Big Beat Steve

Well, the "Six" sure look "Double" here: As for how the name came about, this ad from the June, 1960 copy of JAZZ MAGAZINE may give a clue: "6 voices x 2 = one jazz group" An article on jazz vocals in the same issue of the mag implies that this calculation has to do with the voicings of the individual vocalists. The article says something like this: "The Double Six have an advantage over Lambert Hendricks and Ross in being twice as numerous so they have a wider scope of double voicings... Where a member of Lambert Hendricks and Ross has to sing four parts, a Double Six sings only two parts." I.e. Two times six = Double Six. But no doubt Brownie will be able to pin this down more accurately.

Not so sure about the release dates of the LPs. No. 3 (Whiteman) - the lowest on hits list that I have - has a production (P) date of 1979 on the cover, No. 72 (T. Dorsey) - the highest No. I have - has a production (P) date of 1987. Which ties in with the 1983 catalog that Brownie mentions.

Jazz Tribune #3 Paul Whiteman 'Jazz à la King' (1920-1936) Hope this pic helps you for the cover of #3: Can try to get a crisper pic if needed. As for #66, see here (taken from a listing on the inside cover of #72): Hope this helps.

They (i.e. the "Tribune" CDs) were one of those cases that really left me wondering if collectors really felt like they'd dump (or were expected to dump) their vinyl THAT fast. I mean, the "Tribune" LPs had hardly disappeared from the FRONT rows of the jazz corners of the record stores (but definitely still were around for those who were prepared to look) when the first CDs of that very series were already all over the place. O.K. - end of O.T. ramblings

Will check the LPs from that series that I have (far from exhaustive but quite a few) tonight to see if the sleeves contain listings of the entire series as released up to that time. BTW, is that you?? http://rateyourmusic.com/list/almofada/jazz_tribune__rca_

Reminds me of the stuff that used to be gathering dust and cobwebs upstairs in the overhead racks at Mole Jazz. I dunno ... I picked quite a few interesting Basie, Kenton and other LPs there to fill some gaps in my collection in rather a targeted manner so every now and then I did my best to brush off the cobwebs . But I think I know what you mean. And no doubt this collection gave its owner lots of listening pleasure. But if you are of the kind where with many artists that have maybe 10 or 20 LPs or merit you are content with 2 or 3 or 4 (which may not even be among the most essential or sought after ones) because you just happened to like those for very personal and individual reasons then it is going to be hard trying to find somebody who, of all records, is just DYING to fill his own collection by adding these. As for "idiosyncratically" compiled collections, I suppose most of us collectors are of that kind. Referring to the above Firehouse Five vs Ellington comparison, I for one make no excuses for the fact that my Louis Jordan LPs outnumber my Coltrane discs by a factor of about 10 or so, and I do have more Goerge Wallington and Claude Williamson discs than I have discs by Monk, but OTOH if broken down in smaller stylistic lots the picture would be more even and I would not expect to see my discs disappear in ONE go anyway after I am no longer around.

Yeah, and no Trane and no Electric Miles either. How could he - ever?? And claim this is a JAZZ collection?? In short, you kiddin', right? Seriously, this would be quite interesting for someone who is deeply into trad-style jazz or more trad-oriented swing or "Mainstream". Problem IMHO - it is a VERY personal collection based not only on tastes but apparently also on whims of what one came across at a given moment. I.e. a quick glance didn't reveal too many artists where this collector seems to have made a deliberate effort at rounding up something like a COMPREHENSEIVE array of discs on a particular artist - in the sense that many collectors who, even if they are not completists, discover one artist and then work themselves continuoiusly through that artist's records. A lot of the records that many of the artists here seem to be represented by seem to be fairly spotty, just as if some record caught the buyer's fancy so he bought it and that was that (maybe many purchases made at live gigs? Who knows?) Quite a few artists are probably represented by what one would consider "non-essential" recordings. They may be very nice in their own right but would they be first choice for somebody who'd want to get started with a particular artist? OTOH that "Best of" type of albums in that list would probably be fine for starters but once these "starters" explore the ground more thoroughly they would probably outgrow that kind of albums really fast. Still very nice all in all but the owner would need a buyer who REALLY is deeply into this and STILL has not a comprehensive collection himself. Otherwise it really would be a shot in the dark if there would be anybody out there who'd be able to fill MANY gaps with that collection. A rare beast, that kind of potential buyer ... And honestly, I think to most of today's collectors those cassettes and tapes unfortunately are largely deadweight. Unless one would have the equipment and be prepared to transfer them all to CD-R. It would be different if there were huge amounts of otherwise undocumented live recordings of "key" artists made privately by that collector back in the day. But are there?

Sorry, the link doesn't seem to work (leads to some generic "http" site). Maybe a link spelt out instead? P.S. Found the text now on your blog. Any chance this will appear on CD somewhere sometime in the future?

To stop anyone else having it? It's very good, and odd it hasn't had a life on CD outside the Mosaic. No, to pass them on to where they apparently would be wanted (if only one knew everybody's wants ). Because where these records sat and may not have been sold off fast I figure they eventually ended up in an even larger clearout bin where they got totally inundated in a huge mass of pop/MOR/light classics clearout fare.

If I'd known that Clickin' With Clax album is still clicking that much with people here I ought to have picked up those 2 or 3 dirt cheap vinyl copies that turned up in the secondhand clearout bins at a local record store here those past 2 years or so. Too bad ...

Nice article, and don't we all sympathise with some of the problems and odd experiences mentioned? But talking about 400 CDs and all of THIRTY-FIVE LPs (or even 150 LPs)? Space must really be at an extreme premium when that kind of figure warrants mentioning at all. (Yes, hopefully I'll NEVER have to move house. )

I wouldn't have dared to go as far as you did but you do have a point ... As for the "70s and 80s" dates that you quoted in referring to my post, clearly the contributors to that All Music Guide reference book referred primarily to CDs but also to LPs, and very often so, especially in those cases where the vinyl reissue/compilation made much more sense than the (incomplete) CD reissue or where no CD reissue had been released yet (even if this meant they had to refer to an OOP vinyl release). Of course, like you said, a review of an artist's work on the basis of the original recordings (with a listing of relatively accessible reissues of these recordings added) would indeed make sense. But it would be a monumental task in compiling such listings, and like I said, I would not have ventured that far out. However, I'd be a bit wary of record guides going into individual (download) tracks for the artists from the LP/CD era because you do not even have to look into the whole "concept album" thing to realize in many cases the contents of the albums really are bodies of work that form a unit that ought to remain together and be listened to as a unit.

Maybe in the case of both of you that's because you basically had already "opened up" towards other artists and styles of jazz, i.e. your curiosity had been aroused enough to become interested in exploring more, much more. Budding collectors, if you want ... However, I am under the impression that this group is a minority among those who are "non-collectors". But to get back to where this part of the discussion started: Again - what's wrong with including clearly OOP items in any book that provides a guide of recorded music? Considering the speed with which releases are deleted again, ANY book is bound to become at least partially obsolete between the end of writing and the time it goes on sale anyway. And does one really have to be a diehard, frenzied, all-out collector in order NOT to despair about the fact that a recommended recording has gone OOP and needs more, longer and harder searching in order to track down a copy? What would be the alternative? Telling people "This record is OOP so you don't need to listen to it" (though in fact it may be a major achievement in the recording career of that artist) Would that make sense? I don't think so, especially considering how often reissues of music from those eras where the Public Domain aspect does not come into play yet are just blocked because the owners of the rights balk at reissuing the music or just plain don't care. Which leads to grotesque situation where one artist's music on one label (of minor importance) may be easily available where his music recorded originally on another label (that may have vielded more important music but just does not have a decent reissue policy) is really tough to get by. So IMHO those guides that look a bit beyond what is currently in print and easily available at any given point of time are right in doing so. And in this context I found the "All Music Guide" book (2nd ed. IIRC) that I bought in the late 90s really spot-on in their coverage of the subject. Their reviews often referred to items being "now hard to find" etc. as the authors clearly covered releases that had hit the market since, say, the late 70s or early 80s (and sometimes had vanished by the late 90s of course). But still they gave a far better overview of what one ought to try to track down than any list of items that may be currently available (but OOP tomorrow anyway) could ever do.

True, but how many of those with just a passing, fleeting interest in jazz who'd just enjoy listening to some jazz here and there would have bought the previous, much more comprehensive issues of the Penguin Guide? Of course the new direction that this guide now seems to be taking would be much more suited to those non-collectors (or to budding collectors).

Strange that. One of the common criticisms of Penguin used to be the way it limited itself to albums that were currently in print or easily available in the UK. Srange indeed. I'd even go so far as to say that ANY record buying guide that limits itself strictly to what is EASILY and off the (internet or real) shelf available everywhere at the time of going to press while items that by ANY yardstick are part of the "major opus" of an artist are omitted just because they happen to be OOP is SERIOUSLY flawed and rather worthless IMHO. Why? Firstly, this way of doing things is bound to be obsolete in more than one detail by the time the printed book hits the bookstalls because items are being deleted all the time. Secondly, because you cannot build a real appreciation of any artist's music on what is MOMENTARILY available (if what is momentarily available is full of gaps) and I do assume that ANY seasoned collector will not be deterred THAT easily by keywords such as "Deleted" or "OOP" - least of all in this digital and internet age. I'd understand all those moans and groans about this or that being OOP if it was an item that has NEVER been reissued for the past 40 or 50 or more years but if it's been around in any guise in the past 20 to 25 years then all this only ought to spur any collector into action. Sure that means work and sometimes long-winded searching but isn't this what motivates the collector no end?

I agree with you about that John Fordham book. Bought it in the mid-90s in London and haven't regretted it, especially since its price was surpruisingly low. In the same (coffee-table and good period photo/record cover ilustration coverage) vein and roughly at the same time I also bought "A Century of Jazz" by Roy Carr and "The World of Jazz" by Jim Godbolt as IMHO they also offered a huge lot (on the periods of jazz I am most interested in) for their price tag - and still do. I must have seen the Stan Britt/Brian Case book (as well as the Virgin Encyclopedia of Jazz) at around the same time too and really cannot recall why I did not pick those up. As I already owned the Keepnews/Grauer Pictorial History of Jazz, Leonard Feather's Encyclopedia of Jazz, "Black Beauty White Heat" and a host of others (including jazz encyclopedias with biographical info), including several editions of J.E. Berendt's Jazz Book, maybe they did not seem to offer enough ESSENTIAL information on the c. pre-1965 period of jazz I was most interested in to warrant the (relatively higher) purchase price. Maybe I was wrong, but I guess in the present internet days that could be remedied even for OOP items if I'd wanted to. BTW, does anybody know if those "Third Ear" Listening Companions (jazz record guides) published by Miller Freeman Books in the 90s ever progressed beyond the "Swing" and "Bebop" tomes into more modern jazz styles except for the "Afro-Cuban Jazz" volume? A "forthcoming" West Coast jazz book was mentioned here and there but otherwise no trace of it.

It would be interesting to know who that exactly was. If the documentary was done that long ago almost all of the eleven German players from the 54 finals would still have been alive. But usually it was only 2 or 3 of the "usual suspects" who got interviewed in the media (until the number of survivors diminished dramatically). At any rate that might help to put things into perspective since strangely enough, to the best of my knowledge no mention was made of this in those NUMEROUS media reports, writeups, publications etc. when all that hullaballoo about the 50th anniversary of the '54 finals came around in 2004. With the sports media being what they are I think it's unlikely they would have managed to hide THAT from media coverage at that time.

Ha, I wonder what eventually will become of all this. That story of alleged doping of the German '54 team is about as old as Old Man Moe's beard and has been refuted (or proved wrong) before. One aspect of this being that a sports such as football with extremely alternating demands on the individual players does not really suit itself to "classic" doping substances - as opposed to endurance sports like in athletics, cycling etc. where you are out to go straight ahead as fast and/or as long-lasting as you can. But who knows ... what with the large-scale doping having gone on in Eastern Bloc sports since Heaven knows when, it might eventually boil down to a case of "My dope is better than your dope"? (BTW, no sour grapes please, Brownie, just beause Pibarot's men and Kopa's buddies fared so dismally in the '54 tournament? ;))

Same here. People like her need to be interviewed at length so their recollections, background knowledge, etc. can be recorded for posterity. After all, what's that (African) saying again? "An elder who dies is like a library that burns down."

None of the barriers of era, pastness, racism, lack of technological means of reproduction, etc. that apply in the cases of the "old legendary actors who barnstormed before the days of film, the great Negro League baseball players, the great old minstrel-age entertainers whose work has essentially been lost" seem to me to apply to Schildkraut, other than that what he does survive to some degree on third-party testimony. As for him being a victim of external and/or internalized Crow Jim attitudes -- Konitz? Art Pepper? No need to go back to the minstrel era etc. Just take any number of JAZZ "musicians' musicians" from the 20s or generally those 20s jazz musicians who (according to testimonials by those who heard them play) were never adequately captured on record (because the recordings were influenced to a MUCH higher degree by conservative record company/A&R men tastes) and who really came into their own live on stage (none of which was preserved for posterity). There must have been MANY like that ...

Hello to all jazz bibliophiles Here comes a plea to those who own the above book. I am currently working my way through this (IMHO) highly informative and fascinating book but due to its sheer volume this does take its time. So it is only now that I discover that my copy (bought secondhand via the web quite a while ago) has a printing/binding error which means that pages 459 to 490 are missing (a number of pages up to page 458 are duplicated instead). Is there any owner of this book out there who'd be able and willing to provide me with scans of those pages 459 to 490 (or with photocopies, which might be a feasible and affordable option if a European forum member happens to own this book)? Any help would be appreciated and expenses will be reimbursed, of course.

Just a gimmick for the photographer, I think. Actually I wonder if that trombonist is Tadd Dameron at all. The pic isn't very clear but somehow his face looks a bit lean compared to other known pictures of Tadd from that period.

No, but I'd sure like to hear other opinions too as this is a book that would figure high on my shopping list.

The liner notes of the Jazztone LP (reprinted on the FS reissue) say indeed the recording was made in Webster Hall.

Two, in fact: "Claude Williamson" (BLP-59) and "Round Midnight" (BLP-69).