Musician vent. Everyone profits but us.

[Soul Stream]

O.K. I'll throw down a little vent. Something I'm noticing more and more. Maybe it's because I live in a town full of musicians, but I'm beginning to see the light.

How come the industries that service the musician, (ie, instrument repairmen, soundmen, clubs, music stores, rehearsal halls, festival promotors, doormen, recording studios, cd manufacturers,....hell, EVERYBODY) all make PLENTY of money. Mostly charging outrages prices for there "services". Yet we as musicians make jack squat for a gig.

What suckers we all are. God, if we could only all go on strike for about a year and put everything back in perspective.

[Chuck Nessa]

I'm willing to put the indie record company problems against yours anytime.

Wanna go toe to toe? (And I don't live in a town full of label owners/producers.)

[Chuck Nessa]

Once I was at a meeting when a musician said "I wish, just once, a record producer said 'hey, we made more than we expected on that project - here's some extra bread' ". I said I'd be happy to do that AFTER I heard a musician said "Hey, I know what you were trying to do, and it just didn't work out - here's some bread back".

He laughed and gave me an elbow in the ribs.

Please note, I understand your complaints. They are valid, but are the same for all "art driven" folks.

[Jazz Kat]

I can't wait to become a full-time musician.

[GA Russell]

My girlfriend is a musician. I think the booking agency keeps half the fee.

[JSngry]

You got your girlfriend through a booking agency?

[GA Russell]

No, but she's pretty enough!

[AllenLowe]

I've never made near a living as a musician - my best year, maybe I made $10,000. On the other hand I regard musicians as their own worst enemies. Chuck is right - few have any sense of the larger business picture, they undermine each other, there's no real sense of community. That's why I work for an insurance company, so I can strike back at guys like Chuck - CLAIM DENIED!

[Jazz Kat]

Never got payed for a gig. Just play with some people on Long Island from time to time, and sit in at small places.

[Jim Alfredson]

I'm basically averaging per night what my dad was averaging back when he was a full-time musician in the 1970s. And no, that's not adjusted for inflation, that's real dollars. My dad was making $100 per night five nights a week at Sammy's Lounge here in Lansing in the late 70s/early 80s before getting out of the music business and that's basically what I take home per night.

Ridiculous.

[Jim Alfredson]

And I should add that playing five nights in a row at different venues, much less at the same venue, is totally out of the question now.

[Jazz Kat]

I'll never forget what I heard one guy say. "Me and my brother always loved jazz. He became a musician, I became a poet. And whenever we get together, the age old question comes up. Who makes more money? A jazz musician or a poet?"

[connoisseur series500]

I'm basically averaging per night what my dad was averaging back when he was a full-time musician in the 1970s. And no, that's not adjusted for inflation, that's real dollars. My dad was making $100 per night five nights a week at Sammy's Lounge here in Lansing in the late 70s/early 80s before getting out of the music business and that's basically what I take home per night.

Ridiculous.

Damn, Jim.

That's not very good. I'm sure you wonder whether you can keep this up longterm.

No wonder Joe works for the city.

[Jim Alfredson]

That's not very good. I'm sure you wonder whether you can keep this up longterm.

It's getting even scarier now that my wife is on disability. She's the main bread winner but she's taking home less than I make now and if we can't get this figured out and she can't go back to work, then what?

I'll be getting a real job, that's what. Unless Organissimo suddenly becomes the next Soulive or something, but I ain't holding my breath.

[Jazz Kat]

Man, I gotta hear you guys!

[Free For All]

Save your paper route money and get this....

BTW, I noticed that over at AAJ they seem to think the title is "Waiting on the Boogaloo Sisters". Has that been discussed? WTF?

[Soul Stream]

I'm basically averaging per night what my dad was averaging back when he was a full-time musician in the 1970s.  And no, that's not adjusted for inflation, that's real dollars.  My dad was making $100 per night five nights a week at Sammy's Lounge here in Lansing in the late 70s/early 80s before getting out of the music business and that's basically what I take home per night.

Ridiculous.

It's very tough. The thing I find disconcerting is that gig money has remained the same (like Jim said), but everything else, even gig-related costs have gone way, way, way up.

1. It's less and less a cash business, here comes the checks and the w2s.

2. Gas is so high now, out of town gigs pay less and the gas eats you up. plus fewer places want to put you up in a hotel now, so it's drive there, do the gig, and drive back. A nice 12 hour trip that ends about 6am usually.

3. Just plain fewer places to play.

4. Places pay less.

5. Older musicians I play with can't believe the money anymore. It's degrading to them a lot of times. But hey, it's REALITY.

Edited January 29, 2005 by Soul Stream

[Jim Alfredson]

Man, I gotta hear you guys!

If you dig guitar then you owe it to yourself to hear Joe G.

[JSngry]

God, if we could only all go on strike for about a year and put everything back in perspective.

Nice sentiment, but about 20 years too late, unfortunately.

Face it - we're analog dinosaurs in a digital era. We and what we offer are no longer interesting, much less relevant, to the lifestyles and mindsets of the vast majority of the world of today and the forseeable future. The days of people being entertained by real people doing things that they might admire and/or aspire to are over. Machines and ready-made servings of the past do that now, when it's even wanted. More often than not, though, what's wanted is something, anything, that they can either laugh at and feel superior to or at some level identify with as something they themselves could do w/o too much effort. The trend has been in place for quite a while, but I fear that the point of no return has long been passed.

Extintion being the evolutionary process that it is, this ain't gonna happen all at once, nor all over, but the trend is obvious. We're dead, finished, obsolete, a relic of a culture and a mindset of a day gone by. Stay in the game, by all means, it's who we are and what we do, and Goddammit, we're GOOD at it, but realize how we fit into the overall picture.

Hate to be such a drag, but that's the way I see it.

[scottb]

Jazz Kat, while you're waiting on your copy of Boogaloo Sisters you can at least check out the Christmas tunes.

click here

[Soul Stream]

God, if we could only all go on strike for about a year and put everything back in perspective.

Nice sentiment, but about 20 years too late, unfortunately.

Face it - we're analog dinosaurs in a digital era. We and what we offer are no longer interesting, much less relevant, to the lifestyles and mindsets of the vast majority of the world of today and the forseeable future. The days of people being entertained by real people doing things that they might admire and/or aspire to are over. Machines and ready-made servings of the past do that now, when it's even wanted. More often than not, though, what's wanted is something, anything, that they can either laugh at and feel superior to or at some level identify with as something they themselves could do w/o too much effort. The trend has been in place for quite a while, but I fear that the point of no return has long been passed.

Extintion being the evolutionary process that it is, this ain't gonna happen all at once, nor all over, but the trend is obvious. We're dead, finished, obsolete, a relic of a culture and a mindset of a day gone by. Stay in the game, by all means, it's who we are and what we do, and Goddammit, we're GOOD at it, but realize how we fit into the overall picture.

Hate to be such a drag, but that's the way I see it.

I think the same way Jim to a degree. But, then again, when people do get a chance to see somebody doing something real and unique....they REALLY dig it. We are the ying to the robotic digital world's yang.

We might be better off than we imagine several years down the road. I feel a backlash might happen. Maybe just wishful thinking, but "keep hope alive!"

[JSngry]

Mike, I hope you're right, but I've been having those same "wait and see, the backlash is coming" sentiments for long enough now that I'm pretty sure that they're nothing more than delusions along the lines of those cats of the 60s who kept saying "THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK! THE BIG BANDS ARE COMING BACK!"

No, they weren't, and no, they didn't. They offered a last gasp or two, and then became museum pieces and/or oddities out of synch (but delightfully so) w/the rest of the world. Small group jazz is up next (front of the line, in fact) and live music in general is working its way forward, combing its hair so it'll look nice for the autopsy photo.

I may be wrong, I HOPE I'm wrong, but I'm not making any bets on it.

[scottb]

I think that backlash may not be too far fetched.

To a degree, American Idol has been somewhat of a backlash against the industry. The masses have voted in new stars that would have NEVER made it in the industry without that show. Hopefully, the industry is taking note of this and realizing that the average Joe (sorry Joe) does appreciate talent and is not as caught up in all the image and hype as they think. If the show didn't get their attention, maybe the sales achieved by Ruben and Clay and Kelly and probably Fantasia and even Huang (just kidding) just might.

[JSngry]

You're kidding about American Idol, right?

Tell me you are...

[Joe G]

I think that backlash may not be too far fetched.

To a degree, American Idol has been somewhat of a backlash against the industry. The masses have voted in new stars that would have NEVER made it in the industry without that show. Hopefully, the industry is taking note of this and realizing that the average Joe (sorry Joe) does appreciate talent and is not as caught up in all the image and hype as they think. If the show didn't get their attention, maybe the sales achieved by Ruben and Clay and Kelly and probably Fantasia and even Huang (just kidding) just might.

No offense taken.

The American Idol thing seems like a step in the wrong direction to me, as far as all this goes. Doesn't that fit in with what Sangrey was saying about people "wanting something that they can either laugh at and feel superior to or at some level identify with as something they themselves could do w/o too much effort" ?