Verve OOP titles available as downloads

[Aftab]

This may have been posted before, but I think it's cool - seems like some good stuff there, including this one

Here's the link to the list -

Verve Vault - Out Of Print Albums

Edited December 15, 2004 by Aftab

[jazzbo]

Some new ones since I last looked!

Going to have to get a way to download and burn eventually. . . . Looks like a good program.

[bertrand]

I downloaded the George Russell when I got my ipod.

They charged $10, which seems high to me, especially since you get no cover art or liners but, most of all...

...because it's defective!

Here's the deal: in itunes, they put in a 2-second gap between tunes. When I import a CD, if the songs were meant to me connected (e.g., the suite from Charlie Haden's Ballad of the Fallen), or if one song flows into the next (e.g. 'Marbles' into 'Sirens' on John McLaughlin's Devotion), and you leave the gap in there, there will be an abrupt break in the ipod as you listen to the CD.

The solution is simple: when I import, I choose the 'join CD tracks' option. The downside is the two songs are now connected as one, but the big plus is that they flow uninterrupted. I think this could be a problem for something like Zappa's Uncle Meat, which I suspect can only be cleanly imported as four really long tracks (one per album side), but I'll worry about that later. I'm happy with the way it turned out for the Haden and McLaughlin.

For the Russell, however, I don't see a solution, because I think the six tracks were created with the abrupt halt between 'Chromatic Universe I' and 'Dimensions' (there is a second or two of 'Universe' at the beginning of 'Dimensions'). I burned it to a CD, and the break is still there. The only thing I can think of is to import the tracks from the CD I made, using the join while importing, then make a new CD. But I would have to risk wasting a second blank disk, plus I don't really want to risk over-writing the tracks I actually bought.

Unless someone can suggest a solution to this problem, I don't really want to buy any more Verve downloads. I'm sorry I was too honest and spent $10 of my money, instead of just burning this OOP CD off a friend of mine. That'll teach me to get bullied into caving into the copyright police.

Fuck Verve.

Bertrand.

Edited December 15, 2004 by bertrand

[DrJ]

It's the old fogey coming out in me, probably, but honestly at this point I want nothing to do with this. I simply don't have the time to hassle with downloads (and the glitches that Bertrand mentions), creating my own liners, etc. Plus they sound like crap, and they're ridiculously expensive considering what you aren't getting. Man do I miss the Verve Elites...

[sjarrell]

I dig my Mo-Roc and my Let it Go and wish all of the Buddy DeFranco/Sonny Clark stuff would come available.

And I'm pretty old!

[Alec]

I feel sorry for Verve!

On one hand they get a "Fuck Verve" from Bertrand because he doesn't like the expense, lack of covers and liner notes, and limitations in downloading and track breaks. (all valid concerns, let me add)

On the other hand, if these were not available they would get a "Fuck Verve" for not making their back catalog available.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't

[Jim Alfredson]

I don't think the time inbetween tunes is Verve's fault. Most CD burning software allows you to determine how many seconds of silence you want between tracks, including "0".

[Dan Gould]

If you're downloading to your hard drive, couldn't you extract wav files and make sure the indexes are right?

[Shawn]

If you're downloading to your hard drive, couldn't you extract wav files and make sure the indexes are right?

Yes.

[sjarrell]

I feel sorry for Verve!

...Damned if they do, damned if they don't

Exactly. I think they should be complimented for doing it AND encouraged to keep it up. Eventually every lick of jazz that's oop should be available this way. Kicks the shit out of unavailability, the way I see it.

I could never have found Mo-roc for $8 or whatever I paid for it otherwise.

Verve's website does sort of suck, though. Anybody got a Verve Vault Guy email address I can send fan mail to?

[sjarrell]

Answering my own question and now I feel bad about saying their site sucks:

catalogdivision@vervemusicgroup.com

[bertrand]

I don't think the defect is fixable because it was created that way.

I'm willing to try the index thing. All I want to do is move the six tracks to a CD, but in such a way that there is no gap between tracks 1 and 2. If necessary, I'm willing to join the two tracks.

The join CD tracks option is disabled when I'm burning a CD from the itunes download - it's only available when importing from a CD that I own. On my CD, there is no gap, it's only created by itunes and as Jim said, I can change 2 to 0. But I don't see how to do that when burning from an itunes file that has the break.

How shall I proceed? I didn't really download these - itunes did it for me when I said 'yes' to 'buy this song'. No options were offered. Maybe that's the problem...

Thanks,

Bertrand.

Edited December 16, 2004 by bertrand

[Jim Alfredson]

I know nothing about iTunes. It seems silly that it won't let you control the track spacing.

[pryan]

I don't think the defect is fixable because it was created that way.

I'm willing to try the index thing. All I want to do is move the six tracks to a CD, but in such a way that there is no gap between tracks 1 and 2. If necessary, I'm willing to join the two tracks.

The join CD tracks option is disabled when I'm burning a CD from the itunes download - it's only available when importing from a CD that I own. On my CD, there is no gap, it's only created by itunes and as Jim said, I can change 2 to 0. But I don't see how to do that when burning from an itunes file that has the break.

How shall I proceed? I didn't really download these - itunes did it for me when I said 'yes' to 'buy this song'. No options were offered. Maybe that's the problem...

Thanks,

Bertrand.

That's odd, Bertrand. I clicked "buy" on a Gene Ammons album, but it didn't contact the store in time and I managed to cancel. Did it charge you automatically? You should notify them so that they can fix the problem.

[jazzbo]

Hey covers are right there, just need to be resized a little, they come out well on a halfway decent printer. . . .

I wish liner notes were available too. But as I read less and less of these as time goes by that's less and less a big deal to me!

[bertrand]

I can live without the liners and the cover (but I'm not ditching my CDs!). It's the defective creation of audio files that ticks me off.

Bertrand.

[Aftab]

You could manually fix the gaps with some editing software such as sound forge.

You'd have to transfer the files to .wav first.

Then most likely you'd have to trim off the silence from the front or end of the track, then burn it with software that allows you to control track locations and splits, such as nero.

[DrJ]

Oh I guess in one sense it's cool Verve are doing this, not trying to slag the company or anything. As I said, it's probably more about me.

I'm just saying personally I'm pretty much not going to be able to take advantage of it. With a 17 month old child, and the typically overloaded schedule of a physician, I barely have time to eat most days let alone wait for downloads, resize cover art, fix gaps in the tracks, etc...sadly just not plausible. I wish it were, but I suspect many people will also give up on dealing with this as well. When I get 2 minutes free time I am planning on spending it listening, not doing all that crud.

Just makes me nostalgic for being able to walk into a store or go online and (gasp) purchase an actual finished product, end of story.

[Guest ariceffron]

WHEN MY INDEPENDENT RELEASE, A BABY-FACE SUPREME: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF BABYFACE WILLETTE IS RELEASED, I WILL MAKE PARTICULAR NOTE TO DISCREDIT VERVE RECORDS

[Brad]

I'm getting an ipod soon so thanks for the warning although I'll just use it to transfer existing cds to it. I had thought about downloading one of those Verve albums but will probably not. As Tony says, I just don't have time enough in the day to do all these things. By the time I get home from work, eat dinner and make sure my son gets to bed, I've had it. There's very little time left for listening. So the time I get is valuable. Modern living, it's such a joy.

[bertrand]

Brad, Dr. J,

Exactly my point. Sure, I could spend a couple of hours fucking around figuring out how to correct this problem using the method aftab describes. But I spent $10 bucks on this CD, so I expect Verve to take care of these problems.

Clearly, they just tossed the downloads on there without any thought to quality control. I've no problem buying individual tracks, but if this is what downloaded CDs are like, I'm not getting any more.

I will send a complaint to itunes and see what they think.

Bertrand.

Edited December 19, 2004 by bertrand

[gdogus]

I know nothing about iTunes.  It seems silly that it won't let you control the track spacing.

iTunes does let you control the gap between tracks when burning to CD. Bertrand is saying that Verve has created tracks that already have some seconds of silence at the end - that is, they've built the gap into the track itself. So, even if he sets the gap at "0" in iTunes, there's still two seconds of silence at the end of the track, making an effective gap when there shouldn't be one.

Edited December 19, 2004 by gdogus

[.:.impossible]

Bertrand,

Jim is right.

In iTunes, go to Preferences, then click "Burning." For "Gap Between Songs," choose "None." Click OK and this will now be your new default.

I hope this helps.

edit: sounds like it won't now that I've read dogus' post.

Edited December 19, 2004 by .:.impossible

[bertrand]

Gdogus,

Thank you for summarizing the problem far more eloquently than I was able to!

I will still contact itunes first, but I suspect the problem is at Verve's end. If I really believe they will fix it, then I am also ready to buy that provebial bridge in Brooklyn.

Like others have said, my time is too precious to spend any time messing with this. I reported the problem here, and already some who were considering buying these CDs from Verve have decided against it. I cost Verve a few customers - my job here is done!

Bertrand.

Edit: Now I don't know - with impossible's post, there may be a way out. I may not have burned the right way (I clicked on an icon). However, I do not want the 0 as a default - just something temporary. Also, I was not able to eliminate the space before uploading to the iPod. The only time I can do that is when importing one of my CDs, but I have to do it during the import, not during the export to the iPod.

I still think Verve messed up, because there's a second of track 1 at the beginning of track 2. However, if I can find a way to join those two, I would be content (albeit still pissed off at Verve). Any ideas?

Edited December 19, 2004 by bertrand

[.:.impossible]

Bertrand,

Actually, I think you probably do want 0 as your default. Any space programmed into the album will remain. Making 0 your default means that itunes will not ADD additional space between tracks.

FWIW, there is also a crossfade option. If you cannot get rid of the 2 second spacer, you might want to try turning the crossfade option on at 2 seconds. This has worked well for me on certain lists.

Good luck!