robertoart

In context. My link

Chomp. Chomp. Chomp.

Corporeality.

Come back Clem, all are forgived. GM You want to read more sub-hokum jive talk on this thread?

Grammar is also a guide to ways of making sentences that make sense. The part of the quoted West sentence that refers to the Schubert sonata -- "like ... Schubert's tempestuous piano Sonata No. 21 in B flat (D.960) I will not let life or death stand in the way of this sublime and funky love that I crave!" -- can only mean that Schubert's sonata, like West, "will not let life or death stand in the way of [the] sublime and funky love that [it craves]!" The piece is tempestuous, but it ain't tempestuous enough to do that -- though I do recall the time Debussy's "Prelude to Afternoon of a Faun" leaked some semen onto my shoe. Further, as I showed above, while West's sentence can be recast to link up Heathcliff and Catherine to what West feels, I don't see how the Schubert sonata can be stitched into West's "I" -- i.e. in a coherent sentence. Suggestions are welcome. A Debussy fan with a shoe fetish. I've heard about that. Grammar is also a guide to ways of making sentences that make sense. The part of the quoted West sentence that refers to the Schubert sonata -- "like ... Schubert's tempestuous piano Sonata No. 21 in B flat (D.960) I will not let life or death stand in the way of this sublime and funky love that I crave!" -- can only mean that Schubert's sonata, like West, "will not let life or death stand in the way of [the] sublime and funky love that [it craves]!" The piece is tempestuous, but it ain't tempestuous enough to do that -- though I do recall the time Debussy's "Prelude to Afternoon of a Faun" leaked some semen onto my shoe. Further, as I showed above, while West's sentence can be recast to link up Heathcliff and Catherine to what West feels, I don't see how the Schubert sonata can be stitched into West's "I" -- i.e. in a coherent sentence. Suggestions are welcome. Well, "making sense" is really nothing more than a consensual agreement to convey thoughts in mutually understood terms. As for Schubert, I thought I understood what he meant. Seems like he was projecting his personal drama into Schubert's music and finding relative equivalency therein. Not unlike an emotional synesthesia, hearing music, seeing a life's tale. Last I looked, that was allowed, albeit at one's own peril, some of this music being what it is and all... Seems like a waste of time to me, what with the readily availability of "Bernadette", but to each their own, and besides, who the fuck IS Cornell West anyway, really, that I should care about what he hears in Schubert or any other damn thing? I see your visit to Texas has paid lasting dividends! Are you serious? You probably are.

Yes I read it. The reader comments underneath are just as interesting, and intelligent. Sure beats scrolling through Youtube comments

Yes it's a bit embarrassing. Seems like he's had a lot of fun trying to reach his ideal though. Anyway since when does bed hopping need to be a negative critical factor in the life of ideas. And who would want to really examine the dialectic of 'long term true love' between pragmatism and (lack of) opportunity. Ditto.

Baraka, not Barak. Let's not cause a second crucifixion..

Wouldn't know about the film but some EXTREMELY early photos of Kenny Burrell can be found in the BEFORE MOTOWN book by Gallert/Bjorn about the pre-1960 jazz and R&B history of Detroit (great book in every other respect too, BTW) Thanks. I would like to read that one. Sounds great.

Really? Care to elaborate?

Just saw this thread doing a search. The links are now dead unfortunately. Never seen a photo of Burrell/Kessell/Green before that's not a screen shot from the DVD. This thread was from a time before my internet days. Any chance of sharing again if it's not restricted. Didn't know that they may have been playing together on other occasions. Although Grant Green mentioned in interviews that he and Kenny Burrell and Wes Montgomery used to share the stage together in clubs back in the early sixties. Also what would be the earliest known film of Kenny Burrell?

It's hard to argue against what you say. Especially in the context of the bigger picture. I too, am "taking for granted" something like a liberation theology point of view. I also listen to West and his Christianity through his lens of Black American Christianity (as best I can anyway). And I know he is Left. Perhaps an exchange like this, between himself and Baraka, is different to the way he would negotiate his Christianity with 'mainstream America'.

Baraka's line about Jesus and the money lenders just seemed like another cheap shot at the Jews. West's retort that "I'm a Christian" doesn't sound too out of context given other comments I have heard West speak. He constantly defers to Christianity as a buffer between his rage at the injustices of America, and the use of violence. Him maintaining a Christian stance in his otherwise Socialist position doesn't seem hypocritical to me.

Leibman might have been systematic as a player, but he sure can't put 2 and 2 together any other way. In the Davis interview (in the other thread) he reflects on mimicking Miles style and personality, then can't work out why Miles later tells him not to be a Mockingbird.

Can't someone contrive some kind of University research project to get access to, and resolve the info for these sessions. Perhaps even annotate the discographies. You know, session lost, session cancelled, session intact but trainwreck, or, couldn't find it where it was supposed to be, but it could be somewhere else. Look in the box marked, 'the psychedelic soul sitar guitar of Howard Roberts' (not that there's anything wrong with that).

You're on the stage with Elvin Jones, he sees Miles Davis in the crowd, and whispers in your ear "“What’s that little black motherfucker doing here?” And there's a better gig

Smart guy, but the first comment is a stupid statement from any angle, and the second is a stupid answer to your question. Here is the complete reference My link

Thanks for throwing the name Jacques Lesure out there. Ah. The consolations of being right. My minor conversion system never fails. "liberal inroads" My link

Amiri Baraka: Well it’s like [American author, actor, and civil rights activist] Cornel West. He called Obama a white man in black skin. This guy taught at Harvard and Princeton. I don’t know many black people who teach at Harvard and Princeton. If you got into one of them you’d be lucky. I was at a Socialist conference and these people were making all these ridiculous statements. I said “I’m a Communist, I want to know where are the Socialists, where are the Communists in this group?” And Cornel says “I’m a Christian.” So I said: “That’s cool,” but I reminded him, “You know why they killed Christ, don’t you? Kicking the money lenders out of the temple.” hmmmmm.

No - they cook the same stuff, but horribly! MG

It's bangers and mash in Gambia then is it.

"whom is enjoying the shadow of whom" seems like a popular quote. for those (like me) whose Ellington is not what it should be, My link My link My link I will peruse.

Lest it seem that I discard post-colonial studies, no, it has provided useful frames for literary and social discourse. My problem is with an academic left that is hermetically cocooned in the certainty of its "postmodern" perspectives contra differing (whether competing or actually complementary) perspectives, a kind of fundamentalism. Actually, it's probably very relevant to discussions of American music, as one of many modalities. Here are some links that come from positive perspectives, not some kind of David Horowitz hatchet job, which would be much worse, I'm sure, than what it sought to critique. http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Intro.html http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/722/10/ Clearly, since we're probably in agreement on most things since your conversion. Of course, political converts, regardless of the direction of the conversion, are often of a fundamentalist intellectual style, so it's an easy shift, replacing one fundamentalism with another. Ummmm. Sounds very Zizekian. Although I think the way he uses the European traditions (Enlightenment, Christianity etc.) is more analogous to the way Bird used Gershwin. I will read your references.

I think most of the focus in arguments from Black musicians is culture and social history, not race per se. As I understand it, Payton talks about the 'authenticity' of a Black American social response to music as being different to a non-Black one. I think he is saying the divisions between soul and jazz and hip hop and blues etc are not as categorical in the minds and ears of Black Americans. The music is heard in a more wholistic way. I think the music of the sixties and seventies from Black musicians exemplifies that. Now, perhaps, there is an element of self consciousness in contemporary Black musicians from a jazz background trying to affirm that. But that just may be a sign of the times, and a self consciousness derived from an urgency to have to define that fact, rather than just live it. I don't hear arguments coming from Black musicians that non Black musicians can't play the music as authentically as anyone else. I also get concerned when I read these arguments, that there is a misrepresentation of the terms of 'authenticity', that leads the dominant voices into areas that will eventually erase the privileged position of 'jazz' as being a Black American artform. While I value what fasstrack's say's, that Black musicians (in his cross-cultural experience), just want to play the music with whoever has the capacity, I think that is a very different argument to ceding the sovereignty of the Black artform to 'whatever'. I believe I understand your arguments about Europeans, fetishising the exoticism of the music, perhaps in racial terms. I have heard that the French (as an example) still perceive themselves to have been 'better colonialists' than the British. That's why it is good to read opinions and arguments coming from players and producers within the 'American' experience.

"Post-colonial theory" gives him special powers... (nb: I used to piss him off from the left when he was a pre-grad-school right winger. Now I can piss him off from a different corner of the left than his, i.e. the one that still cherishes those corny old European enlightenment values.) Can you define post colonial theory, and how it pertains to 'American' music. The 'whiteness' of the board is pretty self evident, it positively glissens on threads like this and the Peyton one. One of the good things about the internet is it allows people interested in the music to be informed by Black opinion and insight as well. Something I rarely had the privilege to experience growing up away from the centre of the music.