Louis Armstrong: Complete Hot Fives & Sevens

[wesbed]

From the Columbia Complete Hot Five and Seven Recordings, by Robert G. O'Meally - For baby boomers, who grew up seeing Louis Armstrong on prime-time television variety shows-- the aging Negro mugging duets with a stiff white host, grinning and blowing an old-style horn, mopping his face with a white handkerchief-- the idea of his importance as an avant-garde musician and representative American comes very hard. It's even harder for the children and grandchildren of those born at mid-century. With Armstrong dead in 1971, these youngsters never saw him at all, perhaps never heard of him.

I'm only recently beginning to 'get' and appreciate Louis Armstrong. Jazz music comes to you when it does. You get it when you get it. In the last two days, and most unexpectedly, I pulled my copy of the Columbia Complete Hot Five and Seven Recordings off my shelf. And... wow! There is some INCREDIBLE music here. As I've read in previous posts on this board, everything about jazz is in this box of music somewhere. In some way, Armstrong did it all. He created a foundation that has been fully expanded on, yet never lost. This music is really talking to me as I type these words. I never planned to appreciate this music and Louis Armstrong so much. I purchased the Columbia box to hold as an historic document of jazz music and Americana. It's absolutely fabulous.

In these trying times, this music makes me proud to be an American. To know this American music. This music that I'm pleased to associate with my country, my culture, and that of the world.

>AMG Link<

Edited May 25, 2004 by wesbed

[jazzbo]

AMEN Brother Wes!

[Harold_Z]

I'm glad you're getting into it Wesbed. That stuff is primo. I've been listening to the Hot 5s since I was a teenager - maybe even before. That's some 40+ years and I never get tired of it. There's always something new with every listening.

[EKE BBB]

I NEED to return to that set periodically and play at least a few sides (West End blues, Potato Head blues, Cornet Chop Suey, Heebies Jeebies, Struttin´ with some barbecue, Wild man blues...). It a vital necessity!

[John L]

Great post, Wesbed.

As much great jazz as came after the "foundation," none has exceeded it. It always makes me happy to hear when this music finally clicks for somebody. Once it gets inside of you, that's it. It becomes a part of you for life.

[neveronfriday]

Hey, John L.,

it certainly clicked for me.

Love it.

And I'm a late starter. Maybe you need to have listened to lots of other stuff to appreciate this box, but it could also be that some people are slower than others.

Me, for example.

Cheers!

[Uncle Skid]

Possibly a dumb question, but what's the difference between the Columbia box and the one put out by JSP?

I have the Columbia "best of" CD, and the complete box set has been on my want list for quite a while now. It seems like the JSP is more readily available than the Columbia version.

[jazzbo]

The Columbia has extensive (and imo very nice) notes. The Columbia has really magnificent sound from the original parts or test pressings for most sides. The two sets also have different non Hot Fives and Sevens material from each other.

The JSP has good sound, and some may even prefer the sound, but I think the Columbia wins out for me and my ears and my system. Plus it's a more stately (and expensive) presentation.

[danasgoodstuff]

this really is the stuff, isn't it? If I want to really praise a set of recordings I say 'As good/important in its way as the Hot 5s & 7s'...and I don't say that about much.

[John L]

Hey, John L.,

it certainly clicked for me.

Love it.

And I'm a late starter. Maybe you need to have listened to lots of other stuff to appreciate this box, but it could also be that some people are slower than others.

Me, for example.

Cheers!

Hey, that's the way it is. I know a number of jazz lovers with very good ears who just don't go for Louis Armstrong and the Hot 5s, period. I guess that it might have something to do with the time and technology that separate those recordings from now.

But falling in love with this music is a great thing to do if you can.

For me, it was something close to love at first hear. I had heard "Hello Dolly" and some other 60s Pops when growing up, and never thought much of it. Shortly after he died, I picked up an RCA 2-fer that was released in his memory. The first album was from the mid-30s. The second was from the 40s, including tracks from Town Hall. A few times through and I became an Armstrong fanatic for life. By the time I got to the Hot 5s, the effect was immediate. And now I can even enjoy "Hello Dolly" quite a bit.

[Uncle Skid]

The Columbia has extensive (and imo very nice) notes.  The Columbia has really magnificent sound from the original parts or test pressings for most sides.  The two sets also have different non Hot Fives and Sevens material from each other.

The JSP has good sound, and some may even prefer the sound, but I think the Columbia wins out for me and my ears and my system.  Plus it's a more stately (and expensive) presentation.

Thanks, Lon. I was always curious about the differences between the two boxes. I'm going to try to find the Columbia version.

I think the sound of these recordings definitely turn some people off, especially if their ears are used to RVG's and the like.

I initially couldn't get past that "old" sound, but I remember quite clearly the moment when I could finally hear beyond the limitations of the recording technology, and really hear the music. It took some time, but it was well worth the effort!

[LAL]

I find the music of the Hot 5s and 7s to be some of the best music that was ever recorded, never mind the limitations in sound quality. Satch was undisputedly in blazing form but the others - Johnny Dodds, Kid Ory and Earl Hines were also excellent and contributed much to these recordings. I have the original Columbia Legacy CD issues and the JSP set, but have marked this Columbia box for purchase.

To many listeners though, even some jazz diehards, this music sounds very dated overall. I've loaned some of these material to folks interested in jazz but they just couldn't dig it. Although they could appreciate Satch's instrumental improvisations, they could not enjoy the music in totality. Perhaps many repeated listenings would do the trick?

Out of topic: Strangely, I don't really enjoy Satch's late recordings including Wonderful World, Mack the Knife etc.

[Christiern]

Bill Cosby (in 1959/60 when he was unknown) used to call me to complain when I played the Hot Fives or glorious Duke recordings of the 20s and 30s on my radio show. He wondered why I played this "Uncle Tom music." Sometimes he referred to it as "Mickey Mouse music."

[wesbed]

I think the sound of these recordings definitely turn some people off, especially if their ears are used to RVG's and the like.

I discovered the Hot Fives and Sevens after I'd already spent some time with the HRS and Bix/Tram/Tea Mosaics. The Louis Armstrong Columbia box is at least as good, sound-quality wise, as the Bix/Tram/Tea Mosaic. I suppose my ears were already tuned to the 'old' sound. In fact, I believe the Armstrong Columbia sounds brighter and crisper than the Bix/Tram/Tea Mosaic.

I suspect early Armstrong might be a turn-off if you were a music listener of more modern jazz (1950s and 1960s bop and such). Louis was definitely from the 'old-fashioned' New Orleans jazz school. At the same time, he was oh-so-much more. To compare music of the same time period, I don't hear the brilliant and emotional playing from Bix/Tram as I do from Armstrong's group. Nobody has vocals like Louis Armstrong.

Listening to Bix/Tram helped me to appreciate Louis Armstrong. Conversely, listening to Louis Armstrong helped me to appreciate Bix/Tram.

I think of Louis Armstrong's Hot Five and Seven recordings in the same way as I do about watching a foreign film with subtitles. After about 20 minutes of watching a sub-titled film, if the film is good, I forget about the subtitles and start enjoying the film. Yeah, I'm still reading the words but I no longer notice I'm reading them. In the same fashion, when I listen to jazz from the 1920s and 1930s, if the music is good, I forget about the quality of the old sound. My mind tunes it out. I played all four of the CDs from the Hot Five and Seven Columbia box, one after the other, in order. By the time I reached the fourth CD I had to check the dates on the liner to make certain these were still 'old' recordings. My mind had become so accustomed to the old sound that I was seriously believing the recordings sounded more like they were from the 1960s than the 1920s. I was thinking that, possibly, Columbia had snuck some 1960s Louis on to the fourth disk.

The more I listen to New Orleans jazz (or, jazz from the 1920s & 1930s), the more I hear in it. Thanks, now, more than ever, to Louis Armstrong for showing me the way to really 'get' the music. There is so much going on in some of the 'old style' recordings (Armstrong, Bix/Tram, for example), it can become quite euphoric. However, it takes time and experience to get the ear tuned to the 'old' sound and style.

[EKE BBB]

Out of topic: Strangely, I don't really enjoy Satch's late recordings including Wonderful World, Mack the Knife etc.

Neither do I, LAL!

[wesbed]

Out of topic: Strangely, I don't really enjoy Satch's late recordings including Wonderful World, Mack the Knife etc.

Neither do I, LAL!

I'll admit that I'm actually tired of hearing the "Wonderful World" song. I wouldn't miss it if I never heard it again. The song has been played, way too often, on late-night televison, as the background music, when the advertisement is to get you, the viewer, to send your money to help malnourished and/or diseased children. Or, children without a home, family, or hope. My words are not meant as being against these children. But, I like my jazz to remind me of 'jazz.' I want to think of hot playing and cool sounds. Not some depressing scenes I saw on late-night TV. The "Wonderful World" song seems, to me, more like a worn out, easy-listening pop tune, and nearly nothing like the vibrant, New Orleans influenced, Louis Armstrong of old.

[Harold_Z]

Bill Cosby (in 1959/60 when he was unknown) used to call me to complain when I played the Hot Fives or glorious Duke recordings of the 20s and 30s on my radio show. He wondered why I played this "Uncle Tom music." Sometimes he referred to it as "Mickey Mouse music."

I guess THE COS really missed the point on that scene ! It strikes me that it's kind of presumptous on his part to try and dictate what someone else should do on their show. You could could have countered with script revisions for his show.

Re Pops' later recordings. Yeah..I've od'd on Wonderful World, etc, but there are still many gems in Louis Armstrong's work right up to near the end.

And I love the All Stars. The W.C. Handy album, the Fats album, the stuff with Duke, etc. MANY MANY gems there....and in good sound.

[EKE BBB]

And I love the All Stars. The W.C. Handy album, the Fats album, the stuff with Duke, etc. MANY MANY gems there....and in good sound.

You mentioned three GREAT recordings, Harold. Love´em too!

And the All Stars stuff I´m still getting started (two or three albums in my collection)

[JSngry]

To not understand Louis Armstrong (all of it) is to not understand life (all of it).

[Simon Weil]

I always thought this was tremendous, life-enhancing music. My initial engagement with the music is always a kind of sense/vibe thing - so I'm not terribly bothered by the audiophile issues. I mean my first impression of this music was life-enhancing rich stuff and after that, well...How much detail you can hear is nice but not decisive on whether I listen to the music or not.

When I did try to listen to the music in a detailed way, I couldn't work out why I liked it so much - in that he didn't seem to be doing something so very different from a hundred or so other folks. And then I realized he was the reason these hundred or so other folks sound just like him.

Then I got really excited (kind of obvious I know).

Simon Weil

[Jazzmoose]

Bill Cosby (in 1959/60 when he was unknown) used to call me to complain when I played the Hot Fives or glorious Duke recordings of the 20s and 30s on my radio show. He wondered why I played this "Uncle Tom music." Sometimes he referred to it as "Mickey Mouse music."

Well, Diz said some disparaging things about Louis as well at one time in history...surely we've all said things we later regretted? Live and let live, peace to all. Let's just chill...

Of course, if Cosby still believes that, screw the son of a bitch!

[LAL]

And I love the All Stars. The W.C. Handy album, the Fats album, the stuff with Duke, etc. MANY MANY gems there....and in good sound.

You mentioned three GREAT recordings, Harold. Love´em too!

And the All Stars stuff I´m still getting started (two or three albums in my collection)

Yes the Complete RCA box, Great Chicago Concert, California Concerts, the 2 1947 Classics discs - all must haves if you don't already.

[EKE BBB]

And I love the All Stars. The W.C. Handy album, the Fats album, the stuff with Duke, etc. MANY MANY gems there....and in good sound.

You mentioned three GREAT recordings, Harold. Love´em too!

And the All Stars stuff I´m still getting started (two or three albums in my collection)

Yes the Complete RCA box, Great Chicago Concert, California Concerts, the 2 1947 Classics discs - all must haves if you don't already.

Damn you again, LAL!

[skeith]

I guess I don't understand life, because while I adore the Hot 5 and 7 recordings and some other 1930's Armstrong stuff, I can not stomach any of his post 1930's work. Anything with that Middleton woman, I find to be just silly and demeaning to Louis's artistry- so I don't buy it. I have owned the "California Concerts" and several All Star recordings and have sold them all. Didn't like the WC Handy and other supposed later classics. Nothing wrong with Louis's playing of course, it's just the context.

But don't touch my Hot 5 and 7's box, thank you.

[jazzbo]

Hmmm. . . I guess I can understand that and I can respect it for sure. But it was Velma and Louis that got me STARTED on Louis, so I'm not sure that I could ever dissassociate myself from the forties and fifties material with Velma in the band, and there really are some SLAMMING sides from the All Stars, the big band with Dexter in it, etc. . . . I've learned to love all things Armstrong and these Columbia fifties dates led me to so many other great sides and musicians. . . I'll never sell mine!