Big Beat Steve

Ha, soulmate!! OT and just for you: You know that one (passed on to me by an engineer, but still ...)? What's it that dogs and engineers have in common? They both can't express themselves. Yowza! Now back to the topic.

Oh, I like that one! MG Me too! Great and fitting name. There is a shop in Frankfurt (Germany) that used to specialize in punk etc. underground records and goes by the name of SICK WRECKORDS It has since expanded to all sorts of subculture music, including R&B and rockabilly, but still quite a fitting name. And would anbody venture a guess as to who was the favorite artist of that Munich jazz record shop called BIRD'S NEST RECORDS?

Last time I checked, that was how life in general works... I know but I also seem to remember there was a time (still is, upon the most recent checkup) where the WWW platforms such as forums and discussion groups were hailed as THE huge outlet for direct democracy, for direct exchange, for giving people a voice as a way of direct communication and interchange that specificyllly undermined the tendency of silencing voices considered obstinate or undesirable by the powers-that-be in more more conventional communication channels etc. etc. etc. But boasting about installing "commonwealth" forums out of purely altruistic motivations that were only supposed to serve the general dialogue of those who share a common interest/hobby - where upon scrutiny (which isn't even that much closer) you realize it's all about commercial or personal interests and trying to channel and streamline those who still won't fit the pattern, then ... ho hum ... Not that I was really suprised about the outcome of what I described above. Long before I was actually ousted I realized it was actually only a matter of time but what really galled (and alarmed) me was how many others in the forum complacently let themselves be lulled in and dragged along by a nose ring.

Here is another one who's been kicked off a forum before. Though a forum on a totally different hobby/interest, not music-related at all. In a nutshell, the key problem with that forum was/is that it is run by a bunch of people who have vested commercial interests in that particular hobby (which has a lot of sellers and service providers) though they kept repating their commercial acitvities and the forum were strictly separate. At one point the clash of interests culminated between their commercial interests and certain general trends and evolutions as their practices in the long run would have been to the detriment of the individual consumer/collector as he might have been exposed to a near-monopoly situation (where again the originators of that forum would have had a hand in). On several occasions I objected both to the forced silencing of those who openly spoke out against such practices and also queried any conflicts of interest on the forum bosses (conflicts of interest that were manifest to those who were willing to see). Upon being admonished in a private e-mail by one of the bigwigs that I was to refrain from questioning the appropriateness of the ousting of said forum members I made it clear in no uncertain terms that I still vehemently disapproved of their ousting. And bang - my account was blocked. And I was one of a lot of forumists who shared the same fate. By now that forum is reduced to a pretty dreary affair as a lot of others quit on their own. What you state, Allen, is typical for a lot of internet forums, I am afraid. Get in the way of the bigwigs and their doings and you'are out. Too many forums are considered good and appreciated only as long as they serve the purposes of those who originate them (i.e. by drawing off the constructive input of the forum members) but as soon as it becomes clear that the main forte of any forum, i.e. providing a platform for people to speak their minds publicly on controversial matters as well as on matters of common interest where on a one-to-one basis they would be all too easy to be silenced if they go against the grain of the bigwigs then out the window goes the openness if it becomes blatantly clear that that openness challenges the commercial or personal interests of those who set up the forum in the first place. I therefore really appreciate the decent way this O forum is handled in a way that is not overbearing in the way it is all too often the case elsewhere.

@EKE BBB: You mentioned earlier a chapter from this book has been published in the IAJRC journal. Was this an unabridged, unchanged excerpt of the book? (I assume you have seen the entire book too) If it was in fact reprinted more or less verbatim then I'd say what's good enough for the IAJRC can't be that bad.

First of all, you are wrong. Not counting shipping, it its 40 euros for the book itself, not 55. Secondly, given that reasoning, most book publications in such highly specialized fields (epsecially in ours) would be pointless and overpriced and a ripoff. I don't feel that way because it always is a tradeoff of what you get for your money, i.e. how much went into it. And I am willing to reverse my advance judgment and trust if (IF!!!) upon receipt of the book the contents were sloppily thrown together and the lauding seen here and on the website are way over the top. But I doubt I'll have to. But I guess in the end we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. BTW, yes - I did have to swallow deep when I first saw the price tag of the Fats Navarro bio. And by comparison with what that Noone bio seems to offer in the way of illustrations alone (which no doubt account for a good deal of the production cost), the Fats bio falls way short. And yet no one (don't remember if you intervened in the debate) seemed to have complained about the price when it was discussed here at length. If it therefore is a matter of one book being considered more essential than another then why reduce this aspect to a question of price? THAT is just matter of personal preferences and of how much one si willing to shell out for any given product but that definitely is not a question of a price being OBJECTIVELy too high, so why bother?

MY order went out at noon. Hope I won't be too late for this limited run. In what way? In view of the fact that this book is virtually published PRIVATELY without any huge publisher's backing behind it, I find this price rather decent. And how would you rate the price of the the entire "Studies In Jazz" U.S. publications (very likely run by a better funded publishing organisation and with more resources to offset or cross-fund publishing costs) by comparison then? As for shipping, do you have any idea of what many US sellers charge for overseas shipping of books that do not happen to fit the Flat Rate Priority envelopes? So things really aren't worse than the other way round. In fact I have a hunch you overseas buyers are being subsidized by the publishers by upmarking rates for European customers on this anyway. 11.50 euros just for Economy shipping from France to neighboring Germany is pretty hefty - would be so even for that (in international shipping) useless "Colissimo" shipping which does not even apply here as this is an "Economy" rate only. Compared to that 21 euros for worldwide priority isn't that bad. I don't really mind in this particular case as to me the overall final price is what counts (and to a point I can even understand those publishers' point if they picture a huge share of their takers as being from overseas).

So you did take up the matter with him and set him straight? Did he dare to admit his fallacy?

Not unlikely one bit. This expatriate's presence at Kaempfert's sessions was well known, at least over here, and he was interviewed extensively on his envolvement in a lengthy Kaempfert TV documentation done a few years ago and recently aired once again on German TV. The Youtube stills and clips actually come from that documentation. Nothing unusual as such anyway IMO. I guess the list of major jazz musicians making relatively good bread (ya gotta eat, you know) by participating in pop, easy listening, MOR, Muzak (you name it) studio orchestras during the 40s, 50s and 60s would be as long as anybody's arm without being exhaustive.

This will probably focus on editing and proofreading errors of the original author's work but anyway ... Not long ago I had the (mis)fortune to read the GERMAN translation of the biography of Kenny Clarke by Mike Hennessey (and published in German in 2004 by Hannibal). The bio itself is quite sympathetic but suffers a lot in the German version if it is read by somebody who does speak English as well (which happens to be my case and really struck a sour note as very often the German stuck really all too close to Englisjh idioms, makign it often sound awkward) and is also passably conversant with the history of jazz (as should be expected from any buyer of such a book). I did not bother highlighting the errors so nothing to share right now (might update this post if I find some nuggets, though). The book did remain readable if you made concessions or were fatalistic about it but the instances where clearly the woman who translated it was totally unfamiliar with the finer points of either Kenny Clarke's life or jazz history at large were all to evident. A real pity, not the first such case and one more reason why I hardly ever can bring myself anymore to buying German translations of music books originally published in English, even if they are available dirt cheap at Zweitausendeins. What pisses me off, though, is that proofreading of the translation evidently was done so sloppily.

Thanks for the liner notes, MG. Ground well-covered by the BF box (and previous Krazy Kat vinyl) but nice to have for comparison. But are you sure about the Duke label? I understand they were from Houston. And Martin Hawkins does not list any Duke label in his two works.

Just got myself the 8-CD box "A Shot In The Dark - Nashville Jumps /Blues and Rhythm on Nashville's Independent Labels 1945-55" on Bear Family. The HUGE book (not booklet, really....) has lots of info on Randy Wood's Record Shop and later Dot venture. Also check out this (got my copy yesterday too): http://www.amazon.com/Shot-Dark-Records-Na...4803&sr=8-1 Same title, same author as in the case of the Bear Family box set book but in fact not that much duplication so a great addition, not only for the info on Randy's Shop (and Show) but also on the music scene at large. Judging by both books, Tennesseeans of those times would also have been able to pick up the R&B show on WLAC by DJ Gene Nobles (who had at least two tribute songs dedicated to him so he must have been sumpin'). Just music-wise, must have been a fascinating moment in history when Nashville still was well away from overproduced mainstream. Edit: Ha, MG beat me to it. Seems like you got farther ahead in reading "Record Makers and Breakers" than I did yet. Will go and spin the Gene Nobles tribute "Nobles Suffle" by Jimmy Milner now.

That's close to 60 dollars per EACH single CD/LP! This dude is sick!!

I have a VSOP facsimile reissue of that Wig Tampa TP-33 and also seem to remember (discography isn't on hand right now) that this one actually was a rehash INDEED. IIRC its contents match those of "Wiggin With Wig" on the DIG label owned by Johnny Otis. And apparently the DIG release is the original.

Hasn't that been a trend that's been evolving for MANY decades? They just don't come as sharp as in their 40s or 50s stage attire or even band uniforms'n all any more. But of course, assuming a vast majority or those who perform live today are just "pick-up" ensembles and not working bands that have been playing together for a long time it's easy to see why they should not feel compelled - as a very minimum - to wear, say, shirts and trousers of the same colors to provide a visual sense of unity and enhance stage presence. From all I've seen either live or on TV concert airings, I agree with you about the sometimes scruffy aspect. T-shirts and raggedy jeans are quite OK for 20+ year old rock etc. musicians but on some middle-aged to decidedly aged persons those slobbery T-shirts or sweatshirts with contrivedly youngish imprints on them (and bulging over long-acquired beer bellies) combined with trousers looking like they've been pulled out of last week's charity drive do not look all that impressive. And shoes removed for comfort are a bit bizarre when witnessed live on stage too. Not everyone can make light-hearted fun of habits like this the way Little Willie Littlefield could. There are moments when you really wish you'd catch that live broadcast on radio and not on TV. But again, that's a trend that seems to have been evolving for a long, long time so I am not particularly surprised and don't really care that much. It's just the way it is but it's a pity sometimes.

Details of what Dan Morgenstern found in need of correction in Ross Russell's KC book would be welcome indeed as they can only be beneficial to the reader, so ... please ...

Why was I half expecting an exchange like this?

Yes, having gradually become aware of the grain of salt that RR's Bird bio needs to be taken with, I had my apprehensions too but as far as I can judge he does not go that overboard in the way he captures the essence of the bands he describes. At any rate I felt he did manage to make the music come alive in his lines. And his book and Pearson's are different enough in their approches so they do not really duplicate each other IMO.

That would be this one ... http://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/catal...0252013362.html Actually I was thinking of that one as another example of how to make oral histories work. I read this book with great interest in the 90s (time to dig it out again) and a couple of years later got a secondhand copy of Ross Russell's book on Kansas City jazz too (to finally make up for the fact that I had missed out on it in the late 70s). I find both books complement each other well as their appraches are quite different. But how would you - and others - make the comparison?

Well, I feel I have only touched the tip of the icebeg. Of the biographies of lesser known musicians you mention, I feel the one on Danny Barker would be #1 for me right now - but who knows ... I've read "Honkers & Shouters" as well as John Broven's "Rhythm & Blues" too and agree with your comments (BTW, if you liked the subject of John Broven's book, also check out "I Hear You Knocking" by Jeff Hannusch aka Almost Slim). As for "Central Avenue Sounds", I bought this a couple of months ago and had high hopes for this but (sorry to say) put it aside about halfway through - for the time being at least. The book certainly is not bad but IMO the basic idea of presenting history by way of oral narratives works far better in "Hear Me Talking To Ya" and also in Ira Gitler's "Swing To Bop". IMHO "Central Avenue Sounds" could have benefited from a slightly different selection of the interviewees that made it into print (I understand there is a HUGE LOT more oral history on tape in the archives - there is another thread herre where this is detailed). E.g. interviewing all three Woodman brothers who essentially repeat the same thing from only slightly different angles is a bit wearying. The way it is the reader really has to search for the actual info on Central Avenue here and there and to and fro throughout the book and is all is a bit overly loose. Another aspect is that this book probably was written WAY too late. It ought to have been written in the 70s (or 80s at the latest) when a lot more Central Avenue "survivors" still were around to provide THEIR oral input. But well ... I can always get back to that book again later (and definitely will).

Yes I forgot that one. It is a VERY good read indeed. And if you read that and want to SEE what you are reading about in there, try to get hold of his "Scrapbook of Jazz" which will give you the picture (literally) spotted liberally with typically Condonish captions. BTW, I did not find George T. Simon's "The Big Bands" that dull at all. it really needs to be taken and used as a work of REFERENCE on the individual bands and band leaders, not a sequence of short biographies in the strictest sense of the word.

I'm no authority on which biographies would be most worthwhile OVERALL as I've touched only on a small percentage of what is out there (dictated by my own musical preferences). Unless you have a LOT of time you cannot read all that are out there and that are worth reading anyway. Not by a long shot. I haven't read the Art Pepper and Hampton Hawes autobiographies yet (they will follow eventually) but I guess I can live without some that others would consider essential. IMO it also depends above all on which musicians are among your jazz listening favorites. If the musician is one you take a particular interest in and if the bio is any good then you will devour it anyway. OTOH, no matter how great a bio is, if the musician featured in that bio is one that is not in your main center of interest you will probably not get THAT much out of it. Another criterion would be those musicians that you consider "kingpins" of their era and musical style (i.e. reading about their lives will also tell you a lot about that particular era or style of jazz etc.). It is in this latter sense, for example, that I have appreciated the bio on Big Jay McNeely a lot as a source of info on early post-war R&B, or the bios on Milton Brown and Bob Wills as providing lots of info on Western Swing. Generally speaking, to name just two examples, the autobio by Terry Gibbs ("Good Vibes") is definitely one to recommend. It is not only hilarious in places (Terry Gibbs is a great storyteller) but also captures the atmosphere of those times very well. In a totally different (more scholarly) sense, the Dick Twardzik bio ("Bouncing with Bartok") also is one I more or less read from start to finish in one go (though there are some who do not seem to agree with some of the author's conclusions about this or that detail).

Thanks for the info. Will have to investigate that. I really enjoyed the compilation of his 40s tracks on SeaBreeze so this one sounds good.

That's right. The BONDE system is familiar but I've never seen any CD drawers in the shops around here either.

If you check out the recent (voluminous) threads about the bios of Fats Navarro and Thelonious Monk you will see that not any but MANY of those around here read jazz musician bios. My own copy of the Fats Navarro bio arrived yesterday, and I've absorbed my bit of bios of jazz and jazz-related artists through the years mself. Starting out with Ross Russell's Charlie Parker bio in my very young collecting days, and followed later on by the autobios of Count Basie, Charlie Barnet and Terry Gibbs, plus bios on Woody Herman, Dexter Gordon, another one on Bird, then Lester Young, Tommy Dorsey, Kenny Clarke, Hal Singer, Dick Twardzik, Louis Jordan, plus others on the fringe of jazz such as Muddy Waters, Tommy Johnson, Charley Patton, Bob Wills, Pee Wee King, Milton Brown, Big Jay McNeely, Wynonie Haris, etc. And no doubt others will follow in due course. But one word of caution (though maybe I'm stating the obvious): Don't reduce your "learning" about jazz to jazzmen biographies. Books on specific aspects of jazz (such as those on Kansas City Jazz, West Coast Jazz, 52nd Street, Bebop, or Ira Gitler's "Swing to Bop", "Jazz Away From Home" about jazz expatriates, etc.) will give you FAR more about the broader picture. Artist bios IMHO are more the icing on the cake. BTW, what's that book by Mike Zwerin you are referring to?