Big Beat Steve

Not a mixed bag at all IMHO but a nice example of early "crossover" (or "jazz-rock" if you are willing to lump Country in with rock) and, at any rate, a glimpse of what Western Swing could have become if it had continued to really evolve into the 60s. Chet Atkins could swing his butt off too when he felt like it. I like both albums a lot, and it's a real tragedy Hank Garland suffered that severe car accident and was unable to continue recording. (Incidentally, the album cover of Hank Garland's solo album shown earlier in this thread must be that of a fairly recent reissue. This album is actually called "Jazz Winds From A New Direction - Introducing the Modern Guitar of Hank Garland" and will be listed as such in discographies.)

FWIW, over here in Germany the "list price" for 12in LPs most often was 17 or 19 "Deutschmarks"(DM) in the very early 60s. Prices seem to have been rather more uniform and in line with catalog "list prices" in many shops (I have quite a few late 50s/early 60s LPs still with their 19 DM price pencil-written in a corner of the sleeve or indicated on a price tag) and special offers or downmarked prices were comparatively rarer than from, say, the mid-70s when I started buying LPs. Typical EP prices were 7,50 DM in the early 60s. And this at a time when the hourly wages of a skilled worker were about 3 DM! Little wonder so many period "Eurojazz" LPs are that rare.

Well, Brownie, at the time 98 DM (close to 350 FF) apeared like a lot of money to me for a book that "thin". But of course once you flipped the book open to have a closer look you were smitten by the overall presentation so I just had to have it. Thanks for that link, BTW. Quite a few of the photos shown there were not included in the Jazz In LA book.

Yes - R.I.P. His "Jazz In L.A." book, though frighteningly expensive when new, is one I never regretted shelling out for. Yet no matter what pics he may have taken of Chet Baker and other jazz celebrities, I'd venture a guess his most famous legacy to posterity is that series of concert shots of Big Jay McNeely that yielded that famous stage close-up of Big Jay blowing away lying on his back and working the (WHITE!) teen-aged audience into sheer frenzy. A picture that not only immmortalized the essence of the Honkin' tenor sax but also the transition from R&B to Rock'n'Roll. I'd venture to say all those jazz celeb pictures, no matter how fine they may be from an artistic point of view, pale by comparison because others such as Claxton, Leonard, etc. often had the same artists in their focus too. BTW, no doubt a great many who never heard of Bob Willoughby's name may have seen at least one picture of him without being aware of it: One of his shots from that Big Jay concert showing a couple of girls going bezerk in the audience was included in the 1955 international photographic exhibition "The Family of Man" by the Museum of Modern Art (that was revived for another international tour through various museums a couple of years ago).

One I bought recently and which has surprised me pleasantly as a prime example of some more pre-Swing era big band music (the music might well have fitted into the Jazz Oracle catalog, not only for its cleanly restored sound where John R.T. Davies had a hand again): TEXAS & TENNESSEE TERRITORY BANDS 1928-1931 (Retrieval RTR 79006) featuring Blue Steele & His Orchestra, Slim Lamar & His Southerners, Mart Britt & His Orchestra, Sunny Clapp & His Band O'Sunshine, Phil Baxter & His Orchestra (also known as Phil Baxter's Texas Tommies, according to a mention in the "Black Beauty, White Heat" book). Outside the big metropolitan centers, those Texas bands sure were among those who really had their act together.

That's correct, the Mikulski connection. Except that his first name is Bernhard and not Hermann. At various times through the 80s (and beyond) you saw German pressings of Prestige/OJC etc. releases marked as being distributed by "Mikulski GmbH", Mikulski-ZYX", "ZYX" etc.

I think the key to understanding is that "you want to be talked about". Sorry if the formatting of this reply looks weird but somehow ever since the new forum layout came along the "Answer" page on my screen ever so often fouls up in a BIG way. That silly "Fonts"/"Sizes" tab list overlays the top few lines of the entry field and cannot be moved so you either have to type blindfold or go down in the Answer box to make space for an editable line where your cursor moves and you can actually se what you ar etyping. Never happened with the old O layout so o... ?

I rather think that it's the Guardian who is kidding around, and Wynton has nothing to do with this story. The article reads like a jazz insider joke to me. My theory is that Wynton himself send this Raphael or Ramon himself to the Larry Ochs concert, and because he's the prime suspect of jazz fundamentalism, he's now actively playing the innocent. Coming to think of it (and to re-read the sotry), you've got a point there. But wouldn't they expose themselves to a lawsuit if they stuck a story like that on somebody just like that? Anyway, I think it's not so much WM's action but the term "Jazz Nazi" that is controversial. If you have to use strong words to describe this kind of jazz funamentalist (?), you might as well call him a JAZZ TALIBAN. Or would that strike other sensitivities?

Agree with Brownie. Calling the cops because you think the music is "not jazz" is silly (even if by purist criteria it may be so, this "fan" ought to have known better, given that a lot of "recent" jazz falls into the "anything goes" category, like it or not). And making a hero out of somebody like this is even sillier (though maybe just a cleverly launched publicity stunt). But it definitely is not a case of a "jazz nazi". A term like this is way beyond reason.

On vinyl??

Thanks for the info, Brownie! Looks like this vinyl version will be just about as hard to come by as an original.

Tooting Through The Roof Vol. 1

Does anybody happen to know if this Atlantic date that you mention was ever reissued in the Atlantic JAZZLORE LP series of the 80s? I figure an original will be out of price and recent CD reissues (e.g. Fresh Sound) have idiotic pairings where you are bound to already have half of the contents 8i.e. one of the 2 LPs coupled together). And I prefer vinyl anyway if the alternatives exist ...

No wanting to engage in any author bashing but the remarks highlighted above in bold make me feel a bit uneasy. Hope the author hasn't actually used previous biographies as extensively as this review makes it sound. Of course every researcher will acknowledge (and use) previous research but it all depends on the extent. After all the material for this book must have been accumulated roughly "50 years after the fact" (i.e. the death of the subject of the book). A bit late for major interview coups with those who knew the man that would have added a lot of insight. Relying mostly on secondary sources to combine everything that has been written here and there into a new opus would make sense if done thoroughly but to what extent would it offer really new insights? I suppose it was not just meant to be an "Art Tatum Reader" (not that this would necessarily be a bad thing either). And the admission that the book has been written by someone who is not really a writer on matters musical ... ho hum ... Not that I would want to insist on a critical note by note analysis of the music (that one would have to be a musician or musicologist to really grasp in full anyway), but there is something in between that would need to be covered to make the music come alive in the book. And if a leading authority on jazz and jazz research (as is W. Knauer is in this country) stresses this point to that extent (and taking into consideration that he certainly would not want to bash a publication like this either) then this leaves one to wonder what there is to read between the lines in this review. At any rate, I guess I'll have a closer look as soon as a copy appears at one of my (better) local booksellers for perusal.

Of course I will snap up that DSM book if a really decently-priced copy comes my way but as it is now (at the usual prices) this is not really one of my priorities. I agree that a new edition of Claxton's 1955 "Jazz West Coast" would be most welcome (an affordable original copy still seems to be elusive), thorugh we probably have by now seen a lot of its contents in other more recent Claxton books. Re- that "Jazz in LA" book by Nieswand (on Bob Willoughby's photographs) that you mention: In fact I was about to name this one as another example of oversized books in my earlier post but since it's not all that thick it remains quite manageable. BTW, even this one does not really look out of size on my bookshelf as it sits (or rather "stands") next to an (upright) stack of (40s and early 50s) newspaper-sized Down Beats stored folded out (to avoid making the creasing any worse) as well as a 85% complete run of the Swedish jazz mag ESTRAD that for a good deal of its existence had adopted the Down Beat newspaper size too so bound yearly volumes (of which I have several) tend to be really large-sized too. All just a matter of perspective ... Will have to check the "For the Record" book on Steinweiss cover art that was now mentioned ...

Not a million miles away from the Condonites, and particularly one for those who enjoy Wingy Manone's mid-30s recordings (as mentioned above): SHARKEY BONANO & HIS SHARKS OF RHYTHM (1936-37) No idea what current CD reissue these would be on (I have them on an older LP on the TOM/The Old Masters label) but with names like Fazola, Bushkin, Marsala, Brunis and Wettling in the lineup, how can you go really wrong?

The Bob Keene Orchestra LP on Del-Fi was reissued as a facsimile pressing on vinyl by Fresh Sound long ago (late 80s or so). Very nice, very Westcoastish (as Brownie said). Wasn't aware he was actually the founder of the Del-Fi label but after reading this obit things sort of fell in place. Let's see if John Broven has covered this "original independent man" (as it says in the obit) in his "Record Makers and Breakers" too.

@Papsrus: Among your discs you list above, Teddy Wilson really falls a bit outside of the scope you seem to be aiming for. if this kind of jazz is also at the core of what you are looking for we will be well into the Swing era and there will be TONS of material to suggest. But limiting oneself to the earlier stuff ("classic jazz", as many seem to call it nowadays), here are a few comments on the above suggestions and elaborations on these: Don't know what the 1949 Herb Morand sides would be like, but if you are into jug/hokum/good time bands, try to get a sampling of the HARLEM HAMFATS (led by just this Herb Morand) of the 30s. When it comes to very early "revival" jazz (beyond the Condonites), also try MUGGSY SPANIER's Ragtime Band (of the late 30s). For earlier key recordings beyond the recommendations by other forumists and assuming you like your Luis Russell recordings, don't overlook the early (i.e. pre-early 30s) FLETCHER HENDERSON Orchestra as well as McKINNEY'S COTTON PICKERS and the MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND of the early 30s. And in a totally different vein, try the EDDIE LANG-JOE VENUTI groups.

Ah, and and loking at the title of this thread I was hoping that this would lead me to discoveries comparable to those described by Bjorn/Gallert in their book "BEFORE MOTOWN" for the Detroit music scene prior to the onset of soul music there. But glancing over this thread I guess it would be futile to expect SEVERAL DECADES worth of local music tradition that would be worth a comparable writeup? It seems like we are talking about a 5-year (or so) span immediately prior to the outburst of what has since become known as the "San Francisco" scene in its heyday? Please do correct me if I got this substantially wrong.

As long as you do not get addicted to buying Hank Mobley or Lee Morgan Blue note first pressings, that is ... :D (See thread elsewhere here ...) Otherwise, sound advice in Hot Ptah's post here. Something I can relate to as well as I've recently speeded up my music buying too, and this for a number of reasons: 1) Some items just don't get any cheaper anymore at the current US$ to Euro exchange rate. 2) Who knows what inflation is going to be like in years to come so if some purchase has been on your agenda anyway, why not do it now as long as you do not overstretch your limits too far ... 3) Some not so old CDs have started commanding silly prices on the web too so grab them before that hits YOUR topmost wanted items too. 4) Working off some long-held wants lists and browsing through the review sections in some not THAT old music mags has made me realize that a LOT of what has been issued/reissued and has come to be taken for granted "for future purchase" just disappeared in a whiff and went OOP in no time at all so you really have to search high and low in order to find a copy for you after all. 5) Who knows what the pending change of European copyright/public domain legislation might do with certain reissues? Better act now just to play it safe. 6) Somehow I've found secondhand vinyl (even if not top colectible items) in decent condition bought at a good price in the long run never has been that bad an investment. Wish other purchases (and/or stocks) had maintained their value like that as well ... 7) Has any music collector ever really, really had "enough" music? Feel free to take your pick among the above if you need an "excuse" for more purchases. P.S. @MG: Ha, like minds, I see! :D

Milovan, as far as I know this German swing/pop hit of the late 30s ("Ich brauche keine Millionen", aka "Musik Musik Musik" (not to be confused with the 1950 pop hit "Music Music Music" by Teresa Brewer), made famous by an appearance by singer/dancer Marika Rökk from your neighboring country Hungary in the movie "Hallo Janine" ) wasn't exactly unknown in the USA either. Can't find a trace right now but composer Peter Kreuder may well have managed to have it recorded there after WWII. That Otto Stenzel version is definitely one of the lesser versions (not music-wise but as far as popularity went).

Thanks, King Ubu, but of course I did see that description on the Hep website too. I was hoping somebody around here had taken the plunge and bought this one. I like the classics as jazzed up by John Kirby a lot and have also done my share of listening to Hazel Scott (and others) and did enjoy that too within reasonable limits, but here I am a bit doubtful. O.K., then - anybody out there who can provide his listening impressions? Thanx!

I have both (the early 60s German edition and the recent 3-language edition) and while I do find it a bit unwieldy too it is not THAT cumbersome. Remember 3 languages need to be accommodated, and I am glad to see not all the pics are the same as in the original edition from way back when, so both actually are complementary in a way. And some of the photographs actually do profit from being reproduced in that (enlarged) full size. And next to K. Abé's "Jazz Giants" and George T. Simon's "Simon Says" books (and Gene Deitch's "Cat on a Hot Tin Groove") these Taschen "coffee table" books don't look all that unwieldy anmore! And compared to books like that the Taschen books aren't all that expensive for what they offer. At least not by European standards. Anyway ... I agree about Baker's (hello Baker, BTW! ) coments about the collectibility of alex Steinweiss' albums cover art. Nothing agains the graphism and the "period flair" but honestly, a lot of these classical music and Broadway show potpourri 10-inchers should stilll be floating around in the second (third? fourth?) hand bins in somewhat tatty condition and I cannot see them becoming collectibles overnight just because they're Steinweiss covers. It's jsut that - as opposed to most David Stone Martin LPs - the music itself is not that collectible. (BTW, I am not sure I wold have wanted to invest in an entire David Stone Martin book either. The chapter in Manek Daver's other volume ("The rare and the beautiful) did for me for the time being.

Speaking of the Hep label, has anybody ever taken the plunge and bought the "New Friends Of Rhythm" CD (CD 1086)? That "swinging the classics" idea has its charm (and I've listend to a fair bit of that kind of tunes frm that period) but I am not so sure if this particular one really does swing in a really jazzy manner or if it is all just gimmickry. Somehow I am a bit wary when classical musicians all of a sudden discover their jazz inclinations.

That book gets writeups everywhere right now, it seems. But that much money on one single designer only - really a bit too much of the same style - and a huge, huge part of it outside even the outermost boundaries of my musical interests, oh well ... way too expensive (even at "only" 350 euros at Amazon). Now if it was Jim Flora ...