JSngry

Not really....not all of those records would spoil anybody. A lot of them were solid B+ efforts ?And more than a few weren't that good. But the great ones, and there are some great ones, just amplify how many of them aren't. I have know plenty people - myself included - who bought a Sonny Stitt record or five "just because". That was a better audience than the one today! But when it comes time to thin the herd, a lot of those will be going.

You don't avoid AIDS just because you stop doing stuff. It doesn't work like that. Did Miles have it and not want it revealed because of the stigmas involved (would the Macho Miles thing have stood up to the revelations that he was a macho bisexual? I've heard too many stories from too many places to not believe that he was...)? I don't know. Did he not have it at all? I don't know that either. But I would not be surprised one way or the other, and in all honesty, if I was to bet,, it would be that the "cleaning up" stuff was because he was scared of something, possibly several things. He knew what all kinds of shit he had been doing more than anybody.

Never? Not even once to see who the hell they were alking about? Not even after reading and posting to this thread? With some clips already just stitting there to click on? Never?

Plenty of love for that one here!

I could be interested...

Probably, the Quartet had become a very popular college attraction. Aren't they credited for creating the "college circuit" for modern jazz? They were pretty popular before Time Out, but I'm not sure that the fan base noticed the change in the group, although, they still played a lot of standards live. But once you have a hit record... The stereotype that I came into was those same college fans, only as adults, older and kinda lost about what "modern" was meaning now.

I went on a Total Immersion Desmond Trip a few years ago, so I got into a LOT of Brubeck. Here's some of what I learned: Brubeck was much more of a composer before the Quartet got going. Those Octet & Trio records of his...not really fond of them, but they're not bullshit, by any means. Remember, Cecil Taylor openly claimed to have been inspired by those records! The early, pre-Columbia Quartets are a totally different bag. Loose improvisations on standards, mostly, and the groups was set up for the bass and drums to set a groove and hold it while Brubeck and Desmond did there things, separately and together. It worked like a charm, and one live record may not be enough, just sayin'... When the group signed to Columbia, they kept on recording live and mostly standards still, with a notable exception or two. Brubeck also did two solo albums pretty early on that are pretty substantial. Brubeck plays Brubeck, I think it's called, is in particular very worthwhile. As the group evolved more into a vehicle for Brubeck's compositions, things changed. The looseness had to be sacrificed, it seemed, as long-familiar material was replaced by new material. Different paradigm. Of course, Desmond, being Desmond, was always there. Morello changed everything, imo. Now Brubeck could compose group pieces and not just "songs". To pun it out, there were definite repercussions. Time Out, geez, you get a hit LP and a Top 10(?) single, yeah, the game changes. Not nearly as many Live albums after that, but the few that there were, were good, especially Carnegie Hall. But...studio albums, most of them with "concepts"...some are better than others. The "Jazz Impressions of..." records are excellent. The "Time..." records..an inconsistent bunch, and the rest...I bought that studio albums box, and it seems that once you hit 62 or so, it becomes an inconsistent lot, like they're making the records just to have product. And the Cole Porter record has moments of tru sublimity. Brubeck himself...part of what made his interplay with Desmond so special was that it was a true conversation. When that conversation got triangulated with Morello in the mix...I'm not sure Desmond wanted a three-way conversation. so things changed, the dynamic changed. For better or for worse...different records will tell different stories. But it definitely was a change. Brubeck's image after Time Out seemed to be somebody who appealed to white guys with jackets with elbow patches, pipes and intellectual affectation, which may not be totally incorrect. There's still a lot of that in the air, and I was in there for a pretty long time. But what I have learned is that that's not really the full story, and definitely not the full one. And not to be too blunt about it, but if they had all disappeared by 1956-57 or so, like gotten jazz raptured or something, they would be legends, these white guys from San Francisco who found a way to do things totally their own way. The piano player was a little poundy, but oh well about that,. Lon pointed out a few decades ago that he heard similarities to Monk in his playing and I poopoo-ed that idea then, but upon further review...yeah, there are points of similarity. And I think they're entirely coincidental. Brubeck...made his own way a s a player, totally. Of course, that didn't happen, so now you got the whole stereotype/myth/narrative to wade through, so good luck on that. But it's a wade worth making if you don't mind making it. And if you do mind, that's ok, just know that your opinion cannot be considered an informed one, because there's a surprisingly LOT of "there" there to deal with. Morello was not in the Quartet until 1957, and imo didn't really start to "Joe Morello" the gig until Jazz Impressions Of Eurasia (which is a REALLY good record, check it out). But what sealed the deal was that drum solo on Take Five. Desmond had mixed emotions about all that...I read on thing about him saying "I wrote it to be a drum solo, not a hit records", so... But pre-Morello Brubeck is a different world!

We got lucky with Josh, our Golden, he lived to be a month or so short of 15 and his decline was slow and natural. Even though he ended up sleeping most of the time, when he was awake, he was still loving and "playful". It wasn't until the last few days that he reached the pint where he couldn't get up to urinate that we realized that it ws time to let him go, so we put the top down on the convertible, propped him up and the back seat, drove him around his neighborhood (and it was very much his, everybody knew him and loved his goofy ass) and took him to he vet to say goodbye. He had a smile on his face, but it sure seemed like he knew what we knew, and was ok with it. We stayed with him until he went back to sleep and he looked like he had been looking for most of the last year or so. Only this time... We loved that dog. Our kids grew up with him, into adulthood, Josh was always there and after they moved out, he was happy to see them when they returned. But we all knew it was time to let him go, he had no quality of life ahead of him, and he deserved to go with dignity. I was in no hurry to get a new dog, but my wife felt differently. So after a few months, we got this rescue dog who is....a trip. Brenda took to her immediately. It took - it's taking - me a bit longer. Totally different personality. But i the end, once they know you are taking care of them and aren't there to abuse or otherwise go wild on them (this one was initially...feral-ish, which could be amazing at times, irritating as fuck at others), the mutual trust begins and that eventually becomes love. When it gets to where you can talk to them and they understand, that's when you have a serious relationship. That's when it's fun again.

Good, we fell into that trap when we moved our deceased mother-in-law's stuff down here. Thought we'd get it all sorted out in six months or so, ended up taken 3+ years, as when we got rid of some of her stuff, we'd put that much or more of our won back in there, and oh, by the way - we got a great introductory rate that was good for about 6 months, but then the creep up began...i'd advise anybody who does this to get in only as needed and to get back out ASAP. Otherwise...$$$$

He WAS square. Very. But in a totally hip way! Seriously, check out the early live Quartet stuff on Fantasy. If the later stuff became a bit of a house pet, that stuff was a bit of the wild animal, as unlikely as that sound. Domesticated, yes. House pet, no.

Nelson played on Newman"s live record on Mercury and was a frequent Nelson sideman in the NYC days, do that definitely sounds like some business reciprocity money hands being played!

Oh, as far as Stott having a band, remember that Stitt & Jug were a pretty busy affair for a good few years in the early 1950s. But to the OP,"s point, that circuit did not draw "critical attention". In that world, a case could probably be made that Stitt was a star BEFORE Dexter, but that stardom shrunk as the infrastructure that supported it did. Stitt was not temperamentally inclined to adapt, and so it went.

maybe you need to find a bigger storage unit?

I think I had settled down/in by that then, but I sure hope they still live.

Both, kinda. Miles led a wild life.

My doctor tells me that a good strong stream is a sign of health. A recommended pursuit!

Started that one as well, earlier this week. I have some quibbles with the style of writin, some things are a little broadly/overly generally stated, but I've accepted that and am happily moving ahead. This is a history from inside my own time-span, told with just enough chronological distance to aim at history instead of fanbook, although...there's still that in there on occasion. Still better that than somebody doing it academically 50 years from now and missing the point(s) entirely.

And The Columbia Jazz Records Of 1959 Alumni Association seconds your thought, and reminds you that your contributions are what keeps their vitally important work going both today and tomorrow. So thank you for your support!

Mine too, at least from the Columbia years...the Fantasy records, though...different animal, mostly standards and VERY improvised, but very often WOW. Eurasia, though, yeah, it's got mojo. Here's something that is almost as mesmerizing as the 800% slower Perry Mason them.

Never easy to have to do that. Here's hoping that a new one comes along and a new story begins.

"Set-ups", yeah! Is that still at hing, do young people today even know what that is? Does it even work like that now? The bar-in-a-briefcase too, hell yeah. I used to work with an older guy who carried a bar in a freakin' double-sized trumpet gig bag. People like that were pros! They always drank and never got sloppy, always handled business and were always sippin', having a taste (a taste!). I suppose you could call them high-functioning alcoholics, but...they would have to decide that for themselves. I just know that when I drank, they were my role models, and now that I don't drink, I have the highest respect for how they accepted the responsibility of their choices. That's the kind of jazz audience I grew up around, a community, not an "audience". RIP.

Stitt was the proverbial "lone wolf". He did have a band for a while, the great group with Don Patterson & Billy James. That band could raise hell! But apart from that, his basic personality and lifestyle habits were such that he was one of those guys who would and could go from town to town as a single (and let's reflect on how that lifestyle has not totally disappeared, not yet, but it's getting pretty...rare). And he could easily suplement his income by picking up any kind of a record date, he could get paid for making a record, people knew they could sell a sonny Stitt record, not in smash hit quantities, but enough to make it plausible to do it again sometimes. I guess in his earlier years he was a really nasty junkie and in his later years he drank a whole lot and could get mean there, too. And stories abound of him looking for a fight, musically, even when playing with competent local rhythm sections. I mean, I love the guy, But - he did not have an unlimited vocabulary, and the interest in his records was never really waht he was going to play, but how he wa going to play it. Same with Dexter, but Dexter was one of those guys who HAD to be a "star". I get the feeling that whenever Dexter got high (on whatever) that it was a party, whereas with Stitt it was always going to be by himself as soon as possible. When it comes to business, these things matter.