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Everything posted by JSngry
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Question - Woody Herman Woody's Winner
JSngry replied to tranemonk's topic in Mosaic and other box sets...
I was surprised at my reaction, to be honest. I just didn't feel that there was consensus about where the pocket was at all times, not just in the sections,m but in the whole band. Sometimes, not always. I'll not "blame" Zito, but the thing about Jake Hanna in that band was that, yeah, he was very stylized, and not necessarily "hip", but it was a thing where everybody else knew where the pocket was, and by god, it was ALWAYS going to be there, so be there or else, you know? Hanna was always a little "metronomic", not necessarily "swinging", but him being that way created a very swinging pocket for the band. One of those delicious contradictions of chemistry, opposites attracting and actually mating. But it might have just been some new(er) guys in the band who hadn't quite gelled yet, and if you look to your lead trumpeter as your ultimate phraser-in-chief, then, hey, Bill Chase was still The Man in this band. It just feels like sometimes he's having to pull some guys along. Or it might have been the venue..you know how "jazz fans" and "big band fans" have this weird tension of only partial overlap sometimes...people coming to see "Woody Herman" and people coming to see Woody Herman's band in the same room...that can be less than groovy, if you want to feel it like that. Or maybe I just wasn't in the mood for this record yesterday. Seems odd...I was playing the Phillips 1964 no too long ago and really digging it. And no matter what, Sal Nestico was a true warrior. Much love for Sal Nestico here. -
Revisiting Oliver Nelson - Help Appreciated
JSngry replied to JazzLover451's topic in Recommendations
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I'd like one of those stickers for my collection.
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Wayne Shorter's Without A Net on the Blue Note label
JSngry replied to EyeSpeech's topic in New Releases
But do you think they are taking big risks? The kind of risks that have huge payoffs a lot of the time but can also result in big mistakes/train wrecks? Yes? No? Maybe? Sometimes? If opportunity presents itself? Size of reward not always related to size of risk? Surviving is the biggest risk of all? -
Revisiting Oliver Nelson - Help Appreciated
JSngry replied to JazzLover451's topic in Recommendations
Oh yeah, almost forgot - More Blues And The Abstract Truth is not a "classic" like its predecessor, but it is very good. Great Ben Webster guest spot on "Blues For Mister Broadway". Also has a/the tune names "Blues And The Abstract Truth", which is quite a knotty proposition. Oliver Nelson - arranger, conductor Thad Jones, Danny Moore (tracks 1 & 5) - trumpet Phil Woods - alto saxophone Ben Webster - tenor saxophone (tracks 4 & 7) Phil Bodner - tenor saxophone, English horn Pepper Adams - baritone saxophone Roger Kellaway - piano Richard Davis - bass Grady Tate - drums I'm also quite fond of the Live From Los Angeles album, but not everybody is. It's just a big band (with Mel Brown on hand for a few things) swinging hard, nothing too complicated at all, but hey...you don't miss your water, etc. https://www.youtube....h?v=yMfTPzCHSP8 Personnel: Bobby Bryant, Conte Candoli, Buddy Childers, Freddy Hill (trumpet), Lou Blackburn, Billy Byers, Pete Myers, Ernie Tack (trombone), Oliver Nelson (soprano sax, arranger, conductor), Gabe Baltazar, Frank Strozier (alto sax), Bill Perkins, Tom Scott (tenor sax), Jack Nimitz (baritone sax), Frank Strazzeri (piano), Monty Budwig (bass), Ed Thigpen (drums) -
Revisiting Oliver Nelson - Help Appreciated
JSngry replied to JazzLover451's topic in Recommendations
LP only (don't be taken in by the Bluebird set of the same name), afaik, but a masterpiece: Most of the Bluebird set is taken from this, but it's best heard on its own: This one is on the Mosaic, but if you don't want all that, look for it separately, not sure if it's been on CD or not: Some really great writing here, unlikely as it might seem: This is worth looking for if you can find it: Not a big band side, small group, w/Oliver in fine form as a player: And then there's all the Prestige stuff...plenty of interesting things there. Yes, you can go wrong by buying a record with the name "Oliver Nelson" on it, but it's a risk I'm usually willing to take. No matter how commercial the setting, there's usually one or two serious WTF?!?!?! moments that just make me smile in spite of whatever else might have (or will) happen. And when he had time/incentive to really take his time and do some serious writing, hey, there was a voice there that would not be denied. -
Andy Bey Ron Cey The Munsingwear Penguin
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Spacey improvisational ECM PIPE ORGAN music!
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Hungry Black Hole Spawns Bizarre Four-Armed Galaxy
JSngry replied to JSngry's topic in Miscellaneous - Non-Political
And to think that there's a black hole in the center of this galaxy ravenously sucking its matter in...if I could even begin to get my head around the reality of that it would scare the living shit out of me. Fortunately, yeah, stunning pictures. That goes a long way towards not trying to think about a whole freakin' galaxy getting sucked into a black hole. Seriously. -
Question - Woody Herman Woody's Winner
JSngry replied to tranemonk's topic in Mosaic and other box sets...
I picked this up b/c it was about to go extinct, and...I dunno...I loved the band just before this, but this one seems not quite broke in yet...some really awkward phrasing on some things, like the charts are still new-ish and/or people are not "in a good place", if you know what I mean...and no, I don't expect Basie or anything, I know what Woody's band sounded like, but compare this to the Phillips stuff, which is really together, everybody's on the same page, and this band just doesn't sound that way to me now. I say "now" because it's been a few decades since I really hear this record and I really liked it then. Now....maybe not so much? It kinda makes me uncomfortable at times...Did Jake Hanna & Phil Wilson not being there leave that big a hole? -
Roy Book Binder Marian The Librarian Marion Cotillard, A Libra
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I'm not sure that "widely imitated" and "personal sound" don't go hand in hand... How many people set out to imitate generic? Personally, I find Benson to be pretty identifiable no matter what the context. And I'm not that much of a "fan". But I do think he's got a lot of skills, and I do find all the snideness towards him to be pretty silly. It's like there's all these "jazz fans" who can't warp their head around the notion that somebody can be a really good "jazz player" and still want to make a lot of money from making non-jazz music- and then dare to have the acumen to actually go ahead and do it. It's like they take it as some kind of "fuck you" to All That Is Holy And Untouchable About Jazz, when in reality, it's just some guy wants to have a really nice material life for himself and "playing jazz" wasn't going to do that for him. "selling out" is when you can't sleep at night from guilt or something, or have to get all warped in the head because you can't live with yourself. I'm pretty sure that George Benson sleeps just fine and won't be institutionalized any time soon. And if not, True Jazz Fans can REJOICE!!!!
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I do get the wtf chuckles about not being able to tell the difference between Lockjaw & Zoot because of the tempo, or whatever left-field reason he had. That's just wack-a-doodle-doo. I'm sure that Branford is a nice enough guy, though, and that counts for a lot away from music. But dude, Lockjaw...I could tell Lockjaw if I was deaf in one ear and couldn't hear out of the other two. Lockjaw would see to it.
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You'll be getting the sticker, then?
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Their studio argument tape was a real hoot!
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Spacey improvisational ORGAN music!
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The "three months" thing is apocryphal. But even to this day, there's a noticeable differentiation between who knows how much of what. And that has as much to do with anything as they and/or us need for it to at any given moment. I would find it silly, very silly, to pretend that, say Sonny Simmons and, say, Marzette Watts knew the same amount of the same thing. But after getting past that, it comes back to what works for who and why, and how much of all that matters to me and to what degree for how long - and why. I would like to yet again call bullshit on the notion that Albert Ayler and Pharoah Sanders were just making noise or whatever. No. They were playing the saxophone, they knew exactly what they were doing and they had total control over it. If people can't or won't hear the focus and direction of what they were playing and can't or won't hear or know the difference between that and mere finger-waggling, then so be it. Those guys could play the saxophone. (point of interest, perhaps - I got a good buddy who was hanging with George Garzone - everybody digs George Garzone, right? - and my buddy says, George, how did you get to be so open to everything, and Garzone says, Albert Ayler, listen to Albert Ayler, that's the shit right there, so my buddy comes home and says you got some Albert Ayler sides, right? and I say LOL HELLYEAH BITCH, so I pull some out and he gets to listening analytically in a tenor sense and I can see his jaw start dropping further and further and he finally says, damn, this motherfucker is HEARING this shit, and I say, yeah, well, yeah, exactly, so my buddy picks up his tenor and start finger-waggling trying to make it come out - I should add that my buddy is a freaking virtuoso in every way of the traditional sense - and finally he starts laughing and says "this...is going to take some time". Which really, is what Trane was so excited about with Ayler, the whole "upper partials of energy" thing, it's not imagination, it exists, scientifically, overtones and speed of sound and all that stuff, and that's what moved Pharoah into how he played with Trane, checking out THAT thing instead of the changes thing that he started out being into. Trane would exhaust himself and then hand off to Pharoah to move into that next level of energy. And Pharoah, again, was playing very specific things, not just making random noises. So, "squealing", yeah, if that's all anybody can hear, well then, ok, that's all there is in it for you. But that's not all there is in it. Hardly. Anything but. That's really not even what it is, but..people choose what matters to them and what doesn't matter, and why or why not, so, hey.) Archie Shepp, well, Archie could go either way, depending on how fuquitous he was feeling at any given day. And as he got older, he knew what he didn't know and set about learning it. But he was one of those guys who, what he did know, he could work the shit out if as he saw fit. "Frankenstein" (on The Way Ahead) is one tough tenor solo, no bullshit there. But the you get that Quarter/Dime thing and it's like, ok, hope you feel better now, dude. Point being just that everybody's got freedom inside them and everybody's got limits and at any given moment, choices get made. Once choice after another, pretty soon you got a life going on, and then...be ready!
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Besides, absolutes are only as absolute as the belief system they serve. One guy thinks you gotta make all the changes to be "saying something", another guy thinks, no, what I have to say ain't got nothing to do with no changes, and...they're both right. One guy thinks you gotta have a steady pulse to swing, another guy says, no, swing is relative to its own internal imperatives, not some metrical snapshot, and...they're both right. One guy says says, hey, you've held that horn for three months, you have no right to make any claim of making any kind of statement, the other guy says, yes I do, I've used those three months to hone in on the exact sounds I want to make, I know how to make those sounds and since I know what I'm doing as far as what I'm doing, I have every right to make this statement, and again - they're both right. So, these "absolutes" are only valid within the belief system that they sustain. What people have a the right (I'd call it an obligation for any "serious listener", but that's an absolute within my own belief system) is to check it all out, and decide what's what for yourself, and understand that it might be something completely different for somebody else. Also, the "artist" needs to realize that the choices they make are just one half of the equation. The other half is on the receiving end. The guy who plays all the changes and swings and has virtuoso command can be just as obsolete and irrelevant as the guy who is still making the same three-months-on-the-instrument statement for 25 years, just because times come when peoples done heard both of those things to death and they both end up being audio and spiritual wallpaper instead of windows to new perspectives and inspirations. Except for those for which they don't. So...there's your absolute right there. "There are no absolutes" is an absolute itself, and that's yet another contradiction in which we find our truth.
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Paul Tanner, Inventor of Electro-Theremin, RIP
JSngry replied to Teasing the Korean's topic in Artists
That article says that he did not invent it, but rather "developed" it. -
If there are no absolutes, then there really are no poseurs and it's all interpretation, on both the sending and receiving end. I tend to accept that, but I also tend to accept that I also have the right and ability to accept or not accept whatever interpretations are sent my way to be interpreted, and to whatever extent and to whatever ends may arise. Not sure if that's absolute, though.
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The "Mood Indigo" on Ellington Masterpieces, has anybody mentioned that yet? That's another one where the first time you hear it, you never know how/when/if it's going to end. Any number of places it could end - and no doubt did, in various settings - but no, it just keeps evolving and getting more and more abstract. When it finally does end...are you sure that that's it? Not until the next tune starts, and even then... That's the kind of "long" work that makes the first/best impression on me, the ones where things keep happening that you just didn't see coming and make you wonder WTF is going to come of all this? Of course, the long grooves and soul-searing intensity burns are also satisfying, but that's not so much a matter of surprise as it is primal affirmation. But stepping into a piece of music that hooks you in and then threatens to throw you off a cliff and not catch you before you crash and die (but ultimately does), now THAT'S some kind of a thrill ride for the mind, soul, and body.
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Cornbread & Dippin' are the apotheosis of that. Of what? Of that. THAT.
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