Christiern Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Thanks, Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinthopson Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 My very first lp was the Cartnegie Hall concert. I wore it out. I then bought a later lp version which completely changed the order of the show. It plugged in the small group number all over the place rether than leaving them in the original order. I have delayed getting a new cd of the concert because I've heard mixed reports. What would you all recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Clint, did you perchance give your worn-out discs to Phil Schaap before Columbia dumped him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 well, I only did one cut - one thing we should remember, and give Schaap credit for, is that the initial transfers were very good - this is vital, because without that even the best restoration work is limited - I tend to be conservative on these things, but not as conservative as Schaap - I always leave some surface noise, as it is impossible to eliminate without losing the upper frequencies and presence and space - and you would be surprised how much recorded info there is, even on very old recordings - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinthopson Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Clint, did you perchance give your worn-out discs to Phil Schaap before Columbia dumped him? I wondered what happened to those discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Allen - I received the disc today and just gave it a listen. Obviously the first track is the Phil Schaap reissue. I have to say I like the 2nd of the three tracks the best. the third doesn't have the highs the 2nd does and the rhythm section jumps out better on the 2nd track. I think I can also hear better separation on the horns/reeds on the 2nd track as opposed to the 3rd. Separation is good on the 1st track too, but the lower noise level on the 2nd track makes it more apparent for me. Thanks for letting me participate in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 (edited) By seperation, I mean in the sense of being able to discern individual section voices as opposed to just, for example, a trumpet sectiom. This is just to clarify to anyone who's wondering - I'm NOT hearing stereo where there isn't any. Edited April 8, 2005 by Harold_Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Weighing in late. Schaap may be an idiot, don't really know anything about him personally, but as far as his version of the Carnegie Hall stuff - I like it a lot, and disliked the earlier CD - flat as a pancake. Guess my ears are screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 (edited) what you are hearing as separation has a lot to do with instruments at different frequencies; the space in a recording is really the separation and preservation of different frequencies. Chances are that the more high frequenices left in , the more space (or air) you will hear between instruments or sections - Edited April 9, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 We have just spotted Schaap and, psychic me, I am telling him "That's the guy's gonna mess up your concert tapes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Holy sh**, I can't believe I forgot to weigh in on the "remastered" disc, as produced by Allen. My humblest apologies! Obviously, I don't have it at work, and I don't want to put off waiting until I get home, cuz then another three months'll pass by before I remember that I forgot to comment on 'em. The thing that stands out the most is how warm the recording sounded, and the bass sounded so much more prominent (quite a risk, when you consider that Benny’s brother supposedly wasn’t that good to begin with. I don’t know, though; I thought he swung alright). If there was any surface noise, I barely noticed it. Great job, Allen. I only wish I could hear you rework the whole CD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 thanks - it takes a little work, but CEDAR is a powerful and user-friendly tool. It also helps to understand EQ and, last but not least, you need a reliable set of monitors - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Allen, I just realized that I have also been remiss. I recall hearing a distinct improvement, but will listen again to be more specific. Sorry to have taken so long--thanks for jarring my memory, Big Al. BTW, I, too, wish you could de-Schaap the whole CD. Somebody on the Hoffman board was complaining about his having "ruined" a reissue--why has it taken so long for people to discover (or bring up the fact) that his ears are clogged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 not a problem Chris - I'd be happy to re-do the whole thing, but for some reason Sony and Phil are not asking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZangpo2 Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 There are several threads on this subject. I posted this question in another thread but realized afterwards that the thread title referred to Ellington at Newport, not Goodman at Carnegie Hall. So I'm repeating my question here. Apologies for the duplicate posts. Here's my question: those who've compared versions seem to agree that the Definitive and Avid issues are both better than the Sony. But between the Definitive and Avid issues themselves, which is better? Has anyone heard both? Please let me know before I spend more $$$ on this music!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I'm reading this stuff about this Schaap chap and so pulled out my copy of the CD and found it was "restored" and "premastered" by a Bjorn Almstedt using the same CEDAR software Allen uses and issued in 2006 on the Jasmine label -- after this thread had been put to bed. It sounds great to me, but I was wondering if Allen (or anyone else) had you heard this version, and if so what are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazaro Vega Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 That's the one I want to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Has there ever been an apology from Phil or Columbia? They really ought to offer a refund, trade-in, or something palatable. A lawsuit from the Goodman estate might also not be out of order. I had given away my set (for which I myself ought to apologize to a friend), but I was subsequently punished when I ordered what I thought was a restored release and found that it was that Schaap abomination. As you can see, I never broke the skin-wrap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I love the "Definitive" version, but I've never heard the "Avid" version. The "Definitive" version is aptly named, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 (edited) This just in from George Avakian. Dear Chris – Just received word that Schaap made two major goofs in his Goodman Carnegie Hall mastering – he omitted nearly 30 minutes of I Got Rhythm and there is a groove skip near the end of Buck Clayton’s third chorus on Honeysuckle Rose – inexplicable since he presumably used Howard Scott’s tapes that Benny had given Howard. But anything can happen with Schaap. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx* George *Last sentence witheld by CA BTW, here's a link to a pertinent 3-month-old entry on my blog. Edited January 26, 2010 by Christiern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 BTW, here's a link to a pertinent 3-month-old entry on my blog. Link doesn't work, Chris. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 That's odd. I just clicked on it in your response, and it took me right there! Try again. BTW do I owe Barbara Woodhouse to you? If so, thanks and please note that I made the change. Which gives me an opportunity to test another link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Does any cd release of the concert contain the missing 30 minutes of I Got Rhythm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 3 minutes I can buy. 30 minutes?!? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 30 seconds I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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