paul secor Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 From the mid 1940's to the mid 1950's the tenor sax was to r&b records what the guitar became later on to rock n roll records. Play an r&b record from that era and there's a good chance you'll find a tenor sax break or solo. It wasn't long before the tenor players stepped out to make records under their own name. Red Prysock, Sam "The Man" Taylor, Hal "Cornbread" Singer, Joe Houston, Willis Jackson, Jimmy Forrest and dozens more stepped into the limelight. King Curtis carried the tradition on through the 1960's. And then there were the alto players - Louis Jordan, Earl Bostic, Tab Smith - who set the stage for Junior Walker in the 60's. Anyway, I thought that it was time for the r&b tenor cats to have a thread of their own. If you have a favorite, or even just a solo that has always hit you as perfect, here's the place to let us know. I'll open up with a tenor player who perhaps wasn't as well known as some others, but who deserves attention - Julian Dash. Julian Dash is perhaps best known as the co-composer of "Tuxedo Junction", for his work with the Erskine Hawkins band, and for his recordings on Buck Clayton's Jam Session LPs. However, he also made a series of r&b records under his own name that are well worth seeking out and listening to. He was never a true r&b "honker" (though occasionally he would throw one in during a solo). His records tended to be a combination of medium to uptempo r&b, swing, blues, and ballads - along with a few Latin influenced tunes. Julian Dash never lost his Chu Berry (his acknowledged favorite) influenced sound, but when he made an r&b record, it was just that - not watered down jazz or uptempo pop. I find that his r&b recordings are easier to listen to in one sitting than many r&b tenorists' collections are. His records have such a variety to them (even though he usually recorded with small 5 to 7 piece groups) that I never have a sense of repetitious boredom when I listen to them. On the other hand, he never achieved the commercial success that other, perhaps more one sided, tenor stylists did. I realize that his records, along with other r&b tenor records, were meant to be listened to as singles, not as CDs, but it's to his credit that his recordings are listenable as a collection. Julian Dash's r&b recordings (originally on Mello-Roll, Sittin' In With, Mercury, and Vee-Jay) are most easily found on two Blue Moon releases - Julian Dash 1950-1953 (Blue Moon 1050) and Blue Moon 1052, which combines six Dash tracks with recordings by Eddie Chamblee and Joe Thomas. Vee-Jay also issued four cuts by Julian Dash (found on the second Blue Moon) on a now oop CD, Sax Appeal. I know that Blue Moon is a bootleg outfit, but no one seems to have been in any hurry to reissue Julian Dash's r&b work, so they're the only game in town, short of finding the original 78's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Great idea for a thread. Don't forget Buddy Tate in this context, and no mention of Jack McVea - both transitional fingures but........... Now I hope the following doesn't highjack the thread, but I'm a big Julian Dash fan too and think it is a shame his MJR lp has not been reissued. I think it is a "classic". He's also a fine contributor (in tandem with Tate) to a Jay McShann date for MJR (this one is available). Now back the original topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Maxwell Davis has always been a favorite of mine from this period--you can hear a lot of his work on the Charles Brown and Amos Milburn Mosaics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) I have a real fondeness of Red Prysock and Willis Jackson. A guy to look for also is Paul "Bad" Bascomb. I picked up a Delmark title by him many years ago that I still reach for. I don't know if he recorded as a leader but one of the featured tenors with Tiny Bradshaw, in addition to Red Prysock (see Soft) was Rufus "Nose" Gore. Of course anything, pretty much, by Tiny Bradshaw will provide some honking, booting tenor. Through the years I've grabbed most of Prysock's work on Mercury lp and some 45's. Saxophonograph did a nice Willis Jackson 50's RnB lp in the '80's. I think some of that material may now by out on Delmark as are several fine Tab Smith releases with Tab doubling alto and tenor. A great release in this vein is the Red Prysock/Sil Austin lp Battle Royal. I heard a story that Prysock took Austin out the night before the session and got him loaded. Side A features an uptempo sax battle with lots of 4's at teh end and each player rolling out his favorite licks. That's followed on side a by a slow blues that I think would make a great Blind Fold test item since each player steps out of the honkin persona somewhat (he doesn't solo but Kenny Burrell is on this session). Side B is a side long Take The A Train. It's one of those records that I always lsiten to side A. Edited March 30, 2005 by Tom in RI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Speaking of King Curtis, his "cross-over" jazz album, THE NEW SCENE is really sweet! In some cases the line between R & B and jazz is kinda blurred. I was in the army with Maceo Parker, the great R & B alto player from James Brown's band. After work, in the dayroom, he and other players would play nothing but jazz, from Monk to Bird and back. I mean Maceo could flat out play! Just great jam sessions into the a.m. Then when the James Brown Revue came to town, there he would be onstage ripping some of the fiercest R & B licks you ever heard. I understand that even Coltrane used to be a "bar walker". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Man alive, I would really like to hear that Julian Dash stuff!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Favorite R&B tenor solo? Easy - Fathead on "Greenbacks". Perfection in 12 bars. Even if it was on bari. This is gonna be a fun thread, I hope. Very anxious to read others comments and suggestions. Julian Dash is on the radar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 This is gonna be a fun thread, I hope. Very anxious to read others comments and suggestions. Julian Dash is on the radar! Great last name, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Clem is right! Al Sears is The Man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Who was the tenor player on Bullmoose Jackson's "Big Ten Inch"? Wasn't Jackson, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphie_boy Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Earl Bostic was great! I like Tab Smith too. Also Paul Bascomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Noble "The Thin Man" Watts' "Hard Times". Great record. I think it's Lee Allen on Amos Milburn's New Orleans version of "Chicken Shack". I dig Maxwell Davis on the original too, and on "Let's Have A Party". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Who was the tenor player on Bullmoose Jackson's "Big Ten Inch"? It was Red Prysock, a contributor to many King sessions. My favorites are Sam "The Man" Taylor and Plas Johnson, both of whom played on hundreds of records in all styles. Taylor's "Cloudburst", originally issued as by "Claude Cloud" on MGM is a classic. Sil Austin was another great honker - made several great LP's for Mercury (as did Prysock). If I have to pick an all time favorite R&B tenor solo, it'd have to be Bill Doggett's "Honky Tonk", featuring Clifford Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 I know some of you have philosophical objections to Proper, but this is one of their better boxes imo... http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&t...10:bufm963okepo Terrific sampler with Wild Bill Moore, Paul Williams, Eddie Chamblee, Lee Allen, Julian Dash, and many others, both big names and small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Yep, Ace and Bear Family are pretty good labels too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) A nice recent big sax date is the Tri Saxual Soul Champs on Black Top from 1989 featuring Sil Austin, Grady Fats Jackson, and Kaz Kazanoff (also Snooks Eaglin contributing on some tracks). Half.com has this for cheap (less than $5.00). Sam Taylor's Cloudburst, cited by Stereo Jack, was released on the 1999 release that was part of Verve's Swingsation series. Sadly (personal rant coming), most of the tracks are marred by overdubs of Alan Freed providing vocal exhortations and percussion (he rings a bell). Ok, so maybe its not tantamount to drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa but I can't listen to it. Fortunately I have a vinyl that's in ok shape. Has anyone heard The Return of the Thin Man, by Noble Watts? Edited March 30, 2005 by Tom in RI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 The first to come to my mind are David Van Dyke and Red Prysock on Wynonie Harris' single "Quiet Whisky" - all there is to say in a few bars. I like these guys much better when they had to squeeze everything they wanted to say into a short chorus - on longer sax solo features they often got lost in the exitement. Negative high point: "Whistlin' Joe" by whatwashisname? Al Sears was great, Big jay McNeely - there are plenty good honkers, but they should be taken in small doses to best effect. In the long run, some jazz honkers with R&B inflections win the game - Arnett Cobb, Gene Ammons, Fathead - King Curtis was great, check out his Prestige jazz sides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 That Red Prysock may be the unsung hero of that style ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 For the curious: The Horn Blows: Red Prysock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Another fabulous source for tenor sax dominated rockin good tunes is the Buddy Johnson Orch. I was lucky to pick up the Bear Family Buddy & Ella Johnson box set which covers from 1953-1962. Featured tenors include David Van Dyke, Purvis Henson and Johnny Burdine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 it's like sticking yr hand in the pirahna tank or whatever-- FUCK Proper, RDK... there are plenty of labels out there who do well produced, annotated albums & compilations of this material & if imperfect wrt to their payment to the artists (bc of the way the biz was at the time), they do, at least show more care to us, the fans, the enthusiasts, the scholars, the heps, the zoot suiters & the goddamn coooooooooooooooooooooooooool cats. Give it a fuckin' rest, my darlin' Clem. Your hypocrisy is killin' us here. You seem to have no problem dealin' in unreleased and/or bootleg recordings and you get all moist whenever a booted Sam Fuller flick comes your way. Fair enough - I understand that. But what the hell? Joop kick your dog once or something? You repeatedly sing the praises of other Eurolabels who take the same advantage of their more liberal p.d. laws yet you refuse to give the Proper due. They do nothing that JSP or so many others don't. Yeah, they're not as lavish as Bear, but neither are they as complete or as pricey - and they aren't meant to be. For the niche they fill, they fill it mighty well - and affordably. You all but admit to having no clue as to their packaging and booklets, which are remarkably well-produced - better, by far, than JSP for example - and you're quick to excuse ("imperfect?" gmafb) the exact same sins cast by all those Clem-approved labels. Take a gander at the track listing for Big Horns and tell me where else to find some of those tracks. Or take a look at their Nazi-jazz box. Nothing else like it. I know what I'm buying - warts and all - but dude the more you moan about Proper the more you expose yourself as some fuckin' hypocrite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Has anyone heard The Return of the Thin Man, by Noble Watts? I bought it when it came out. I listened once or twice and haven't revisited it. At the time I was somewhat disapointed. The Thin Man sounded as if his chops were down and the band was a very ordinary and contempary sounding "modern" blues band. That's how I felt at that time, but I wouldn't mind giving a relisten now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 If I have to pick an all time favorite R&B tenor solo, it'd have to be Bill Doggett's "Honky Tonk", featuring Clifford Scott. If we were only limited to one - I guess this is it! This solo became a staple. A lot of tenor players, even (espescially?) on the lounge band circuit of the late 50s and early 60s, knew it note for note and could deliver it with amazing accuracy and conviction. Even King Curtis recorded it 3 times (that I know of), In chronological order: Prestige cd NIGHT TRAIN. It has 2 lps - one of which is the reissue of OLD GOLD. Billy Butler from the original record by Bill Doggett is on board as is Jack McDuff. Very close to the original and very nice. Capitol version (on the Bear Family box). Short version. but Curtis does his routine of modulating into G from F for the tenor solo. Nice. Atco Version: EVERYBODY'S TALKIN' lp. Great version. Curtis overdubbed into a trio on the head- Cornell takes his own solo (not the Billy Butler) and sounds ON THE MONEY - Curtis modulates into G for a great delivery of the Clifford Scott solo. Great Record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Who was the tenor player on Bullmoose Jackson's "Big Ten Inch"? Wasn't Jackson, iirc. I believe that Stereojack is correct. Rufus Gore is also listed as playing tenor on this date, but the soloist sounds like Red Prysock. Just adding a few tidbits about Bullmoose Jackson: He recorded with a wide variety of saxophonists. In addition to some of the usual suspects -Sam "The Man" Taylor, Big John Greer, and Red Prysock - Charlie Rouse, Frank Wess, Bennie Golson, and Herb Geller all recorded with Bull Moose Jackson. That's not totally unusual. Jazzmen routinely recorded on r&b sessions in the 50's, and Tadd Dameron, Johnny Coles, Joe Wilder, Sir Charles Thompson, Jymie Merritt, and Jo Jones are to be found in his discography. However, it's interesting to hear, for example, Herb Geller, solo on "Let Me Love You All Night Long" (I'm pretty sure it's he, though a second altoist - Snooky Hulbert - is listed on this date also) or to hear Charlie Rouse solo on "Hodge Podge". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted March 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 That Red Prysock may be the unsung hero of that style ... And as you said earlier, Mike, honkers' records should be taken in small doses. When I used to collect 45's, I loved Red Prysock records like "Hand Clappin'", "Zip", and "Shoe String". And I listened to them one side at a time, as they were meant to be heard. But listening to a full Red Prysock CD is like listening to Pharoah Sanders blow on "Preview" from the Jazz Composer's Orchestra a dozen times in a row. I don't recommend doing either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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