Aggie87 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Bump - I just recently picked up the sequel to that Arcana release, "Arc of the Testimony", and am going through it for the first time. It's mainly a trio of Williams, Laswell, and Nicky Skopelitis, with Pharaoh Sanders, Byard Lancaster, Graham Haynes, & Buckethead on some of the tracks. Pretty intense playing by Tony here! Not really bashing to my ears, but very strong and direct. It's interesting to me how diverse his music was right up until the end, between this and his trio recording on Columbia, "Young at Heart". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Tony's later drumming doesn't do much for me. I guess he was such an innovator that I expect more of the same. No one stands still though, I just wish I liked it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 This is unbelievable! This high quality footage was just posted by Jack Bruce’s Twitter account of the Tony Williams Lifetime w/Jack Bruce, John McLaughlin and Larry Young. I never expected to see anything like this. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 Astonishing!! Some of the best camera work one could even imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 Beat Club was the top adress at the time for jazz rock fusion tv broadcast appearances in Germany. Ginger Baker's Air Force, The Flock, Blood, Sweat & Tears with Larry Willis .... don"t know why I missed this one. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikeweil said: Beat Club was the top adress at the time for jazz rock fusion tv broadcast appearances in Germany. Ginger Baker's Air Force, The Flock, Blood, Sweat & Tears with Larry Willis .... don"t know why I missed this one. Thanks for posting. Evidently at a time when this TV show was no longer geared towards "Beat" music in the actual sense of the word. By the time they had switched to color (January 1970) the producers aimed more and more towards niche and more avantgarde tastes in pop music (even within rock, I'd say). Amazing that the bigwigs in German TV allowed the show to continue in that format until December 1972. Hardly imaginable in today's TV, regardless of what niche and specialist tastes in rock music you'd think of ... I wonder if "unreleased footage" indeed means this was not broadcast at the time. Almost 10 minutes for one act would be fairly long indeed for a 60-minute show that usually accommodated 9 to 10 acts (plus emcee talk) within each show. According to the setlist of the individual shows in the below link there is no mention of any Tony Willams appearance. No doubt it would be interesting to know which show this had been intended for and when exactly in 1970 it was recorded. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat-Club/Episodenliste#1970_-_Staffel_6 Edited September 4, 2023 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) Dpn't forget that This show was hosted by Radio Bremen, in a town where the progressive pop culture had a home. It is significant that this town also became the home of the Archive für populäre Musik (which still exists). That station definitely had a more tolerant approach than others aiming at the mainstrream. And: what other pop music tv shows were there at the time? That this was not boradcast explains why I never saw it back then, as I watched these shows regularly and certainly would have remembered. Edited September 4, 2023 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 25 minutes ago, mikeweil said: And: what other pop music tv shows were there at the time? "Betty's Beat-Box-Haus"! I very dimly remember having caught glimpses of this show on TV here and there as a kid (without really understanding or even digging it - I was not even 10 years old then) and this discussion of the "Beat Club" brought back these memories. But no - Betty's house was no competition for the Beat Club - never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said: "Betty's Beat-Box-Haus"! Never heard of it or watched it! 😦 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 According to the Web, it was on ARD from 1968 to 70. But you did not miss anything. For some reason the name of the show stuck in my memory, and years later (after I had started collecting, including Merseybeat and "all the rest"), I remembered it again, and the name stuck even more because it was sooo perfectly, absolutely "square" (play on words not really intended but unavoidable ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitstructures Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 On 7/30/2004 at 9:50 PM, mikeweil said: ..... and here's an album no fusion basher would have participated in: http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000001C3W.03.LZZZZZZZ.gif Arcana - The Last Wave Bill Laswell, Derek Bailey & Tony Williams Totally killer album! Not a big fan of the second one even though I love the sax stuff on it, I think Buckethead is the weak link for me. On 7/30/2004 at 9:50 PM, mikeweil said: ..... and here's an album no fusion basher would have participated in: http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000001C3W.03.LZZZZZZZ.gif Arcana - The Last Wave Bill Laswell, Derek Bailey & Tony Williams Totally killer album! Not a big fan of the second one even though I love the sax stuff on it, I think Buckethead is the weak link for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 Perhaps a little insight ... Posted by Malcolm Bruce “The following footage of LIFETIME has apparently just surfaced from the Beat Club archives. I’m wondering if there is more, although my understanding is that these in studio sessions were limited to 30 minutes. This was my Dad’s favourite band that he was involved with, for so many reasons I understand that notion, the sheer musical potential between them was self evident. Unfortunately it seems nobody really ‘got’ the concept, especially the industry. This I believe was the 2nd iteration, the first being a trio with just Tony, John and Larry, which without wishing to detract from them, was essentially a more conventional albeit avant-garde group. With the inclusion of my Dad it became something completely unprecedented. It was a time when real musicians who could actually play desired to be like rock stars as opposed to being pigeonholed by an industry devoid of insight into the potentialities of music making. And I’m not sure spiritually we have advanced since then, in fact I think we have regressed. Also, from the comments section: apparently some footage was shown in episode 61 of Beat Club, of McLaughlin rolling his eyes and the band stopping mid play, with presenter Uschi Nerke telling the viewers, ”Lifetime have behaved so badly and arrogantly in the studio that the work didn’t lead to any presentable results and had to be cancelled.” Read into that what we will, but I do hope there is more from this studio recording. The only other recording I have encountered from this lineup playing live is an audience recording from one of their U.K. shows (of which there were only a handful, some I believe booked by the late great Stuart Lyon) and it’s essentially unlistenable.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 5 hours ago, BFrank said: Perhaps a little insight ... Posted by Malcolm Bruce “Also, from the comments section: apparently some footage was shown in episode 61 of Beat Club, of McLaughlin rolling his eyes and the band stopping mid play, with presenter Uschi Nerke telling the viewers, ”Lifetime have behaved so badly and arrogantly in the studio that the work didn’t lead to any presentable results and had to be cancelled.” ” If this was so then that footage would have been here somewhere in between (as per the link I provided in an earlier reply). Does this appear plausible? 61 28. November 1970 Stone the Crows - Danger Zone Colosseum - Take Me Back To Doomsday Fotheringay - Too Much Of Nothing Muddy Waters - Blow Wind Blow Muddy Waters - Honey Bee Colosseum - Tanglewood '63 Stone The Crows - Love 74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 What's heard in the video clearly was beyond the comprehension capacities of any German rock fan or tv host of the time. No neat song structures - even The Flock or B,S & T had that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 This footage is fantastic. I do hope more surfaces as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 Nice piece here by Richard Williams about the video and Lifetime: https://thebluemoment.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitstructures Posted September 6, 2023 Report Share Posted September 6, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, mikeweil said: What's heard in the video clearly was beyond the comprehension capacities of any German rock fan or tv host of the time. No neat song structures - even The Flock or B,S & T had that. I mean there are some "krautrock" bands that reach similar territory to Lifetime. Have you ever listened to Exmagma? Rock trio of former members of Wolfgang Dauner's group doing fusion and prog in pretty equal measure... Edited September 6, 2023 by unitstructures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 19, 2023 Report Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) I just found a comment on a German jazz site about the video excerpts, written by Michael Rüsenberg: " Seit wenigen Tagen online: ein Ausschnitt aus dem bislang unveröffentlichten Auftritt von Tony Williams Lifetime im Beatclub, 24. Oktober 1970. John McLaughlin, g, Jack Bruce, bg, voc, Larry Young, org, Tony Williams, dr. Die Titelei ist falsch. TWL spielt einen Medley aus: Smiles & Grins (J. Bruce) : 00:00 - 02:38 Devotion (J. McLaughlin) : 02:39 - 05:25 Smiles & Grins Reprise (J. Bruce) : 05:26 - 06:30 Dance of Maya (J. McLaughlin) : 06:30 - 09:41 Winfried Trenkler und ich waren dort. Wir kamen zu spät zur Aufzeichnung. Wir trafen die Band (außer TW) im Hotel. Die Musiker waren verärgert über den Regisseur Mike Leckebusch (1937-2000). Sie hatten die Aufzeichnung abgebrochen. Die sehr vage Erinnerung sagt: es habe einen Konflikt über die bereitgestellte Anlage gegeben. Beatclub-üblich war Orange. TWL bestand auf Marshall. Erstaunlicherweise sind Boxen beider Marken im Bild. Interessant die überbordende Kommentierung des Videos: was die Leute so alles herausfinden! PS (08.09.22) Recherchen bei Radio Bremen ergeben, dass die Chancen, weiteres Material als diese nun frenetisch begrüßten 9 Minuten und 45 Sekunden zu finden, denkbar gering sind. That´s all there is to it! Insider vermuten die Quelle für die jetzige YouTube-Veröffentlichung (fast 100.000 Aufrufe in 6 Tagen) auch gar nicht in Bremen, sondern in Hamburg ("...ein Maulwurf"). erstellt: 05.09.23 ©Michael Rüsenberg, 2023. Alle Rechte vorbehalten" It corrects the song titles and says that chances that there might be more are practically zero, there had been a disagreement about the amps, so the musicians stopped the sessions. Beat Club standard was Orange amps, but they wanted Marshall (strangely, both brands can be seen in the video). https://www.jazzcity.de/index.php/news/2899-tony-williams-lifetime-im-beatclub Edited September 19, 2023 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambrasa Posted Monday at 09:58 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 09:58 PM And now this footage has seen official release: https://www.discogs.com/release/29245333-Jack-Bruce-Smiles-And-Grins-Broadcast-Sessions-1970-2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted Tuesday at 01:39 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 01:39 AM Ooh, Bruce/Hiseman/Surman? Say no more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted Tuesday at 03:17 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:17 AM I got the box last week. Haven't had time to spend time with it yet, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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