king ubu Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Amazing how many people are willing to admit that they know who Peter North is... No problem at all, 'cause those who do not know will not get it, and those who know will post Well, I don't know him (I swear!), but hell, don't I have to something for my post count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Hey King-ya gotta do what you gotta do!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Hey King-ya gotta do what you gotta do!!!! You're right. Uh, now I have forgotten what I actually wanted to substance-wise add to this thread Maybe it was something about Freddie Hubbard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 (edited) Arturo Sandoval. Couldn't agree more. My uncle plays me bits of his Sandoval CD's every time I visit, and I don't think I've ever heard an inspired note come out of his horn. My uncle played me some more Sandoval over Thanksgiving. My uncle's totally taken with what Sandoval can do in those upper, upper registers. I still don't get what the draw is. Edited December 5, 2004 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I don't understand how some people consider KD to be "overrated". That's strange. Underrated, perhaps. I agree re: Sandoval. He kind of pretends to play in the upper register, a lot of notes he just forces out of his horn, there's no tone quality when he goes up there. And that last "trumpet evolution" (not worthy of caps) or whatever it was called, how dumb of an album idea was that? I can't believe he consented to do that album. I don't even want to hear it, I'd rather forget it was even thought of in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Nobody's said it yet, so here goes: Lee Morgan. A great trumpeter, but he probably made too many records. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank m Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Ok--I'm an ignorant geezer but I don't understand the bit about Peter North. I've never heard of him before, let alone heard him play. Please enlighten me. I was going to say something negative about Chet Baker but I had second thoughts. I remember looking at lp albums of his, one when he was a young guy just starting out, and another close onto his death. There is such a marked change in his face that it can't be due to aging alone, but due to what he did to himself with drugs, that I can't say a rotten thing about him or his music. The only comment it seems fair to make is , tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Ok--I'm an ignorant geezer but I don't understand the bit about Peter North. I've never heard of him before, let alone heard him play. Please enlighten me. You're kidding, right? Let's just say his nickname is the "North Pole" and he doesn't play an instrument. His main "instrument" is, well just ask board member Peter "Johnson", maybe he could elaborate. To put it bluntly: Peter North is a porn star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Nobody's said it yet, so here goes: Lee Morgan. A great trumpeter, but he probably made too many records. Guy Considering he died at the relative young age of 34 in early 1972, that's quite a statement you made. I shudder to think how you would feel had he lived and had recorded however often or sporadically the last 32+ years. Aside from a forgettable very commercial date with Bobbi Humphrey made sometime within a year or two of his death, I'd be hard pressed to point to any Lee Morgan date that I would part with. He was a terrific player with a tremendous amount of soul. Dig his solo on Grachan Moncur's EVOLUTION date, "The Coaster", and then wonder how great it would have been if he had survived a few more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Lee Morgan is awesome. I also love Kenny Dorham. Overrated trumpet player? Wynton Marsalis is hard to beat as far as being overrated, but we all probably know that already. I really can't think of any others right now. Roy Hargrove is probably overrated as well, though I do like his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 For sure if you based your opinion of Hargrove on his track record as a recording leader, you'd say he was vastly overrated. But once you see him live you understand what all the fuss is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Couldn't agree w/ you more, DRJ. He can play his ass off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I don't think that Dorham is overrated but I can see how he can leave some people underwhelmed. There's something about Whistle Stop that leaves me cold about half the time I play it. I'm not sure if it's the music or the RVG remastering, but it just doesn't seem to crackle the way you'd expect it to. The writing is top-notch, it's just the playing that I sometimes find lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Tooter: Lee Konitz not individual??? I would go back to the drawing board if I were you. Maybe Benny Golson is a better example as a bit more generic a horn player. But if I could compose like Benny Golson, I really wouldn't given a damn. I see that this 6 month-old comment went unchallenged. What is it about Benny Golson's tenor playing that some folks find "generic"? To my ears, he's very distinctive and easily recognizeable. Is it that his style was not mullti-faceted enough for some? I guess "generic" in not a term I would use to describe someone like Golson. For me, it's harder to recognize Hank Mobley (whom I love, BTW) than Benny. Regarding Chet, I think he was more about the melodies (and melodic improvising) than he was about being a trumpet player. And yet he was a great trumpet player when he was "on" (probably a poor choice of words in this case). Obviously, he had it clicking at the beginning of his career (when Bird selected him in that big audition). He went through some very tough times, and recorded too many times when he was ill and ill-prepared, but right to the bitter end, he still produced some real gems from time to time. Those '65 Prestige sessions were by no means the only examples of the hot side of Chet (but that side didn't show itself as often, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I don't think that Dorham is overrated but I can see how he can leave some people underwhelmed. There's something about Whistle Stop that leaves me cold about half the time I play it. I'm not sure if it's the music or the RVG remastering, but it just doesn't seem to crackle the way you'd expect it to. The writing is top-notch, it's just the playing that I sometimes find lacking. That's strange because I really like WHISTLE STOP. Everyone is in fine form: Hank, the leader, a top-notch rhythm section that is just cooking. Maybe you don't dig the compositions, although I find that hard to believe as well. Give it another chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 For sure if you based your opinion of Hargrove on his track record as a recording leader, you'd say he was vastly overrated. But once you see him live you understand what all the fuss is about. When/Where did you see Roy perform live, Dr. J? Was it with his quintet? If I ever get the chance to see him live, I'm definitely going to jump at it. He's probably my favorite of the younger generation of trumpet players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 I don't think that Dorham is overrated but I can see how he can leave some people underwhelmed. There's something about Whistle Stop that leaves me cold about half the time I play it. I'm not sure if it's the music or the RVG remastering, but it just doesn't seem to crackle the way you'd expect it to. The writing is top-notch, it's just the playing that I sometimes find lacking. That's strange because I really like WHISTLE STOP. Everyone is in fine form: Hank, the leader, a top-notch rhythm section that is just cooking. Maybe you don't dig the compositions, although I find that hard to believe as well. Give it another chance. Whistle Stop is an awesome record, in my opinion! A love-at-first-listen affair, for me! Maybe my favourite Dorham, together with the Jazz Prophets' recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 For sure if you based your opinion of Hargrove on his track record as a recording leader, you'd say he was vastly overrated. But once you see him live you understand what all the fuss is about. I think his best performance is on Roy Haynes Birds of a Feather. Not as a leader - but he plays his ass off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Donald Byrd Russell Gunn Chet Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Wynton is the most underated of the overated His solo on "Cherokee" with the MJQ is better than anything I ever heard come out Byrd or Hubbard's horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Wynton is the most underated of the overated His solo on "Cherokee" with the MJQ is better than anything I ever heard come out Byrd or Hubbard's horns. Check his trumpet solo on "Shooting Star" from Ted Nash's "Still Evolved". It might be the best recorded trumpet solo of the new millenium so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 A seven-page thread listing overrated trumpet players. Now that is depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpet Guy Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Wynton is the most underated of the overated  His solo on "Cherokee" with the MJQ is better than anything I ever heard come out Byrd or Hubbard's horns. Check his trumpet solo on "Shooting Star" from Ted Nash's "Still Evolved". It might be the best recorded trumpet solo of the new millenium so far. I find these quotes pretty depressing as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Wynton is the most underated of the overated  His solo on "Cherokee" with the MJQ is better than anything I ever heard come out Byrd or Hubbard's horns. Check his trumpet solo on "Shooting Star" from Ted Nash's "Still Evolved". It might be the best recorded trumpet solo of the new millenium so far. I find these quotes pretty depressing as well... Me too. Best recorded solo "of the new millenium so far", what the hell kind of statement is that anyway. What makes the solo so special? Did Crouch do an analysis of it, with Wynton explaining the pyrotechnics? I do dig Hargrove, though, and would kill to see him live one day. I just hope he resolves some of his "personal issues". Hey Phil, when's the new album coming out? I really liked PLAYFUL INTENTIONS. Very cool front line with guitar and trumpet. Some very original-sounding tunes as well, "Idioteque" is one that comes to mind. I'm going to spin this one again today in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Give it a listen and find me a recently-recorded trumpet solo better than this one. I'm not particularly big Wynton fan, and don't own anything he recorded after the mid 1980's. But I do acknowledge that he has alot of ability, even though it is rarely displayed. This solo isn't even all that "pyrotechnic". In fact, it doesn't even really sound like anything I've heard by him before. Obviously, playing with progressive musicians like Kimbrough, Allison, and Wilson was inspiring to him, and he unleased a monster of a solo on this particular track. No Stanley Crouch essays, and no commentary by Wynton, just a fantastic good ol' fashioned trumpet solo with lots harmonic and rhythmic variation that paints a beautiful picture. You don't have to agree with me about it being one of the best...but give it a listen and try not to be so close-minded. You sound like Hardbop when he's talking about a Fender Rhodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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