JSngry

Saw a used LP (has it ever made CD?) for cheap, might go back tomorrow, good lard whelping and the greek don't cry. Any good? Carisi's name always piques my curiosity.

Well, I might be drunk, but she, sir, is a parrot, and I can sober up. Wasn't that how it went?

Obviously it would!

Would the other one be "Infinity Is", or something similar?

That 1960(?) JATP IN EUROPE stuff would make a nice set too. Was it ever released "under one roof", or just in individual albums? The jam w/Getz, Byas, and Hawk is choice.

We'll have a poll soon. Maybe there are those who oppose the idea but are hesitant about saying so. This will be their chance to be heard and to be counted.

You really think Sly was a "ghetto poet"? Some do, but I don't. Used to, but not any more, upon further review, as they say. Certainly, he was deeply racially aware (how could he NOT be?), and deeply in touch with his roots, but he was just as deeply in touch with some OTHER roots too, and I think he had a totally different agenda than, say, Curtis Mayfield. To me, the story of what happened to that agenda is the real story inside THERE'S A RIOT GOIN' ON. I used to think otherwise, but I've become convinced that the REAL riot that was goin' on in this album was inside Sly's head, not on the streets. THAT riot had already been covered, and covered well, with STAND. Now, Sly was taking it OFF the streets and into himself. DEEP into himself. Remember, he was two - Sylvester Stewart, the child who "just loves to learn", who produced the Beau Brummels and who studied Rimsky-Korsakov's orchestration book & The Beatles as much as he did R&B and Gospel; and Sly Stone, the child "you just love to burn", who led a defiantly multi-racial, multi-gender band that white capitialists and black militants alike wanted to own in toto. After a while, they both got lost inside each other, and the only way out WAS out. So far out that neither would be heard from again, not even amongst themselves. FRESH, in spite of the funkiest jam EVER ("In Time") begs the question more than just a little too much. Did we want him to stay? Well, hell yeah. But did HE want to stay? That question had long before been answered. Watch out, 'cause the summer gets cold, even with all the hot fun in it. That's what happens when you look at the devil and grin at his gun. Once you get so far lost, can you ever be yurs elf agin? Can you make it if you try? Are you really crazy if you cop out? Even if you don't need to move? Sounds like grounds for a riot to me.

Ok, this is freaky. I'm walking around the house doing chores with John's disc playing, and "Mr. Jones" comes on. Damned if, from a distance and filtered through a wall or two, Farrell doesn't sound like George again. To complicate matters, there are spots where Farrell plays some Coleman-esque licks, and their tones get similar enough in the upper register to where a little tampering with the overtones, like listening thru indirect and/or sub-standard means, and they DO begin to sound alike unless you're listening closely and carefully. Which leads me to a flashback as to why I stopped listening to Elvin's bands so much back in the day - there seemed to be a de facto "Elvin Tenor Vocabulary" that everybody who played with him in the late-60s/early 70s used to one degree or another, from Coleman, Farrell, & Frank foster on thru Liebman & Grossman. I mean, it's beautiful, but after a while, it all starts to sound, if not the same, at least a little similar, if you know what I mean. It's a necessary thing to go through, and it's always good to come back to it, but having this bit of confusion reminds me why I gave it up as heavy, regular listening. But to those who have asked, yeah, get the Mosaic. There's a ton of good stuff on there, a fair amount of great (and yes, this cut is one of them, never mind me and my personal head trips), and the worst is still ok. Those bands Elvin led back in the day were hugely influential and popular in a lot of circles, the players created a template of sorts for a lot of contemporary jazz, and you need to hear them and know about them if you haven't already. Better to get into it and sort it all out for yourself than to never have known about it at all. And no matter what else is going on, there's Elvin, and that's enough by itself.

In all honesty, what probably happened was that I heard the first few notes of the head, knew that I knew the tune, remembered it being George, even though it wasn't (for some strange reason, I always think that this tune is on COALITION, which is my favorite George w/Elvin, on "Yesterdays", so there's probably some weird mis-wired mind-association going on), and went thru the thing just assuming that it was him. The cheapo reproduction systems certainly didn't do anything to shock me out of my delusion, but, bottom line, I just got lazy on this one. My bad.

It means what you think it does, that Lee plays on tracks 4 through 7. A hyphen could also be used.

I think the Horizon stuff is great. The BN stuff is good, but the Horizon stuff is great. Anybody heard his Konnex things? I haven't. Joe Milazzo played me some relatively newly released live Mongo thing on Columbia from the late-60s or so that was positively gonzo. Gotta get that one! And both his and Charles Sullivan's Strata-East dates merit a-huntin'.

Hey wow! Me too, nowthatyoumentionit! Well, ok. In the 70s (last time I heavily listened to this stuff), it sounded like, uh... I don't remember. It was the 70s... In my car, over some $9.95 headphones on the office PC, and through my so-so computer speakers at home, it sounded like George. A LOT. But I just played it on my "real" system (not necessarily that much of an improvement, btw...) for the first time (I seldom get to do any listening that's not "on the run" in some form or fashion), and yeah, it's Farrell. Unmistakably so. And - I just A-B'ed the Lp with John's BFT, and although the LP is a bit wetter (and a lot brighter), it still is umistakeably Farrell. Go figure THAT! So much for depending on your memory and for sound quality never mattering...

Spin-O-Rama was the ORIGINAL label? Had a listen this morning, and it's nearly hamp all the way (surprise! ), other than "Flying Home" which features Richardson and the two tenorists, one of whom's job is to play Jacquet's solo (and neither of whom sounds the Board on DJ, which in this context is, of course, no grounds for comparison). Other than that, and a bit of locked-hands piano from Buckner on "Boogie Woogie", the band exists to play closing chords and tags. Seems like a horrible waste of a great band, but otoh, Hamp is, as always, a combination of superior musicality/invention and shameless pandering, a combination that for some reason endears him to me, mainly, I guess, because he's so damn EXTREME in both directions. Oh, btw - "Out Of Breath" is actually "I Can't Get Started" (makes sense, right?), & "Autumn In New York"" is actually "September In The Rain". I think they used those psedonyms (on this album, "Malibu Swing" (Stardust), "Autumn" (September..), "Breathless Vibes" (...Started) & "Short Of Breath" (...Boogie...) because there's no melody statements. The things begin with Hamp soloing, and stay that way. $ave$ on paying publ$hing royaltie$, don't cha' know, which might explain the plethora of "budget" labels this thing seems to have appeared on. All in all, not a "lost treasure" or anything, but for 3 bucks, a mighty fine addition to the "rest of the story" part of the collection (a part I find essential in its OWN way), enhanced by the superb "you are there, sitting around the campfire while the band plays" quality of the original Coronet pressing. Spin-O-Rama was the ORIGINAL label?

No surprises here. Now, if Sid Vicious did the show....

I slept on Shuggie on the basis of hearing some of his blues-rock stuff, which did nothing for me at the time. Like most, I didn't get hip to I.I. until the recent reissue (and unlike most, I have my homie Joe Milazzo to thank for pulling my coattails to it). Fascinating stuff, almost the "missing link" between drugged-out Sly & drugged-out Brian Wilson! Another point - upon further reading of that Cocoran article, he goes back onto my Enemies List, most likely permanently. Every damn thing he mentions on there comes from that British magazine (VIBE, perhaps?) article, not a bit of original information, so he can bite me.

Keep an eye on e-Bay. It occasionally (and I do mean occasionally) pops up there. Usually not much bidding on Warne items either (although the Imperial stuff seems the exception), so if you play your hand cool, you might get a good deal. I did.

I'd like to thank John for including a piece by Quartet Out in his BFT, and I'm heartened by all the positive response to it. There is a bit of a story behind the album, and that cut in particular, but I don't have time to go into it right now. Besides, we need some more comments now that the answers have been revealed! But FWIW, the vocal thing heard before the music starts is the words, "whilst travelling through this unfriendly world". It's a sample I lifted off of a Gospel compilation CD and had some Beatle-esue fun with (as happened several times on the album), and it's spoken by Evangelist Sister Winn. I'll talk about that (and other things pertaining to the cut) in greater detail after others have weighed in. (and yes - I am TOTALLY embarrased that I'm the one person who should have gotten #11 and didn't!)

The title might very well be, but otherwise, I don't know. WGO was released May 20, 1971; TARGO Nov 20, 1971. Marvin recorded most of his album in early 1971. Sly worked on his for over two years. That's the gap between STAND (another serious classic, but an ENTIRELY different kind of music in both feel and lyrical content) & TARGO, anyway. Only the single of "Thank You..." b/w "Hot Fun In The Summertime" & the GREATEST HITS album (one of the all-time great "feelgood" records) filled the gap (and by all accounts, Epic/Columbia was getting REALLY antsy about that). The article I mentioned earlier tells tales of tracks being recorded on the run and on the fly (apparently, between the heavy drug use and the group's being the target of several militant groups "attention", things were more than a little hectic during those years, and there was never really time for "rest" in the conventional sense of staying in one place for very long, although AMG says that the album was recorded at John Phillips' home studio. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between), and innumerable groupies being "auditioned" as vocalists using the tapes, which is why a lot of the vocal tracks sound so hissy - there had been so many erasures that that ended up being the "natural" sound of the tape! So, sure, I think the album titles might be related, but otherwise, I don't think so. They lyric concerns are waaaaay different between the two albums. Marvin is reaching out to the world, and Sly is watching himself die.

It's here, too:

Not that anybody can prove, but you know how THAT goes....

More was BAAAAAAADDDD!!! Tumbao's Chano Pozo set was most impressive. If this one lives up to the standards of that one.... I'll keep my eyes open for this one, I assure you. Thanks for the heads-up! BTW - have you heard More w/Perez Prado? Early work for both of them, apparently. I've just found a cut or two on various rogue compilation tapes (sic), but the combination seems to have been dynamite.

"Hi Ho, Bernstein!"

Don't know yet. I will soon enough, though, and will let you know. That lineup sure DOES look good, doesn't it! And yeah, the liners say 1961, but 1951 would be more likely for a label like Coronet, I'd think. The prospect of hearing Johhny Board (aka Mr. "the OTHER tenor player on Sonny Stitt Live At DJ Lounge") blow some more is tantalizing, let me tell you. I hope it happens. If you don't mind, could you give me some klind of idea on what OTHER labels this might have been released on? Anything even remotely "major", at least in jazz terms? No matter, though. Thanks Brownie!

What is "proper" appreciation? I can kill a flower just by looking at it, but I love them anyway. Forget about me actually raising one, though. Ugly. Pure-D UGLY! My wife, otoh, has the proverbial green thumb, but I doubt that she knows a pistil from a stamen, which I do. So who's got the "proper" appreciation of THIS form of life? I think we both do, in our own way, but SHE'S the one who needs to have the garden. Even though we both can derive genuine satisfaction from it, it is no doubt a "different" satisfaction that we each receive. It's the same w/Trane. People DO appreciate it. Why they do is a question with many different answers, I'm sure, and some of them would include the "I say I like it becasue I'd like to like it type". But you're right -to assume that all, or even most, would fall into this category IS smug, and moreso than perhaps you realize. Nothing personal, honestly, but this kind of thing (why do other people REALLY like what they say they like and do they in fact REALLY like it) seems to concern you much more than it does me. I will, for now anyway, respectfully (which, yes, is a change from my previous position) withdraw from the discussion, because I don't think that I will ever have "answers" to the questions you raise. Do you talk to many experienced musicians and/or many highly-experienced, veteran listeners, or do you just talk just to relatively novice-level "fans"? Your sampling might be severely skewered. And honestly, there'a vaguely voyeuristic quality to the whole question that makes me feel slightly (and undefinably) uncomfortable. But that's just me. I will say this though - thinking about art and jazz and where they're going never actually GOT them anywhere. It's the DOing that gets the GOing accomplished, and that's a process that will never be perfect until the going gets to where it needed to get, at which point the whole thing's over, and it's time for the next trip to begin. "Perfection" is an end, literally, not a process. Have a nice day, and perhaps some other time we can continue.