Rabshakeh

Where are we posting our dancehall or gabba listens then?

What's the view on incorporating this one into the "Rock" thread (itself arguably a "black music" and certainly not an exclusively white one) with an appropriate name change?

Is that what it is meant to be?!

The Sisters Of Mercy – Floodland

Bizarre cover image to have chosen. An outtake in itself.

Henry Cow (feat members of Slapp Happy) - In Praise of Learning That is after finishing a salutary morning listen to Cannibal Corpse's Vile, the cover of which I shall refrain from posting, partly so as not to upset and partly so as not to end up on some sort of government list.

What was the rest of the quotation? (Or which chapter was it? I can check myself). I don't recall the section. But I think I had a hunch that he downplayed the Dolphy influence, and it possibly comes from having read that passage (love that book). Whilst I am a big fan of Braxton, his music and life do come together as a package, with a strong eye towards calculated self-presentation. That's not a criticism (to paraphrase a partially-remembered Matthew Shipp quotation, all jazz is really professional wrestling). All performing artists do something similar, and jazz is no different (I think that Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Paul Desmond, Archie Shepp all in their own very different ways concentrated on keeping up their characters). But I think that Braxton is perhaps one of the few who goes beyond character, and whose self-presentation includes the use of a network of symbols and personal props (Sun Ra would perhaps be Jazz's most extreme example). Anyway, personal opinion, hastily formed, is that his comments downplaying a rather clear Dolphy connection, and more particularly his comments playing up the startling but not particularly audible Tristano-ite connection, are part of that same package of self-presentation, just like the pipe, the graphical track titles, the formal modes of address, and the rest.

Nice record. I revisited it not too long ago and it hasn't aged badly.

Sad news. That generation is not getting the due that it deserves.

Not sure who this bloke is. I've tried googling him. I'd like to meet his tailor.

This sums up my feelings on Lovano too. I'm certainly happy he is around and making records, but his leader dates rarely get my blood pulsing. When they do it tends to be because Lovano is a contributory to a well-matched group sound, as on those excellent Motian records.

A decent idea to do it half and half, so that legacy BN is on CD one and the modern entity is on CD two. I don’t think that the modern Blue Note is particularly exciting, although its output is alright, but clearly there’s enough quality to fill a CD. If you are going to treat Blue Note as continuous, it is the right was to do it. What I find interesting about the CD is something else: it is a retrospective across the label’s 85 year history, but the track listing ignores the early years of Blue Note completely. Blue Note was founded during the classic jazz revival and the early label was mostly classic jazz recordings. It wasn’t just juvenalia either: early Blue Note records include some of the most substantial classics of the revival. At least one Bechet tune should be in any 2CD retrospective. But there is nothing there. Instead it starts with Monk, almost a decade into Blue Note’s existence. That is a third of the way into the original label’s history! I am not surprised by this. The reason there can’t be any Bechet on there is obvious. Blue Note the brand is a label that recorded cool monochrome young men in suits smoking and wearing sun glasses indoors, perfect for coffee table books and corporate tie ins. It therefore cannot have recorded old guys in braces and chequered shirts, least of all old men who played anything as dodgy as revivalist hot jazz. And let’s face it. Norah Jones belongs on the thing, she paid for it. Do you hear such a difference between the Lundvall and Was eras? Personally, I would take latter day Blue Note over latter day Verve. Both have put out some decent and occasionally some good records, but if neither existed past 1980 I don’t think I would mourn. I don’t really think that they add very much.

Why is it supposed to be bad? It seems not great but not terrible.

I think it would be hard to argue with this track in particular. Do you think that it is just not mentioned because it is taken for granted? Braxton himself is a chatty man, talks about his influences a lot, and has written widely. I find it strange that he does not mention Dolphy as a major influence when you can hear a track like this. No Dolphy tribute, for example, among the many tribute albums he has done.

A recent anecdote, which is brought to my mind by your comment (not to disagree with it: it is probably correct). I was recently at a dinner at my parents' house, with some of their friends (70ish). My kids (6 and 4) were getting tired and we decided to put them in front of a film. They like the Ray Harryhausen film Jason and the Argonauts, so I suggested The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad, and then headed back to the table, whilst my wife put on "Sinbad". For some reason, the kids (6 and 4) could not really watch it. They kept hopping in and out, saying that it was too scary and they didn't like it. We told them to stop being silly and to go back. The film is from over 50 years ago and is clearly not scary, even if it has some thrills. Various opinions were exchanged over the wine about how kids nowadays can't even watch old films and that they they find them boring because they are used to overstimulating films with endless cuts, and just don't have the attention span anymore. Eventually I got irritated and went in to turn the film off. Turns out it was not the slightly dated but charming The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad. It was some early 80s Z movie called "Sinbad" with zombie skeleton henchmen and a scientist who, as I was walking in, was torturing the heroine by tweaking her nipples in some sort of dungeon, all in grimly cheap film stock. Turns out it wasn't generational. It was just the wrong Sinbad.

I am not sure whether I am the only person to hear it. I have read a lot about the influence of Marsh and Konitz on Braxton's soloing style, but I am an not sure I have read about any influence of Dolphy. To me, it seems quite a clear link between Dolphy's interval hopping and Braxton. This is particularly strong (to my dumb ears) when he is playing other people's tunes. I'm interested whether other forum members are of a similar view. Maybe I am wrong (I am not a musician, or particularly knowledgeable). Perhaps he has acknowledged Dolphy or discussed the link and I have just missed it.

I think 2001 always moved slowly, whether you are raised in a culture of CGI Marvel battles or raised in a culture of Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. The first two acts of that film really are provocatively slow.

So weird how much of the plot revolves around Sting's looks.

Edward Vesala - Ode to the Death of Jazz

Holds up

Mario Pavone – Song For (Septet) A double reed Chapin / Ehrlich front line, with Bill Ward on vibes.

I agree with all of this, but it is weird that even with Yoyo on the Spotify Playlists and well known (my wife knew the song and regarded it as a little "overplayed" before she had even met me), the name AEC is often met with blank looks. Braxton isn't spiritual but the London Fields crowd knows Braxton. This is a particularly sore spot for me, as I am a card carrying member of the London Fields crowd myself (well, maybe more Clissold Park these days - time is cruel), with a son named after a member of the AEC. I'm used to the blank looks.

Moe Koffman – Live At George's

I guess they are all on different labels. Strange that there is generally not much in the way of big reissues. They are a named A list band in basic jazz histories, but for some reason the marketers and the younger punters have never really gone for them. Why they weren't swept up in the excitement around Pharaoh Sanders / Sun Ra / Archie Shepp a few years back isn't really clear to me.

Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage