Big Beat Steve

Exceedingly pleased to oblige: "Ben And The Boys" (Jazz Archives JA-35). For further routes, see here (didn't feel like typing it all): Now if that isn't quite a list to choose from...

Hee hee ... good one. You asked for it, so here is my first (fleamarket) Ray Bryant find of about 25 years ago: "Madison Time Pt. I + II" (Philips 45 rpm) feat. (so sez Jepsen) Harry Edison (tp), Urbie Green (tb), Buddy Tate (ts), Tommy Bryant (b), Bill English (dr). Mainstream jazz, anyone?

I am fully aware of what you say and this is fine with me (keeps up the suspense, you know ). I would not even want to wait for "like minds" but would only TRY to give the sequence a push in a "new" direction off certain trodden paths. O.K. since I did not listen my first Al Cohn record yet, here goes: The Progressive Al Cohn (Savoy SJL 126) (like mentioned earlier, I explored new (to me) artists often by starting with their early works in order to "ease" my way in, so to speak) This one has the following sidemen: George Wallington (p), Tommy Potter (b), Tiny Kahn (dr), Nick Travis (tp), Horave Silver and Max Roach. Anybody want to go the bebop route (instead of the "obvious" one) from here?

I ought to have thought that Wendell Marshall (non-leader) thing was fairly obvious. Did anybody notice that the MJQ territory has been charted at least once before in this thread and that we're back again yet among a handful of "obvious" names? And where have been all those Tubbs fans who crowd those Tubbs threads when they had a chance to have a say here? BTW, Dan, if you want to get back on the right track from before that Wendell Marshall "deviation", may I suggest this for further "firsts" starting from the Eddie Costa disc above that included Wendell Marshall? My first Vinnie Burke leader LP (bought along with the Jubilee trio LP but that's been covered by BillF) was: Vinnie Burke All Stars - ABC Paramount 139 also feat. Al Cohn, Joe Puma, Jimmy Raney, Urbie Green, Eddie Costa, Joe Morello And don't nobody tell me there aren't plenty of leaders in this lineup that are worthy of being represented in ANY decent jazz collection. So come on, let's see you aren't all stuck in that hard bop rut, hey? :crazy:

Lucky you! The first Eddie Costa leader date I ever bought is on this one: "Verve(J) MV 2539 "George Wallington Trio & Eddie Costa Trio" The Eddie Costa part also features Rolf Kühn (cl), Dick johnson (as), Ernie Furtado (b), Al Berdini (d).

My first Tubby Hayes leader date purchase: The Couriers of Jazz (Carlton) also feat. Ronnie Scott (ts), Terry Shannon (p), Jeff Clyne (b), Bill Eyden (dr).

Thank you. MY first Dizzy Reece: Progress Report (Jasmine, originally on Decca). feat. Dave Goldberg (ts), Johnny Weed (p), Lennie Bush (b), Phil Seamen (dr), Ronnie Scott (ts), Terry Shannon (p), Vic Feldman (p), Lloyd Thompson (b). :D

Too bad my first exposure to Ed Thigpen (Jutta Hipp at the Hickory House) doesn't qualify according to the stricter rules of the game. At tleast that would get us out of the hard bop rut again a bit ...

Uh oh ... back to well-trodden hard bop territory, then? Nobody around here ever bought any of the numerous Johnny Dankworth leader records? (There are some that would have led straight to Ronnie Scott and therefore to Tubbs, but oh well ... ) O.K., MY first Frank Rosolino record comes from the same stable: Frank Rosolino Quintet on Mode LP 107 also feat. R. Kamuca, V. Guaraldi, M. Budwig, S. Levey (again )

In the late 60s and 70s I would have agreed with you all the way but I am not so sure anymore in today's overly P.C. world (P.C. that outside rap doesn't stop at the gates of the music industry either) anymore. I wonder if you really could get unrestricted airplay for "Keep On Churnin' Till The Butter Comes" or "I Want A Bowlegged Woman" or "Big Fat Mamas Are Back in Style Again" (remember how in a recent pop hit the exceedingly obese female type was oh so tactfully referred to as "BIG girls"? :D) etc. etc. on regular radio formats outside specialist/niche oldies programs or if this would be rejected outright as being "in bad taste". Not to mention the lyrics to "Cocaine Blues" by Billy Hughes (also on King, though it would rather fall into the hillbilly/Western Swing category and therefore not be on this particular King reissue series): "caught my woman triflin' and shot her down ... I heard a man call my baby's name, I opened up the door and I blew out his flame... etc. etc." Nuff said/quoted?

Can you please list EVERY SINGLE PERSON who plays on the album??? No problem, but I am afraid the others do not really have a leader track record to speak of ... Session of 17 Feb. 1948: John Dankworth (cl), Eddie Thompson (p), Bert Howard (b), Vic Feldman (dr) Session of 12 June 1951: Vic Feldman multiple records vibraphoe, piano and drums Session of 19 March 1954: Vic Feldman (vib), Stan Watson (g), Lennie Bush (b), Freddie Manton (dr and Indian drum) Session of 14 July 1954: Vic Feldman (vib and congas), Tony Crombie (p), Lennie Bush (b) See what I mean? P.S. I COULD list my first Johnny Dankworth and Tony Crombie leader LPs ever purchased but I am not sure this is the idea behind this thread in the long run ...

Enjoyable indeed, but recycled in various reissue guises a zillion times. Or to put it another way: High-class R&B for sure but anything but uncharted (or overlooked) territory. So do enjoy it but don't be surprised or put off later on when you try to investigate these artists deeper and find out you end up with DUPLICATING EVERYTHING from that series on other, more comprehensive reissue series.

O.K., MY first Victor Feldman: "The Young Vic - Victor Feldman Studio Recordings Vol. 1" (Esquire 327) 1948-54 small groups featuring above all Johnny Dankworth,Lennie Bush and Tony Crombie. Brit jazz lovers, please go from there.

I agree, and probably we're not that far apart in our opinions. However, on quite a few occasions I have bought this or that LP (or even CD) on the strength of a "killer" record cover (that just struck a chord with me) or, in the case of box sets, for their packaging, booklets, etc. and this despite the fact that in many cases I really had just a basic idea of the contents (in the sense that I was familiar with the basic style but not with what to expect of each track and artist). So as long as I was vaguely aware of the musical style the cover often had a decisive function in my buying decision (and I was rarely disappointed). The funny thing is that in my early collecting days (long before the internet and after the demise of listening booths) this was way more difficult to do because in the 70s nondescript covers with ineptly modernized or totally "out of tune" artwork on reissues with music from the 50s were all over the place whereas the age of "facsimile" reissues of the original LPs or reissue packagings done in a "retro" vein that managed to make the atmosphere of the music come alive just by looking at the cover had not yet arrived to any significant extent. So, again, this kind of "physical" discovery can be valid (and gratifying) too. Being able to listen to online samples is convenient and reassuring and I certainly would not want to discourage taking advantage of that but as long as one is willing to take chances and has an eclectic enough taste (and some basic knowledge of the subject on hand) it is not mandatory at all, IMHO. In fact, I do remember several recent purchases of CDs where I was just slightly underwhelmed by my (previously untried) purchases because they just did not immediately jell with me yet upon repeated listening I did warm up to the contents. I doubt I would have gone to that trouble (of giving the tracks a 2nd or 3rd listening chance at certain intervals) if I had actually listened to online samples before deciding to buy. And in the end it would have been my loss. Strangely enough, in the days when listening in beforehand was more or less impossible this kind of disappointment did not happen any more often either.

I still am trying to figure out if there is any contradiction in these diverse ways of "discovering" and I cannot see to what extent any "physical" discovery mentioned earlier in this discussion really is "purely" physical. Referring to this thread, my purchase of that Shelly Manne LP, for instances, mentioned in post #139 was triggered by the fact that I just HAD to have it after having heard "Grashopper" and "La Mucura" on a jazz radio show. But as my curiosity about (almost) anything Westcoastish at that time had already been aroused sufficiently I would just as likely have bought it after having read about it and its merits. So to me all these different ways of "discovering" are complementary, not contradictory. The "physical" aspect in all this invariably comes in if you want to preserve your item beyond sheer digital mass consumption on some hard drive (which might go bust at the worst moment, you know..., and re-burning CD-R's every couple of years might be forgotten and can become a nuisance anyway). So if you intend to keep and preserve your music for any substantial length of time the "physical" aspect invariably comes in.

My first one by Shelly: Shelly Manne & His Men - The West Coast Sound (Contemporary) also feat. Bob Enevoldsen, Art Pepper, Bob Cooper, Jimmy Giuffre, Marty Paich, Curtis Counce, Joe Maini, Bill Holman, Russ Freeman, Ralph Pena. Now THAT should get us somewhere (else) again!

Don't you think that's because not all people are and think all alike? Isn't that what the essence of our species is all about? Is there a contradiction? Isn't it so that "discovering" can also include the discovery of a track or session you "discover" in a discography, in a book or article on an artist or a musical style that makes you curious enough to go out and track this down for you to buy? The physical "discovery" of the actual recording is just ONE (though essential) aspect of your hunt and search for your own preferred "collectible" items. But don't you think this boils down to the same thing after all? I for one cannot see any basic difference between discovering something on radio or maybe in some written source first and then "discovering" the actual product in a shop (or - today - in an online catalog). Do you actually think seasoned collectors such as us here are really gullible enough to fall for THAT? Sorry but THAT "argument" just doesn't hold in our circles where it in almost every case is a matter of minority niche releases or reissues on labels or release channels usually overlooked altogether by the record COMPANIES. The turntable thing was nice (I experienced the tail end of it in my earliest collecting days too) but it wasn't always decisive to me anyway, though i cannot have been that knolwedgeable of the entire spectrum of music yet. Very often I would have bought the record anyway just because i had a pretty good idea of what to expect within the genre that music was part of, and besides, way back it was a matter of taking the whole LP or leaving it. As long as the gems among the individual tracks outweighed the duds it was a deal. And haven't you ever experienced that it took you some time to warm up to what you initially might have considered to be "duds" (and later would not have wanted to be without)? You may accuse some around here of overromanticizing the discovery and purchase of the physical object in a store. Maybe you are right but OTOH to me it looks like you are overromanticizing the listening booth experience of listening to this or that track over not-so-high fi headphones in quite a rush (unless you knew the shop clerk very well). Again, no contradiction here IMHO. If digitized donwloading is good enough for you then so be it but this isn't the only option. You know there still are SOME where the actual PHYSICAL product (as embodied by the good old vinyl in its sleeve) was an entity that was to be considered as a unit, not just as an expendable packaging of some digitized mujsical product. Which would not rule out the convenience of downloads or CD-R's for those who want the sounds only either.

...... in order to get into a slightly different area I am going to list my first BOBBY JASPAR (from the Hank Jones Savoy MG-12087 lineup above) record ever bought: BOBBY JASPAR REVISITED (Inner City IC 7013) Lineups feat. H. Renaud, J. Gourley, B.Quersin, Fats Sadi, J.-L. Viale, Nat Peck, M. Vander, P. Michelot, A. Migiani, D. Pochonet etc. Anyone care to go up THAT trail? (JAZZ IN PARIS CD series collectors reading this, maybe? :D)

OK, so I'll try (had already considered posting after the Ron Carter disc named earlier) but since we are turning in circles name-wise it's going to be the same record anyhow: My first Hank Jones disc(s) (discS because I bought both at the same moment in the same shop and cannot really recall which one I picked first ) either Bluebird - The Hank Jones Trio with Guests (Savoy MG 12053) or Hank Jones Trio - (Savoy MG-12087) Lots of the usual hard bop suspects in the lineups again ( we are really turning in circles, it seems) but .... (see below)

A bit of both, I guess. BUT - I know very well that in the fields of music that I do collect (the vast majority of which really is off the beaten tracks of the "major" or "common" fields of reissues of collectible music - I am not talking about droooling about the umpteenth remastering of this or that BN or KOB reissue ) there still are artists and recordings that would give me the same thrill of discovering just because they have not been available for so long. You keep learning about the music that is of interest to you and the more you learn and the more in-depth knowledge you acquire the more you discover what there is that you have never heard. And the same goes for other fields of collecting. Even if you are not a completist. Neither did I experience that a great deal but occasionally the frown (or knowing smile) upon the sales counter clerks' face as he entered the totals of my "oddball" (by hit parade standards) vinyls was a bit of fun. This would be true if you were to buy mostly off-the-shelf new items or "current" "name" recordings that are the big and predictable sellers (either pop hit parade fare where the companies want you to crave for the "next" release or "major" and "safe" reissues such as the examples named above). But odd niche market music on collectors' labels that the record stores DID carry DESPITE their (extreme) niche market status? I'd rather rate the experience of shopping around for that kind of (new) goods on the same level like searching secondhand bins at garage sales or fleamarkets for any sort of collectible fleamarket items. Which is why - in my fields of collecting - I've hardly ever made a conscious distinction between buying new or secondhand.

Thank you! That would have been my first Red mitchell leader date purchase too (but i did not and could not reply to myself). So here is my follow-up: My first Lorraine Geller leader LP bought was "The Gellers" (EmArcy MG 36024) (feat. Lorraine and Herb Geller, Red Mitchell and Mel Lewis) (Wonder how it is going to be before we will be back in Thad Jones territory? :D)

Exactly my experience and my feelings from that period (I started buying and actually collecting records in 1975 at age 15). During that 1975-85 period (and for a time thereafter) we had at least five (sometimes seven or eight) excellent and - among each other - well-stocked record shops downtown that always carried interesting items in the collectors' departments (jazz, blues, rockabilly, 60s beat, etc.) and you indeed had to snap up the items very fast if you saw something because they might never turn up again afterwards. I remember two cases where it actually took me 15 and 20 years, respectively, in those pre-www and pre-ebay days to finally get a copy of a record I had postponed buying when I saw it in the shop back then (and by the time I had made up my mind it was gone, which I regretted ever after). Nowadays only one decently stocked (secondhand) record store is left and the CD selections in other chain stores are nothing much to write home about. So while I am grateful for the new opportunities that the internet has opened up in the past 10+ years and take huge advantage of it, the thrill of making discoveries (that make a lasting impression on you) just isn't there anymore if everything is available that easily (even though lots go OOP too fast or are unre-reissued) and often only a mouse click away. Rummaging through lots and lots of vinyl bins in search of an item of interest just isn't the same like keeping your fingers crossed to see if that Amazon Marketplace seller will live up to his promise of having this or that CD available. Sometimes I wonder about the availability of the music we have come to take for granted these days. If everything is there to to be bought, do you listen just as intensely to EVERYTHING you can (and do) buy (as opposed to back then when what you found often really was a FIND)? Yet I am happy, of course, to combine the best of both worlds, i.e. the pleasure of filling gaps of long-sought recordings AND the convenience of being able to fill other gaps much more easily (as long as funds permit) in the CD era, though it often becomes a bit too predictable and assembly line-like. Somehow, as long as you DO find things, searching for items for your collection makes up half of the fun of actually buying them. Which maybe is one of the reasons why I never really felt a desire to get into the CHRONOLOGICAL CLASSICS series wholesale (and used it only to fill a few glaring gaps) and would NEVER have thought of dumping my vinyl of the same recordings in favor of that series - even if that meant that some gaps remained.

OK, now I will try to take this back a bit further in history: MY first Jimmy Rowles leader date ever purchased was this: "Let's Get Acquainted with Jazz (For People Who Hate Jazz)" on Tampa TP-8 (1957) also feat. Red Mitchell, Larry Bunker, Pete Candoli, Harold Land, Mel Lewis, Barney Kessel Lots of "first leader date" potential there among the sidemen of that session ...

More oddities (by the standards of THIS forum ): One that might make Brownie smile: Back in more familiar teritory: Would this series count too?

Here are a few oddities (underground collectors' releases from the early 90s) none of you are likely to have ever seen before: