Miles Davis Live at stolkholm?

[RudyC]

i jsut got it!! and it is absolutly amazing!!!!! we are studying it in our improv class and tranes solo on "on green dolphin street" and it is the craziest thing ever you can just hear the begining of his spiritual movement!! It is amazing!!!

other opions on this?!!? disscusion?!?!?

amazing

i love jazz!!!

[JSngry]

That whole tour was amazing, and all the recordings that have surfaced have been amazing on Trane's part.

See here for more detail: http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx Select "1960-1969" and take it from there.

If you like Stockholm, try Paris. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

[Guy Berger]

Those are cool recordings. Had those European fans even heard Giant Steps at that point? Because what Trane is playing is way beyond that, he's already looking ahead to "Chasin the Trane".

Guy

Edited March 23, 2005 by Guy Berger

[Guest che]

For me this is one of the best live recordings that Miles did, I listen to this often and it sounds great everytime. Coltrane left during this tour to set up his own group and Sonny Stitt joined the group.

I have the complete concert, which is four CD's, the first six tracks are with Coltrane, then he left and Stitt arrived and it is very good. The set I have also has a Swedish radio interview with Coltrane, in which he talked about his influences which include Sonny Rollins and he also talkes about his impending departure.

Che.

[Guest che]

You are right about Coltrane and his solo's I love the version of 'So What' on the album, which shows the group at their very best.

Che.

[Claude]

I agree that the Stockholm recordings are amazing, mainly those with Coltrane. As far as Miles and the rest of the band are concerned, there's not that much to discover, although the playing is on the highest level.

You should also get the cheap Laserlight 2CD set with the Paris concert of March 1960, it has the same Coltrane inventiveness, plus the Paris audience actively expressing it's very differing appreciations of this

http://www.deltamusic.de/index.php?id=28&L...n=4006408361305

Edited March 23, 2005 by Claude

[Clunky]

plus the Paris audience actively expressing it's very differing appreciation of this

what's with the way Parisean audiences react , I don't know this set but the Jimmy Giuffre set has loads of shouting from the audience- unclear if it's hostile or appreciative- must have been pretty intimidating for the performers !!!

[Daniel A]

The two disc set Claude mentions is one of the most affecting live recordings I've heard, and I think it surpasses the Stockholm set in this regard. I have not heard the Giuffre set ( ) but I can imagine Coltrane's playing really perplexed the audience. Poster Brownie was there I believe, I think I remember his talking about the atmosphere at that concert in an old thread here.

Edited March 23, 2005 by Daniel A

[Stereojack]

Coltrane left during this tour to set up his own group and Sonny Stitt joined the group.

I have the complete concert, which is four CD's, the first six tracks are with Coltrane, then he left and Stitt arrived and it is very good.

For the record, Trane did not leave during the tour. The tour with Stitt was in October, 7 months after the tour with Trane.

Several concerts from these tours have been issued over the years, and they are all pretty amazing!

[Guest che]

Full title: In Stockholm 1960 Complete With John Coltrane & Sonny Stitt. Personnel: Miles Davis (trumpet); Sonny Stitt (alto & tenor saxophones); John Coltrane (tenor saxophone); Wynton Kelly (piano); Paul Chambers (bass); Jimmy Cobb (drums). Recorded live at the Concert Hall, Stockholm, Sweden on March 22 & October 13, 1960. Includes liner notes by Jan Lohmann. Digitally remastered by Torbjorn Samuelsson (Digitalfabriken). The Swedish label Dragon released two Miles Davis Quintet live shows in their entirety on this deluxe three-CD set. This was a unique time for Miles--his music was in the transitional period between playing standards over given chord patterns ("On Green Dolphin Street") and improvising more freely with the modal approach ("So What,""All Blues") that would be so influential in '60s and '70s jazz and experimental rock. John Coltrane was nearing the end of his stay with Miles' band. Many would try to fill his shoes, including alto & tenor sax legend Sonny Stitt. The fact that this line-up would never record in the studio makes this set all the more valuable. All the players are at their peaks here, and the sound quality, though not up to today's digital standards, is excellent (you can feel Chambers' bass playing). Fans of Miles, Trane, Stitt and outstanding jazz rejoice

Legendary rare live recordings from Miles Davis' 'Kind of Blue' era with John Coltrane, Sonny Stitt, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers, & Jimmy Cobb.

This is the version I have with an extra disc

Che.

[Guest che]

So Coltrane left before the October 13th Concert?

Che.

[king ubu]

I'm quite sure they boo Giuffre, too... I got a George Russell boot from Paris that is even worse. Though Giuffre comes up with some tongue in cheek announcements... at one point he tells the audience that if they didn't like the previous tune, they'll like the next one even less

I'm also slightly preferring the Paris concert, but then I had that for years when I finally tracked down the Dragon set with the Stockholm concerts.

Seems it was during this tour Trane was given his soprano by Miles (I think the the 4CD release I have of the Paris concerts has a photo inside with Trane holding a soprano - not sure if this is true or some kind of myth, though).

And on the "Giant Steps" question: I don't really know, but the notes of said 4CD set say no, that they knew the Prestige discs, and thus were expecting a totally different (INDEED!) Trane than what they got.

****took that 4CD set out of the shelf now (my own private anti-laziness campaign)****

There is one long article from Jazz Magazine, plus shorter ones from Combat and excerpts from two more, giving info on the debate that started with that concert. The most interesting thing about the booklet, though, I find to be the comments of several musicians who had been there that night (these were in Jazz Magazine, too):

Some quotes (incomplete):

Stéphane Grappelli:

"... Coltrane m'a vivement impressionné mais ne m'a pas touché comme venait de le faire Oscar Peterson. Je l'admire beaucoup d'avoir eu le coeur de continuer à jouer sous les lazzis et les imprécations d'un public grossier et irrespectueux. ..." (he then goes on explaining that German audiences are able to remain quiet and polite even if they dislike the music... that changed, at Jazzfest Berlin, though... in the late Seventies Carla Bley performed a track called "Boo to you too" in Berlin, dedicated to the dedicated boo-ers in the Berlin audience...)

Then René Urtreger, who obviously loved it:

"J'aime l'inhabituel. Coltrane est inhabituel dans ce sens qu'il joue - ou essaie de jouer - quelque chose qui lui est particulier et par là même différent, tout en étant purement jazz. Même si Coltrane a joué des choses inachevées, voire un peu bizarres (il me faudrait réécouter la bande du concert), sa conception me plaît profondément.

J'ai réellement découvert Coltrane en l'écoutant en direct."

(This is the complete quote. I like the part "ou essaie de jouer" - shows how much Urtreger understood, because this really was the period where Trane seemingly played on and on if no one stopped him...)

Daniel Humair:

"... Le public était venu pour entendre ce qu'il connaissait des disques et a été surpris, voire contrarié d'entendre ce à quoi il n'avait pas été préparé. Ce n'est pas une raison pour manifester si grossièrement; j'ai assité aux concert du quintette à Berlin: les prestations de Coltrane ont choqué quelques auditeurs; ceux-ci ont discrètement quitté la salle. N'est-ce pas une attitude plus intelligent que de pousser des hurlement de sauvages?

Pour en venir plus directement à Coltrane, j'aime beaucoup ses disques, mais l'audition directe a provoqué en moi un véritable choc. ..."

Michel Hausser (wasn't the *other* socialist working together with Lafitte against Americans getting gigs?):

"Connaîssant et appréciant les disques de John Coltrane, j'avoue avoir été surpris par sa façon de jouer à l'Olympia, que j'ai trouvée laide et qui - à mon avis - aurait une fâcheuse tendance à suivre la voie tracée par le saxophoniste <plastique> Ornette Coleman. ..."

There's more in that booklet, but I'm too lazy to type up more. Pretty funny, though!

[king ubu]

So Coltrane left before the October 13th Concert?

Che.

Miles made two tours through Europe in 1960, one in March, one in October, form both there are recordings. As far as I know, Coltrane left immediately after the band's return to the US at the end of the March tour.

And on the Dragon set: I never heard of a 3CD version, I think there's just the 4CD version (with one and bit CDs from the Trane concert and all the rest from the Stitt concert).

[Rooster_Ties]

I have the Dragon 4CD set, and agree that Trane really goes for broke on nearly every cut. But in some ways, I almost prefer the later concert with Stitt, if only because Miles really had to step up to the plate more, given Trane's absence. I find Miles to be playing harder and more aggressively on the date with Stitt, where he lays back a bit on the earlier date with Trane (since Trane is all fireworks). Both are outstanding concerts, though, highly recommended.

[Daniel A]

The Swedish label Dragon released two Miles Davis Quintet live shows in their entirety on this deluxe three-CD set.

The Dragon CD release (cat.no. DRCD 228-4) was always 4 CDs, I believe. Contrary to what has been stated sometimes it's still available, for example from swedishmusicshop.com

http://www.mic.stim.se/cda/CDs.nsf/wwwcds/...FB?opendocument

The price for the 4 CD set is 55 USD, and international shipping for 1-5 CDs quoted as rather modest 6 USD.

[Daniel A]

I type really slow - two posts were made meanwhile!

I think the confusion regarding the number of discs stems from the fact that the two concerts were initially available on two double-LP sets, and the four CD box contained one CD's worth of extra material.

[JSngry]

Trane made that 1960 tour "under protest". He did not want to play with Miles then, or with anybody else other than his own band, which he was in the process of forming. Miles "cajoled" (some say bullied) him into making one final swing with him.

According to several sources, Trane was very dark that entire tour, waiting for it to be over so he could get back home and get on with his own doings. Paris was the opening gig of the tour, and Trane's playing here is some of the rawest and most fervid he ever did, including his 65-67 things.

Whether it was due to the audience reaction, Miles or somebody else telling him to chill out just a little bit, or just some internal editing, none of the other recordings from this tour show Trane playing like he did in Paris, not even the one where Miles didn't make the gig.

Trane played spectacularly on all of these other dates, but Paris is something else entirely.

[MartyJazz]

That whole tour was amazing, and all the recordings that have surfaced have been amazing on Trane's part.

See here for more detail: http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx Select "1960-1969" and take it from there.

If you like Stockholm, try Paris. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Paris is great, but what is truly disconcerting on that recording is the fact that so many of the Parisians in attendance were not ready nor receptive to what Coltrane was doing. As a result the listener has to put up with very audible hissing and catcalls emanating from the jazz conservatives in the audience. The Stockholm concert, OTOH, has better fidelity and nothing in the way of adversarial "competition" from the audience. As such, the Stockholm is a much more comfortable and better listening experience, IMO.

On an another note, I recall reading an interview of Branford Marsalis many years ago, when he was still musical director for Leno and had achieved name recognition among jazz fans and the public at large. I'm paraphrasing here but the gist is that when the interviewer asked BM whether he felt "satisfied" at this point in his career, Marsalis replied, "Have you ever heard Coltrane with Miles in Stockholm"? I thought that was a marvelous way of saying that, on a purely musical basis, he (Marsalis) still had much to look up to.

[Guest che]

So Coltrane left before the October 13th Concert?

Che.

Miles made two tours through Europe in 1960, one in March, one in October, form both there are recordings. As far as I know, Coltrane left immediately after the band's return to the US at the end of the March tour.

And on the Dragon set: I never heard of a 3CD version, I think there's just the 4CD version (with one and bit CDs from the Trane concert and all the rest from the Stitt concert).

The four CD set that I have (Dragon) has Coltrane on the first CD (Six tracks) plus the interviewt the rest is with Stitt.

Che.

[Dave James]

A couple of thoughts on this one. With regard to the audience reaction in Paris, I think it's important to consider this in the context of the time. I'm sure people showed up expecting to hear of Davis and Coltrane what they'd heard on their records. When that didn't happen, the reaction on the part of some of the crowd was predictable. Weren't there other instances of Miles getting the raspberry in France? I thought I read someplace that the material he chose to perform at times in Montreaux was not well received. And I know for a fact, that Stevie Ray Vaughn was almost booed off the stage the first time he appeared at that festival. France can be a tough room to play.

With regard to the Stockholm sessions on Dragon, let's not overlook the contributions of Wynton Kelly. I personally think this is some of his very best playing.

Up over and out.

[couw]

I thought I read someplace that the material he chose to perform at times in Montreaux was not well received. And I know for a fact, that Stevie Ray Vaughn was almost booed off the stage the first time he appeared at that festival. France can be a tough room to play.

You're thinking of the wrong side of the lake. It is Ubu who leads his wild hordes to boo the performers off the Montreux stage every year.

[king ubu]

I thought I read someplace that the material he chose to perform at times in Montreaux was not well received.  And I know for a fact, that Stevie Ray Vaughn was almost booed off the stage the first time he appeared at that festival.  France can be a tough room to play.

You're thinking of the wrong side of the lake. It is Ubu who leads his wild hordes to boo the performers off the Montreux stage every year.

sure, only I never was there so far... and don't feel the need to do anything against that. It turned into a immensely commercial event with 10% or less jazz (though they keep that in their name, the "jazz"-etiquette still sells... you know, it's so sophisticated!).

on Miles - I wonder if no one reads French around here? Humair states just what Dave posted: people came expecting to hear the music they knew from the LPs (as far back as "Round About Midnight") and were shocked by what they came to actually hear. Some though, were able to dig, for instance our friend René Urtreger

[MartyJazz]

Well, Urtreger is a musician who played with Miles when the latter toured Europe in late '56. As such, he would be expected to dig what he was hearing, and if not, he would not hiss or boo (nor would any other musician for that matter). I refuse to make excuses for the Parisian audience at that time. We all expect to hear some of what we're accustomed to when we come to a music concert, but the serious jazz fan expects to be challenged, particularly by younger musicians as Coltrane certainly was at that time. To boo a serious musician is unforgivable to my way of thinking.

A case in point. At the tender age of 21, I saw Coltrane at the Village Vanguard in December 1966. My only Trane records at the time, were STARDUST (Prestige) and COLTRANE'S SOUND (Atlantic). That's what I expected to hear. I don't have to tell anyone here that when Pharoah, Alice, Jimmy and Rashied came on stage alongside Trane, I heard something entirely different and, to this day, it remains music that is still quite alien to me. Yet I certainly did not boo, nor did anyone else in the audience that night, although quite a few did walk out. At the very least, when one knows that the person on stage is an artist (based on past performances, recordings, etc.), he or she deserves respect.

Edited March 23, 2005 by MartyJazz

[kh1958]

I have the Dragon 4CD set, and agree that Trane really goes for broke on nearly every cut. But in some ways, I almost prefer the later concert with Stitt, if only because Miles really had to step up to the plate more, given Trane's absence. I find Miles to be playing harder and more aggressively on the date with Stitt, where he lays back a bit on the earlier date with Trane (since Trane is all fireworks). Both are outstanding concerts, though, highly recommended.

The Stitt concert sounds like it occurred ten years before the Coltrane concert.

[Rooster_Ties]

I have the Dragon 4CD set, and agree that Trane really goes for broke on nearly every cut.  But in some ways, I almost prefer the later concert with Stitt, if only because Miles really had to step up to the plate more, given Trane's absence.  I find Miles to be playing harder and more aggressively on the date with Stitt, where he lays back a bit on the earlier date with Trane (since Trane is all fireworks).  Both are outstanding concerts, though, highly recommended.

The Stitt concert sounds like it occurred ten years before the Coltrane concert.

Yes and no. When you just compare Trane with Stitt, probably yes. But I think Miles' playing is more advanced on the 2nd date (meaning the one with Stitt).

Or at least that's my memory of it -- been at least six months since I've listened to any of this material. Hafta try to dig it out soon.