robertoart

I got it for pence and kept it MG I'm glad you and AndyBleaden had this in your collections. Wish this was a whole session. With Grant playing like this with this band There is an interesting discussion going on at the Hoffman Forums about Iron City. My link

I just watched this a few nights ago. Thanks to this thread. Taylor is the only major figure of the sixties avant-garde whose music I have not listened too (a lot). It was a fascinating watch. I was unprepared for how camp he is. It's not something to expect in the context of the earnest Black music 'movement'. It seemed Taylor was connected to a contemporary scene I associate with the city to city 'art festival' culture. Something where I expect to see Phillip Glass, or (heaven forbid), Lou Reed trudging out their latest tired project. I doubt the consumers of these things would have the synapses to sit through a Cecil Taylor recital (honestly). Some might though.

Thanks for your honesty regarding this post. These kinds of opinions are good and thought provoking to read. Especially so from someone whose projects Black musicians/public thinkers have contributed/put their name too. Have you played with Herbie Hancock in the last 30 years

I don't see them in Australia

No. Mel is American.

Maybe more people hadn't heard it than I thought. Glad you like it. Don't post anything weird in the comments section

I am hoping Wolfgag's Vault has this. I sent an email. Hopefully I'll get a nice reply.

I thought Wolfgang's Vault might have had the source tapes too. But as you say, probably not. Its also been a few years since they started offering the Newport archives. The Green and Burrell tracks have been on cd compilations put out by Sonny Lester's LRC label. Also, the Italian 'l Giganti Del Jazz' series these titles originally appeared on, have (as recently as January this year), been rereleased/offered as digital downloads on itunes (and remastered as well ).

It appears the trumpet workshop from the same concert was filmed as well.

If the 'Travis Klein Amazon' post is correct, and he titled the blues on the album 'Iron City', it suggests the title 'Iron City March'? was kept in use by Grant Green for the unissued Verve Session. Placing the 'Iron City' recording to between 'His Majesty King Funk' and the unissued Verve, or thereabouts. So between May 1965 and August 1965. This would change the context from the previous attribution of 'Iron City' to 1967 or later. Grant Green and others Grant Green (g) and others NYC, August 5, 1965 65VK427 Iron City March Verve unissued 65VK428 Angel - 65VK429 Fat Judy - 65VK430 Samba De Orfeu - 65VK431 Chim Chim Cheree - Grant Green and others same personnel NYC, September 1, 1965 65VK458 Things Ain't What They Used To Be Verve unissued 65VK459 Moon Over All - 65VK460 I Can't Stop Loving You - 65VK461 High Heel Sneakers - 65VK462 Blues Train - 65VK463 Sunday, Monday Or Always - 65VK464 Fever - 65VK465 Dream - 65VK466 Uptown -

There is also the Green/Patton/Harold Vick/Hugh Walker Left Bank recording from 66?. I assume that tape must be unlistenable or deteriorated for it not to have been released.

No, I Think they are just referring to Lonnie Smith. There was a George Benson Quartet performance from this concert. ie,; 'connie smith' guitars. There is a killing live version of Ready and Able (from the Benson Cookbook lp) that circulates with the Green and Burrell tunes. As well as an Attila Zoler tune. The 'various other instruments', is probably referring to unidentified musicians who were part of the trumpet and guitar workshops. The original archivists possibly had limited info to reference (or hard to read handwritten notes). What I would like to know is - were the 4(?) tracks that circulated on the Italian boots the only music that was recorded/saved, or do/did the missing tapes contain other performances the bootleggers didn't use. For instance, anyone heard Kenny Burrell's Greensleeves from this concert. Are the missing tapes purely the edited highlights of the concert as it was produced for radio broadcast? Was the original broadcast a combination of the trumpet and guitar workshops or were separate broadcasts devoted to each show? It would be good to know from someone that heard the original broadcasts I remember when a question like this was raised about the 'Burrell, Kessell and Green' video, Magnificent Goldberg was able to confirm that only the one song was broadcast in the UK at the time.

NEWMAN! Or perhaps in this instance NEWMENNICO

Sorry. Wrong Forum. Don't know how to switch. Artist or Discography perhaps?

The Sideman Ornette. No trumpet on these ones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtskM6x5CYc&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLB938BEF67BE9000C

Inspired by finding out new information about the Iron City session, I thought I might contribute something about another recording that was always a mystery to me. In the 1980's. there were a series of Italian 'grey area' releases, that often contained performances that I could not find in the standard discographies. My favourites were three live cuts by Grant Green, Kenny Burrell and George Benson. They appeared as part of a five set guitar anthology box , and were ubiquitous in the shops when I first started exploring Jazz guitar. Thanks to the internet (and google books), I found out they were all part of the same performance from the 1966 Newport Jazz festival on July 4 1966. Part of an afternoon concert broken up into two parts, a Jazz guitar workshop, and a Trumpet workshop. Most featured soloists were backed by the Billy Taylor trio. Except George Benson, who had his great early quartet with Lonnie Smith and Ronnie Cuber. Info from Billboard Magazine July 16 1966 My link I have uploaded the Grant Green and Kenny Burrell audio to Youtube, as they were not represented there. Here are the links; Hope anyone that enjoys Jazz guitar (with deep blues) will enjoy these performances, especially if you have never heard them. Incidentally, here is some more info regarding the source of these tapes. It seems they were part of the Library of Congress collection, but the performances heard here have seemingly disappeared. My link Shelf no. RGA 0104--0105 (RWD 6104 B2, 6105 B2) Title Newport Jazz Festival, July 4, 1966, morning concert, set 1 : Guitar workshop Date Event : 07/04/1966 Publication Status Unpublished Type Music Medium Recording Performer(s) Charlie Byrd, Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, Attila Zoller, George Benson, Connie Smith, guitars; Ross Tompkins, Billy Taylor, George Wein, pianos; Gene Taylor, bass; Billy Kay, Mike Deluca, drums; Lonnie Liston Smith, organ and various other instruments. Recording Note Recorded at the Newport Jazz Festival, Freebody Park, Newport, Rhode Island on Sunday evening, July 4, 1966. The first of two bibliographical records for this concert. Quality Distortion on original tape. Summary Shows different impressions of how instruments are used. Note There are quite a few tapes missing from this year's festival. Work(s) House of the rising sun. Performed by Charlie Byrd, guitarist. Greensleeves. Performed by Kenny Burrell, guitarist. Unidentified blues. Performed by Grant Green, guitarist. Incomplete version; Complete version on tape (RWD 6105 B) which is missing from this collection. Cantalope woman. Performed by Grant Green, guitarist. Complete version on RWD 6105 B which is missing from this collection. Genre(s) Blues (Music) Guitar music (Jazz) Jazz--1961-1970 Subject Guitar music (Jazz) Name(s) Byrd, Charlie, 1925-. (performer) Burrell, Kenny. (performer) Green, Grant. (performer) Group(s) Charlie Byrd Trio. (musical group) Newport Jazz Festival (1966) Collection Voice of America Music Library Collection (Library of Congress) Physical Item RGA 0104--0105 (RWD 6104 B2, 6105 B2). 2 digital sound cassettes, digital (polyester). Recording Laboratory 1995-7. Collection/Donor name: Voice of America Music Library Collection (Library of Congress)

Listening now from the other side of the world. Ain't technology grand. Thanks guys!

Thanks for posting that story fasstrack I enjoyed reading it.

A very Frankfurt-school sentiment. AHH...Crouch and Marsalis are inverse Adornians

Gibson is the vilest of ideologues. The vulgarity of his generational 'theism' to use that term loosely, has been entrenched for most of his life. Probably veiled initially by his drive to be famous and submerge himself in the mediocrity of the 'entertainment' industry. Once he had achieved that, and he was able to go onto 'grander' visions for himself and his agenda, we end up with 'the passion' and his 'inebriated rants'. I think this reflects the level of his critical intelligence and wider humanity. 'The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world" is obviously not the result of some infantile sloganeering, but rather belies some kind of thought out critical thinking. Which to repeat, intellectually corresponds to the history of product he foists onto the world as entertainment. Sorry. I don't think he is a great actor.

The lofts and musician-run labels of the '70s constitutes a golden age, IMO, contrary to the dominant Marsalis-Burns narrative. As a distant listener I would agree with this. I would attach the new sounds and momentum of Ornette's Prime Time to that as well, extending it into the early 80's. I think of it as the end of a Modernist timeline for jazz in a way. Because this music was arguably the last time new sounds were generated from a total Black jazz social situation that still existed outside of the University system (even if the audience was significantly White). Perhaps this music has got kind of retrospectively colonised in a way, because people outside of Black American music were able to later participate and appropriate the sounds, without the Black cultural experience. Especially people from non-schooled music backgrounds. I think of the Ornette-Metheny Song X album as the symbolic end of this Modernist timeline too. Because it represents another ending/beginning -and that being Pat Metheny representing the maturation of the first wave of players that learnt in the University system as much as the inner city club scene. It also coincides with the different choices that the Wynton era were able to make. By looking back and having the luxury of choosing from the already fully formed past-sounds, to move into their future without the influence of that part of the music they wanted to disassociate with. Sorry for the thread cap. Pat Martino is my favourite Italian jazz musician. His story of being a young teenager and being taken into the cradle of Black American music and life is something significant I think. Which is different to a lot of Italian jazz stories, where I get the feeling the music has played out separately from the overall Black social culture. But this opinion is from reading and not experience.

Yeh, that's the way I read it too. It does back up the Amazon posting though. Unfortunately my ears are not as attuned to recognising particular organists, as well as I can identify guitarists and certain saxophonists. I always assumed anyone that knew Larry Young's sound intimately would identify him as the player (or not) automatically.

Yeh, isn't it great to read that. Finally get a context for the recording. Thanks to the Hoffman forum poster! Sad that the album appears (from the Amazon poster) to exist because of Grant's addiction. Although perhaps Grant knew someone was financing sessions there, and exercised his choice to earn a paycheck.

Over at the Hoffman Forums, a poster found this information regarding an Amazon review that solves one part of the mystery of the Iron City session. The Real Story, November 1, 2010 By Travis Klein (Pittsburgh, PA, USA) - See all my reviews (REAL NAME) This review is from: Iron City (Audio CD) The real story of Grant Green's Iron City album is that in 1965 ( I think) he was playing at a club in Pittsburgh called the Hurricane Lounge which was well known as a home for organ trios. A mutual friend came to me and said that Grant needed money to cop and he would be willing to record an album in exchange for the money. I immediately called Gateway Studios in downtown Pittsburgh and scheduled time. When I showed up they were just about done and didn't have a title for the one original. Since we were in Pittsburgh I called it "Iron City." We were the distributors for Prestige Records in Pittsburgh so I called Joe Fields, who was Prestige's sales manager, and offered to sell him the master. Two years later Joe went to work for Buddah Records and they had a new jazz label which they called Cobblestone. Iron City came out as Cobblestone 9002 originally. This album was recorded between his Blue Note early releases and His Majesty King Funk on Verve and I personally never thought it measured up. But 45 years later it holds up pretty darn well. I also found this snipet from the Gene Ludwig site to further confirm. One night during a gig at the Hurricane Ludwig was approached by Travis Klein. Klein was a young entrepreneur who ran a local one-stop with his father. Their distributor branched out into a label, Travis Records. They recorded musicians who traveled through Pittsburgh and released singles by Johnny Lytle and Eddie Chamblee. Ludwig recalls the likes of Grant Green, and Larry Young recording for them as well. “Travis came to see us play and he said ‘Me and my dad have a one-stop right up the street.’ He said ‘If you aren’t signed with anybody we might be able to record and release some stuff.’ So we went up there and struck a deal.”

It will probably be warped too. I bought a sealed copy of The Further Adventures of Jimmy and Wes, when I cracked the seal to play it, the warp was so bad the sound was distorting. Although I think there are ways of looking at the cover that can tell you whether it's an original vee-jay pressing or a boot.