone, man. They were into Mendez. So that shaped and rounded my perception of what the trumpet should sound like. I still believe the main thing about trumpet is that tone. I like to hear a big fat round pretty sound. I don't care what a cat's playing, if he's got a big round pretty sound, he's got me. I'm about 16 now. I'm growing up. I run into musicians like Buddy Terry and Art Williams. Art Williams, who later passed away, took an interest in me. He was a bassist and used to play in different spots around Newark. There was another gentleman by the name of Jimmy Anderson who taught me about chords. When I was about 16 or 17 he said, "Well, you've got to learn piano." So I started working on piano. In the process I discovered I had perfect pitch. At this point I was thoroughly engulfed in music and really into Lee Morgan even more than Clifford Brown. To me, nobody played better than Lee Morgan. I was also into Donald Byrd. Dizzy, of course, had always been my man. I was also starting to discover people like Clark Terry and Maynard Ferguson. I must go back a little bit to about age 14, when I met a man who was responsible for getting people like Wayne Shorter and Walter Davis going. His name is Ladozier Lamar and he directed a big band at the Newark YMCA. We played stock arrangements by Duke Ellington and Count Basie. He was very hard, you know. He really made us play those charts. Later, through some of the guys in the Y band, I met Alan Jackson and started playing with his r&b band. I was also starting to jam everywhere. So all of a sudden, there's this young kid with lots of potential who loves to play, and it's me. I still love to jam, man. When did you start sitting in with established players? There was a club on Warren Street in Newark that had Tuesday night sessions that I'll never forget. The first night I sat in, Kenny Dorham and Hank Mobley were playing with a local rhythm section consisting of Larry Young on piano and a bassist by the name of Geronimo who also ran the sessions. Kenny really dug me 'til the day he died. I guess he could hear what was coming next. Anyway, every Tuesday nights there would be different players like Johnny Griffin, Lou Donaldson, Tommy Turrentine, Stanley Turrentine, Shirley Scott, Jackie McLean, all the cats. Finally, I flunked out of school and the teaching staff couldn't understand it because I had been such a brilliant student. Everybody was worried, so I tried to go back to high school. I'm 18 now. Then I got a call from Rufus Jones -- a chance to go on the road. So I finally quit school and went on the road. Buddy Terry, the saxophonist, was in the band, which was great because Buddy was one of my idols at that time. He was like the Sonny Rollins of Newark. He taught me about chords. Every question I had, Buddy Terry would answer for me, and he had all the hit records by Sonny, Brownie, everybody. This was also the time of the avant garde, don't forget. It was fresh then. And I could always go hear Mingus, Trane, anybody, at the Showplace or the Jazz Gallery. That was when I was in my late teens. There were lots of things happening then. There was a young drummer by the name of Wilson Morgan who used to make me go over to Juilliard. I used to sneak in on brass classes and stand outside the trumpet teacher's door and listen to him give lessons. You know, I couldn't have gone to Juilliard because I didn't graduate from high school, but there I was. It was like a whole new world. All of us were grasping for knowledge at that time. I knew Chick Corea and Hubert Laws since they first came to New York. I remember this bashful guy that used to play piccolo at jam sessions, Hubert Laws. But a lot of cats who wanted to be jazz musicians left the scene and became teachers and whatnot. Tyrone Washington and myself, and another good friend named John Williams who played trombone, were very tight. We studied the music. We knew everybody's solos. We were listening to Sonny and Trane, and Charlie Parker and Bud, and at the same time this new movement called the new thing, or avant garde. Ornette Coleman and Eric Dolphy. So I happened to be playing at the Club Coronet in Brooklyn with Willie Bobo. That band had Chick Corea, Joe Farrell on tenor, Garnett Brown on trombone and Larry Gales on bass. That was my first big time gig. That's also when I met Eric Dolphy. One night Eric walked into the club. Somebody said he asked about me. Remember I'm only 18 now. A week later, Eric called me to go on the road with him to Pittsburgh to Crawford's Grill. That band had Bobby Hutcherson, J.C. Moses, Eric and myself. Up to this point I was more or less coming out of the Lee Morgan/Donald Byrd thing. But it was Eric Dolphy who really turned me around. The thing about Eric's music is that you could either play the changes or be free on it. He taught me to play inside and outside at the same time. It had form and made a lot of sense. Eric is the one who helped me find my own individual approach to playing trumpet. I think a lot of people forget where the force of this music comes from. Eric Dolphy knew what he was doing. Ornette Coleman knows what he's doing. John Coltrane wrote "Giant Steps," which is a harmonic masterpiece. It's like classical music. Can you imagine Arnold Schoenberg not knowing about Mozart and Bach? I ask a young musician, "Okay, play the changes," and bam, he can't play the changes. But on a free thing he can play his ass off. I can't accept that. I had to go through it. I admit that there is new music. Definitely. Nothing stays the same At the same time there's nothing that's really that new. It's all linked. So I like all kinds of music. It's very important to me to know how to play in all the keys, and to play changes. That's the classicism of the music. At the same time, if I get tired of that I play something free. So Eric Dolphy was really important. I studied his music like hell, man. A couple of months after the week at Crawford's Grill, I played with him for one night at the Five Spot. And I made the record with him, Eric Dolphy Memorial. Then I didn't see him for almost a year. But we used to talk all the time. He was becoming very popular at that time. Very controversial. A year later, May, 1964, Eric sent me a letter from Paris. He really wanted me to come and work with him. Two days latter Bobby Hutcherson calls and tells me Eric Dolphy's dead. I said, "That's impossible! I just got a letter from him with all the details and my ticket. He says he's going to meet me at the airport. You gotta be mistaken, man." But I sent a telegram to confirm his death and it was true. So I really felt out of it. A couple of days later I got a letter from Joyce Mortici, who was to be Eric Dolphy's bride. She was studying modern dance in Paris at that time. She wrote me a beautiful letter and asked me to come to Paris anyway. I felt very strange about it, so I talked it over with my parents. They said they thought I should go. I talked to friends like Tyrone Washington and Larry Young and all the cats around Newark that I hung out with and they thought I should go too. So about a week later I went and met Joyce. The strange thing about Eric is that no one knew how he died. There were different interpretations, but nobody really knew. So I'm in Paris now. They had a local rhythm section there for me to play with. I became very close to a young saxophonist who now teaches at the University of Pittsburgh, Nathan Davis. He had been playing with Donald Byrd and Eric. We became very close, almost like brothers, you know. After a while Nathan and I were playing together with Bud Powell, Kenny Clarke and all the cats on the Paris scene, Johnny Griffin, Art Taylor. So I got a change to grow in Paris. I was playing every night, seven nights a week, for six months. I loved it. In fact, I had grown so much in love with Paris at that time that I made a proposal to the club to bring over Larry Young and a drummer by the name of Billy Brooks. The club went for it, so I sent some money for Larry and Billy to come over. We stayed there for something like seven weeks. But after a while, we were starting to wear out our welcome in Paris. It was time to leave. You can get too familiar with a scene, and you gotta split. So we went to Germany. We met Joachim Berendt and did some concerts for him. We also did a record for a label that became MPS. That was with Larry Young on piano, Billy Brooks, Nathan Davis, Jimmie Woode on bass, and myself. We were at Ronnie Scott's in London, at Duke's in Berlin, and in France. Then Larry Young decided to go back home. He was on contract with Blue Note and they wanted him to do some recording in the States. A week after he left I got a letter from my father saying that Horace Silver was asking about me. So I wrote him and asked him to pursue what Horace wanted and find out if he wanted me to play with him. So after a year in Europe, it was time to get back home. Eric had sent me a round trip ticket so I used it to get back home. I got in touch with Horace. Since he had never really heard me, there was a rehearsal. He really dug me and I was in. That band had Joe Henderson on tenor, Roger Humphries on drums, Teddy Smith on bass and Horace and myself. I was very lucky to play with Horace because he was one of my idols. The three bands I always wanted to play with were Horace Silver's, Art Blakey's and Max Roach's. Those were the three for me. I learned a lot about the basics by playing with Horace-form, structure, discipline and whatnot. Horace's music is very disciplined. It was a good experience for me to grow and become a real professional musician. After Joe Henderson split, I recommended Tyrone Washington. After about a year, Horace decided to disband. The new thing was very prevalent and Tyrone and I were starting to affect Horace's music. I guess he decided it was best to disband. Just before I left Horace I recorded an album with Chick Corea. It was originally called Tones For Joan's Bones. I was on trumpet, Joe Farrell on tenor and flute. Steve Swallow on bass, Joe Chambers on drums and, of course, Chick. We even considered getting a band up but it never materialized. After Horace's group was over I started meeting and recording with people like Jackie McLean, Andrew Hill and McCoy Tyner. So there was a lot of recording for Blue Note. I also started getting into the studio scene around '68 and '69 with Clark Terry and Joe Newman, which was a very good experience. And I started to play shows because I was a very good reader. What about your own goals? Well, in regard to my trumpet playing, I've been fortunate to be affiliated with Vincent Bach. They helped me to decide which instruments to use to develop my craft. But my big goal is to play the trumpet like nobody else has played it. I don't know if I'll do it, but i would like to sound like Woody Shaw. I come from the tradition of great trumpet masters of the past like Dizzy, Brownie, Lee and Freddie. But I want to sound like Woody Shaw. I've been heavily influenced by Trane and Eric Dolphy and saxophonists in general, so I see a unique course developing in my own style. I think I sound like Woody Shaw. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well put b3-er! I see no good that can be accomplished from trying to denigrate musicians because of their skin color..Who cares what the skin pigment of a trumpet player looks like? Does anyone choose the cds the play/purchase based on the skin colors of the artists? If there are any, they are quite few and far between...All God's Chillun Got Rhythm! B)

So...what happened to that fellow H. Rap Brown, anyway?

'White Heat is another one of my Top Five Best Films ever list. Don't think there is a better Cagney appearance anywhere. Really 'Top of the World'. Brownie, is there a channel similar to Turner Classic Movies you can watch overseas,(Or TCM via Satellite) or do they still run European and American "classic" films on commercial TV??? You used to see old American films on local commercial channels in the States til the mid 80's, then it seemed all channels decided color films, no matter how crappy, was better than ANY classic film...now kids, especially without cable will never get a chance to see White Heat...old movies are a dirty word with many these days.. No joke, in the mid 90's there was a girl I knew(And almost dated) who said black and white TV hurt her eyes Now you know why, in spite of her great ass, I never asked her out!

They keep delaying, and delaying...I want to hear all those crappy vocals, now!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003Jun12.html

Sex and Bollywood???? http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/....sex/index.html

Just a headline , no link yet on drudge....sad, a true class act...many good films,Cape Fear, Gentleman's Agreement, Spellbound, To Kill a Mockingbird but for some reason, Twelve O'Clock High is my favorite film of his...

Now on tcm in other words! Sorry I forgot they were running all these Maureen O'Sullivan films, and this is a strange one! Laughton gets pretty hammy, but damn, there is something creepy about this 1932 film...saw it years ago on TNT when they ran old films..... a review from allmovie...which gives away the plot if you care(Or even if you don't!) In this adaptation of Jeffrey Dell's play, Charles Laughton recreates his stage role as a seemingly meek bank clerk. To make good his debts, Laughton ingratiates himself with his wealthy Australian nephew (Ray Milland), then poisons the lad and buries the body in his garden. Using the money the nephew had on his person, Laughton invests wisely and becomes rich himself. He rapidly goes to seed, deserting his wife (Dorothy Peterson) for a "woman of the world" (Verree Teasdale) and drinking himself into unconsciousness. Laughton's distraught wife figures out the extent of her husband's crimes, and grimly arranges for Laughton to accidentally kill her—with enough circumstantial evidence planted to convict the husband of murder. Payment Deferred was a particularly vivid experience for supporting actor Ray Milland, who watched in amazement as Charles Laughton got away with some of the ripest "ham" ever seen on film. — Hal Erickson

very close. Dick will last longer....

Greetings Evan!

Got this in an email, thought it was funny...can't think of any to add, but don't let that stop YOU The Washington Post annually asks readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. Here are some recent winners: Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting sex. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (this one got extra credit) Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer. Glibido: All talk and no action. Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly. Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an ass...

Its her navel!!!! Madonna has the ugliest navel ever seen on a woman, and Pink has a amazingly sexy one! Check it out! Well now we know at least one of Berigan's fetishes, which personally I could have gone the rest of my life not knowing and been happy. on. Trust me, it is the tamest one..by far

Look at all the guys showing off, cuz the newest member is a girl! Just kidding, welcome aboard!

Saw some of the 1933 version of the Little Women the other night...and I had a thought...say, Katherine Hepburn is still alive from this film, (Born 1907) and I thought that Francis Dee might still be alive..just now thought to check, and she is as well! (Also born in 1907) I then clicked on the link to Jean Parker, and assumed she died years ago. Well according to allmovie, she was born in 1915, and is still alive as well! So three women who were adults in a film made 70 years ago, are still alive! What are the odds of that?

Well, I like to fart, mine if I constantly fart while you are eating, or having a drink at a bar? Freedom is one thing, and you are right, at least short term, no one is going to die from second hand smoke... but then again, many drinkers ruin their liver, but it takes some time...their choice, at least I don't reek of booze cuz someone else has a drink next to me....I just hate, hate smelling of smoke the rest of the night because I was in a bar, or a poorly ventilated restaurant/club. Smokers have the freedom to smoke...outside(Except in some towns, and that is crazy) let me have the freedom to not cough, not need to put in eye drops, or having to shower before going to bed after being out on a Saturday night...Can you guess I dated a chain smoker at one time??? Kissing her was like liking an ashtray!

Its her navel!!!! Madonna has the ugliest navel ever seen on a woman, and Pink has a amazingly sexy one! Check it out!

Interesting interview...she likes Ella, and Sarah! I bet Britney and Christina have never heard an Ella song...of course, she's 29...just the right age.. Oh, the first lines of the story...."There hasn’t been a musical 360 like this since country superstar Garth Brooks became moody Trent Reznor-lookalike Chris Gaines." Shouldn't that be a 180????

I agree with Chuck and the others that have stuck up for Sammy.As hard as it may be to believe(I sure didn't at first) he may have had just one corked bat...Jayson Stark, who raked Sammy over the coals at first, had this side column within a column about interleague play... It's been tough to find people in baseball, at least early on, who believe that Sammy Sosa didn't know what bat he was using when he picked that cork stick out of the bat rack Tuesday night. But if it turns out that the rest of Sosa's bats are cork-free, at least that would lessen the suspicion that Sosa was cheating when he hit all those 505 home runs. How many bats are broken these days in every game? How many bats break in an inning when a Mariano Rivera or John Smoltz is out there? So if Sosa had been using a corked bat repeatedly for the last five years, or eight years, or 10 years, wouldn't someone have caught him long before this? "Sammy knows how common it is for bats to break," said one Sosa sympathizer. "He also knows that bats that have been `worked on' are more prone to exploding. Sammy is a lot of things. But he's not a stupid guy." That doesn't mean people ought to accept his alibi for this incident without a raised eyebrow. But unlike Albert Belle -- who had a teammate crawl through the ceiling to steal the evidence -- or Wilton Guerrero -- who scrambled around trying to retrieve his cork before the proper authorities did -- at least Sosa's first act was to admit he'd done what he'd done and apologize. Unlike Belle, who denied everything even after being caught, Sosa seems to understand he needs to accept at least some responsibility. In fact, there has already been some speculation that if his suspension is in line with previous bat-tampering suspensions -- i.e., about a week -- he might not even appeal. But of course, once people get beyond the question, "Did Sammy cheat?" the next question is: "Is everybody cheating?" Well, we'd bet that a half-dozen bats break every day in the average major-league game. And no one has been caught corking in seven years. So that tells you the percentage of corkers and cheaters is lower than some people think. But when Dusty Baker tried to claim Tuesday he'd never heard of anybody corking in all his years in baseball, it ought to qualify him for a spot in the next troupe down at Second City. Former Indians have suggested in recent years that they actually had a wood shop at the old Cleveland Stadium in the late 1980s and early 1990s. And who doesn't know that cheating by pitchers and hitters is a more time-honored baseball tradition than the seventh-inning stretch? One player told us recently that bat-corking technology has improved so much in recent years that the holes being bored in the wood can now be as small as 1/16 or 1/8 of an inch -- and still help improve bat speed. And the smaller the holes, the less likely the bat is to break. But the fact is, not even players themselves know how much cheating is taking place. "How much that goes on, I don't know, and I don't want to know," said 20-year-veteran reliever Dan Plesac. "I used to look at Mark McGwire, and there was no doubt in my mind his forearms were corked." http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stark_jayso...on/1563059.html

I saw parts of this movie, and have to admit the musical numbers were hard to take....but...when I flipped back, I was quite surprised to see the serious turn of events, and how well it was played out...the ending was quite moving, and well played, I thought( a bit happier than Romeo and Juliet! )...it is a shame that basically telling the truth about the humanity of all sides is too much for some to take.

well no, not really. Parody that many might not get...and yet, she is more than willing to participate...seeing the video on a 27 inch tv is much better than a 3 inch real player clip...>might be the link to the video< EDIT well, it takes you to the page to play it,and if you right click on the window that opens up, you can play in you own real player, blurry, but still better....

I really like the look of an x within a box....

I wish they carried more titles, but http://www.deepdiscountcd.com has some good prices... some that are just crazy cheap...haven't tried to order it yet, but they have a Bear family Ella Mae Morse set for $67, and Amazon is asking something like $137 for the same set!!! I have used their sister site, http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com/ more, and have had no problems...and gotten films 40% off what amazon has shown the retail as.... PS, if someone does sign up with them, yes for some reason you need to sign up separately for both sites...

You know I really don't need an Elementary School level condescending lecture on the well known. Sorry if you thought it was condescending, Mnytime, but as a doctor, I am sure anytime anyone questions what you say, you are shocked! Is there a single person that posts on this board that does not know the information that Berigan has posted in his post? Well, I knew most of what you posted as well, though your numbers sound pretty far out there As bad as Hitler was (and in no way was I ever saying he was not evil) I don't think he matches Stalin and Mao in terms of murder. Both killed more of there own people than where killed during the whole of WWII and that includes the Jews. In one 5-year span alone Stalin killed 25 million Russians in one of his every so often purges. Mao killed in one way or another close to 100 million Chinese people. Though I have seen some figures that put that number closer to 150 million. And these two where equal opportunity murders. They killed people of every religion and background in their country. In a totally noncondescending way, I ask, where do you get those statistics Mnytime? I have seen stats saying Stalin killing 60-65 million I have yet to find any numbers on Mao murdering close to 100-150 million on the web(I know, they would try to keep the actual numbers quiet, but dictators seem to always keep meticulous records)...from pbs...Under Mao, China underwent enormous social transformation, most notably the liberation of the peasants from centuries-old domination by landlords, and the liberation of Chinese women through the reform of oppressive marriage laws. Yet during the late 1950s and 1960s, Mao implemented a series of disastrous economic and social programs, which brought change at an enormous human cost. From 1958-62, Mao's "Great Leap Forward," a mass campaign to communize agriculture and speed industrial growth, left China's economy in ruins, and led to the deaths of some thirty million Chinese from starvation. And in 1966 Mao called for a "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution," an ideological crusade to train a new generation of revolutionaries-- and purge the CCP of Mao's political opponents. Backed by the military, millions of students mobilized into Red Guard units set about ridding China of institutions and individuals deemed insufficiently revolutionary. Like the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution produced widespread economic chaos. It led to the deaths of more than two million people, including many scholars, intellectuals and artists. By the time of Nixon's visit in 1972, China had begun to emerge from the worst years of the Cultural Revolution, although many of its policies and institutions were not abandoned until after Mao's death in 1976. Here is a tip try not to post in a condescending manner to me on a subject that I have one of my Masters in. Did it all the time to Alexander, I think I said degrees found in Cracker Jack boxes don't count.(Guess that makes me an "Athist") I have a feeling you both went to revisionist U. Another thing, you really didn’t need to guess that I had not seen the latest Hitler/Holocaust film. Since I posted my posts at least 30-40 minutes before the first part of the mini-series started it should not be too hard to figure that out. Your post says Posted: May 18 2003, 10:34 PM I don't know what coast you are on-or if you in-between. Finally, since this was a mini-series on Hitler’s life it would have been stupid to bring up the Holocaust in the first part, which covers the time up to his imprisonment for the Beer Hall Putsch (which happened on Nov 8th & 9th 1923) in 1924. Since he had not yet been made Chancellor (which happens on Jan 30th 1933) it would be silly to talking about Holocaust in the first part of a life story mini series. Also, you can not make a film about Hitler without mentioning the Holocaust. It would be obscene and a white wash. I did watch it this morning since I taped it and it was as I expected. Nothing new or revelatory in anyway was shown. Mnytime, I think in a way, that was the point. Show him just as a "regular" guy, an artist, who had a way with words....I bet they chopped a fair bit off it as well, like A&E did with that recent Napoleon Mini... In fact that whole scene with him kissing up to the Jewish officer so he could get his Iron Cross Second Class was interesting but not accurate. I wonder if the scene with the dog was true or not as well, since it looked like he was the only survivor from that group Mnytime, I agree like I said before, how come no major films about Mao? They did an HBO one on Stalin a few years ago....but come to think of it, I think just about every film about Hitler was a made for TV production...

Mnytime, what is the problem with films about all these films about Hitler or the Holocaust , anyway? I get the feeling since you posted twice about this, that you did not see the film, If you had watched the first part last night, you would know that it had nothing to do with the Holocaust, we are still in the mid 20's. Many millions died because of Hitler. Millions of soldiers died in the conflicts Hitler created. Millions of civilians. And in concentration camps Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, the Bolsheviks. In very horrible ways. Over 6 million Jews were killed; another 3 million non-Jewish Poles and a million Serbs were executed. I even read recently that several thousand Spaniards died in camps as well. These millions died in a very short period, from 1939 to 1945. Hitler tried to eliminate an entire religious group, and damn near did it. Stalin and Mao were around for decades so naturally, they could kill even more than Hitler did. Don't get me wrong, Stalin and Mao were equally as bad of course,(Who would want to argue which was the worst, or best?) and more films should be made about the evils they caused.