This Thom Crooze debacle...

[BERIGAN]

I would have stuck with Mimi Rogers.

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Yep!

[kinuta]

For the DOITY DOITY TROOTH about L. Ron Hubbard, check this out, a bio that the Scientologists prevented being published, but which some brave soul posted on the net.

Read it and weep: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/My Webpage

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Thanks for the link. I've been wanting to read this for ages.

[ejp626]

My understanding of it was that it's more carrot than stick: that the celebrities don't have to do most of the expensive garbage that Scientology demands of its followers in exchange for being public faces of the cult that people can admire. But I could be wrong about this.

That may be true, though according to Travolta, he gained fame after joining Scientology, including his Vinny role, so he certainly would not have been in a position to opt out at that point. Don't know about the other celebs.

Has anyone seen Bowfinger -- the Steve Martin/Eddie Murphy flick? It's actually pretty funny (even funnier now that Chappelle has clued us in that Murphy does have a brother) and it has a major slam of some Hollywood cult that is obviously Scientology.

[jazzbo]

Bowfinger, yes, quite an insightful little Scientologist parody.

I lived with Scientologists in a large house that was rented out room by room for a few years. I know more than I want to about Scientology. I've seen it mess with some friends. I've even had some stuff, like a Wurlitzer electric piano and a few instrument amps, ripped off by Scientologists that spend so much time at the "org" that they could not afford to live honestly, there's not enough hours in the day to earn an income.

And when you get right down to it, it's as mentioned above a paramilitary outfit that protects a select few, and their "religion" is gnostic stuff as old as the hills dressed up in pseudo-science fiction trappings.

Just don't let them take over China as I think they want to!

[Kalo]

Check this out: http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2005/06/2...uise/index.html

[nmorin]

I will never understand how intelligent people can fall for that crap--didn't it all begin as a joke or a dare by Mother Hubbard?

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A bet over drinks with fellow (although much better) SF writer Robert Heinlein, I've heard...

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I thought it was over drinks with Harlan Ellison.

[nmorin]

Trolling around the web I found this:

(http://www.islets.net/faq.html#Anchor-Was-47857)

Was Ellison really there when L. Ron Hubbard invented Scientology?

Excerpted from a posting on the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup, 2 May 1995:

The following excerpt was taken from a magazine called "Saturday Evening Wings," which was printed for awhile in the 1970s. "Wings" described itself as "Wings -- The New Age Satire Magazine". The issue this excerpt was taken from was the Nov.-Dec. '78 issue. It is of great interest, because Harlan Ellison, a rather famous science fiction writer, claims to have been present the night L. Ron Hubbard decided to write "Dianetics."

On Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard:

Ellison: Scientology is bullshit! Man, I was there the night L. Ron Hubbard invented it, for Christ Sakes!

I was sitting in a room with L. Ron Hubbard and a bunch of other science fiction writers. L. Ron Hubbard was famous among science fiction writers because he was the first one to have an electric typewriter.

Wings: He claimed to have written "Dianetics" in a weekend, and nobody can deny it.

Ellison: That's true. He wrote "Dianetics" in one weekend, and you know how he used to write? He used to take a roll of white paper, like paper you wrap fish in. He had it on the wall, and he would roll it into the typewriter and he would begin typing. When he was done, he would tear it off and leave it as one whole long novel.

We were sitting around one night. ... who else was there? Alfred Bester, and Cyril Kornbluth, and Lester Del Rey, and Ron Hubbard, who was making a penny a word, and had been for years. And he said "This bullshit's got to stop!" He says, "I gotta get money." He says, "I want to get rich".

Wings: He is also supposed to have said on that same night: "The question is not how to make a million dollars, but how to keep it."

Ellison: Right. And somebody said, "why don't you invent a new religion? They're always big." We were clowning! You know, "Become Elmer Gantry! You'll make a fortune!" He says, "I'm going to do it." Sat down, stole a little bit from Freud, stole a little bit from Jung, a little bit from Alder, a little bit of encounter therapy, pre-Janov Primal Screaming, took all that bullshit, threw it all together, invented a few new words, because he was a science fiction writer, you know, "engrams" and "regression", all that bullshit. And then he conned John Campbell, who was crazy as a thousand battlefields. I mean, he believed any goddamned thing. He really believed blacks were inferior. I mean he really believed that. He was also very nervous when I was in his office because I was a Jew. You know, he was afraid maybe I would spring horns or something.

Anyhow, the way he conned John was that he had J. A. Winter, who was a doctor, who was a close friend of John's, and he got him to run this article on Dianetics, the new science of mental health.

Wings: Dianometry was the first article, I believe.

Ellison: Right. And science fiction fans will go for any goddamm thing. They'll believe anything, man, they will believe in the abominable snowman and the Bermuda Triangle, in Pyramid Power, in EST, in Scientology, in the Second Coming, they'll believe in any goddamm thing, they don't give a shit. They go to see "Star Wars"; they think it is for real!

So science fiction fans picked it up, they began proselytizing, he started making money, when he had made enough money he was able to spread out a little more, then he got more cuckoos, you know, pre-Charlie Manson assholes that had no place else to go, and he began talking to these loons as if "Dianetics" really meant something. Then he wanted to get tax-exempt status, so he called it "The Church of Scientology".

Now, they've gotten so big that they own property all over the country, and it is impossible to stop it. They infiltrated the FBI, they infiltrated the tax department, ... the funny thing is, Ron Hubbard and I still occasionally communicate with each other. Every once in a while, a couple or three times a year, we exchange letters. And I write to him, you know, and I say, "Hey Ron, when is this bullshit going to cease? These cuckoos are really driving me crazy! They come around the house with pamphlets!" And he writes me back, and he says, "It's the good work, it's the good work."

It's all very funny stuff. He was going to write a new story for me for the last "Dangerous Visions", but I guess he got too busy counting his money. I don't know.

[Jim Alfredson]

It's pretty cool that you can just claim you're a church and get tax exempt status. Watch out, folks, I'm about to declare this place The Church of the Organissimo Forumtology.

[wesbed]

The Church of the Organissimo Forumtology

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This is a cool name.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well, now you'll never be able to tour Germany.

Mike

[7/4]

He can read minds!

[jazzbo]

It's not as easy as it looks. . . Hubbard et al battled the government for years about the status of the "methodology" as a "religion" and as far as I know they may still be doing so.

[jazzbo]

He can read minds!

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Interesting article.

[AmirBagachelles]

I maintain (my wife will attest) that some lucky few starting a successful new religion will be the biggest reality TV series yet. Be patient, it all comes true on TV eventually.

[take5]

Oh yeah, wasn't Chick Corea's Scientology proselytizing at least partly to blame for the breakup of Circle?

Yes. Scientology taught him that his music should reach out to more people and he decided that Circle was too self-indulgent and so he created Return To Forever.

Corea, like Hancock (not a Scientologist) both made the conscious decision to make music that would attract a wider fan base. Both made some nice music initially with that, but more often than that resulted in bland crap that was a waste of their talents.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well, it was more than that. Anthony Braxton has spoken about Corea's Scientology evangelism. Can't access it right now, but it's in "Forces In Motion" by Graham Lock. Someone else can look up the specifics. Braxton was the reluctant holdout; Holland and Altschul went along with Corea, at least for a time.

Mike

[bertrand]

Isn't Dave Holland also a scientologist, albeit a much less outspoken one? I believe I read that once. Stanley Clarke as well, if I remember correctly.

Bertrand.

[7/4]

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/nbc/as...rview_23008.asp

[7/4]

Tom Cruse kills Oprah

[1ngram]

Isn't Dave Holland also a scientologist, albeit a much less outspoken one?  I believe I read that once.  Stanley Clarke as well, if I remember correctly.

Bertrand.

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Really? Maybe that explains why the latter hasn't made a good record in about 20 years. I still play School Days. Holland I've never taken to anyway so no great loss there.

But how about a list - is there a roll call of scientologists (ie very stupid people) in jazz? Who else is daft enough to have been taken in by this nonsense?

[ejp626]

While most people don't think this will hurt his career (this new outspokeness about Scientology, etc.) I think the jury is still out. I expect War of Worlds won't be affected, but some of his smaller, more romantic movies will take a big hit. My wife says in no uncertain terms she will never watch another Tom Cruise movie, including WoWs (which I was planning on seeing) because of his ignorant comments about pharmaceuticals and somewhat indirect cruelty towards post-partum depression sufferers.

[7/4]

somewhat indirect cruelty towards post-partum depression sufferers.

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That wouldn't go down well with da women...

[7/4]

Welcome to the First Church of Appliantology, the white-zone is for loading and unloading only...

Bill Connors:

Bill continues, thoughtfully, "Chick had a lot ideas that were part of his involvement with Scientology. He got more demanding, and I wasn't allowed to control my own solos. I had no power in the music at all. Then, we'd receive written forms about what clothes we could wear, and graphic charts where we had to rate ourselves every night -- not by our standards, but his. Finally, we had to connect dots on a chart every night. I took all of it seriously because I had a lot of respect for Chick, but eventually I just felt screwed around. In the end, my only power was to quit." After leaving Corea, Connors explored the New York jazz and session scene, performing with people such as guitarist John Abercrombie and keyboardist Jan Hammer. "It was great,"he states, "because it wasn't this contrived thing in order to communicate to the audience. We were *playing* again and *learning* again, and it felt real good."

[rostasi]

Black Moses is one.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/faq-you/celeb.txt

Konitz, Clarke, DiMeola, Brubeck, as well as Corea are mentioned as having present or past involvement.

Mike