***Weather Report Corner***

[johnagrandy]

I guess it's a sign of these post Reagan/Marsalis times that such things are now viewed as suspect by so many, but I'll take a mediocre Weather Report jam over another faux-"exciting" hard bop regurgitation any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Better to try and fail at something of your own than to suceed at being somebody else.

But that's the whole problem with going back and listening to WR, they ultimately failed.

I went to ton of live shows ... the ones at the Greek Theatre were especially good (I remember Santana sitting in). WR was my 2nd favorite fusion band after BB.

I think they stayed together way too long, and sailed the ship on and on until eventually they were floating around in isolated murky waters with no winds from anywhere ... for reasons I don't understand at all.

I mean, in the final years of WR you have one of the three greatest living saxophonists (if you think Joe Wayne Sonny like I do) sounding like he got thoroughly bored with it a long time ago. It's like Wayne was playing at 50% or something.

Edited March 23, 2006 by johnagrandy

[Tony Pusey]

Going to Vienna over the weekend, I see that Zawinal is playing at his own club, Birdland. Bit pricy tho, maybe I can tempt the wife to see him?

[JSngry]

I guess it's a sign of these post Reagan/Marsalis times that such things are now viewed as suspect by so many, but I'll take a mediocre Weather Report jam over another faux-"exciting" hard bop regurgitation any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Better to try and fail at something of your own than to suceed at being somebody else.

But that's the whole problem with going back and listening to WR, they ultimately failed.

I went to ton of live shows ... the ones at the Greek Theatre were especially good (I remember Santana sitting in). WR was my 2nd favorite fusion band after BB.

I think they stayed together way too long, and sailed the ship on and on until eventually they were floating around in isolated murky waters with no winds from anywhere ... for reasons I don't understand at all.

I mean, in the final years of WR you have one of the three greatest living saxophonists (if you think Joe Wayne Sonny like I do) sounding like he got thoroughly bored with it a long time ago. It's like Wayne was playing at 50% or something.

That would be one way to look at it...

[JSngry]

John, I won't question the specifics of what you say, just the conclusion you draw from them.

I mean, yeah, even though the band live was a gas up until the very end, they probably did stay around too long, and yeah, the last few albums were a "mixed bag" (although I still think that Domino Theory is a damn good record), and yeah, Wayne's playing on those sides is "disengaged" more often than not (but there are exceptions, and live was another story altogether). So if that means that they "ultimately failed", so be it. I just find it hard to look at a band that made so many meaningful innovations and created so much great music as having "ultimately failed". Woodrow Wilson? Yeah. Weather Report, nah. I can't look at it like that. Too much of a lasting and meaningful (and still relevant, especially now that The Big Chill is finally starting to thaw and cats are getting over their fear of electronics and non-bebop derived rhythms) legacy to render that as the "final verdict", I think.

[johnagrandy]

By "ultimately failed" I just meant that in the final years they didn't seem to be able to accomplish whatever they thought they could further accomplish by continuing on.

It's a phenomenon very common in rock (but in rock can probably be closely correlated with need/lust for more money).

Seems much less common to see this in jazz.

[Mr. Gone]

By the time Sportin' Life hit the streets in the spring of 1985, Joe Zawinul and Wayne Shorter had decided it was time for a break. When Zawinul and Shorter spoke to Woodard in March, he started off by asking them, "I should begin by asking about the status of Weather Report as a musical entity. Let's dispel any unfounded rumors. There's been talk of solo projects in the works."

Shorter: Yeah, that's what we're doing--solo projects, and a lot of things, whatever we feel like we can do. If we continue to tour and make records with Weather Report after fourteen years, still there's a wealth of things--musically and otherwise--that we might just let go by the wayside. I'll tell you--I'm fifty-one.

Zawinul: That's all, Wayne?

Shorter: I'm going to be fifty-two coming up. My whole music room is full of music papers and a couple of comic books I drew. And Josef's got drawers of music, papers and cassettes.

Zawinul: In all, I've got 2,000 pieces of music which I've done nothing with. Wayne has written music I remember from two years ago [turns to him] when you went to Brazil, you had ninety pages of orchestrated music. If we keep on going like we've been doing, in other words, making records--as well as they might be--and touring all the time, we will be sixty-two and by that time I'm going to have 5,000 pieces of music and Wayne might have 400 pages written, and it is dead.

Let's say Weather Report is a hobby we can no longer afford to continuously just do. There are other things at this stage of our lives and we have to branch out. I think we made a great record, but I think we finally can afford to do something we want to do. Wayne hasn't done a solo album in eleven years. I haven't done one in sixteen years. He's in the studio right now. I'm also in the studio ready for a solo project.

But as for the status of the band--it's still Weather Report, with Omar Hakim, Victor Bailey, Mino Cinélu, Wayne and myself, still existent. We're still going to make records with this band; however, momentarily, we will not travel with the band. I'll go out in the summer to Europe for four week by myself--just me and my synthesizers. That's something I've wanted to do for many years, and if I don't do it now, I ain't gonna do it. And now the technologies are such that I can go out as a full orchestra myself.

It's good; we need that rest from each other as a band and for the people also. The band has been better than ever in the last couple of years, as a working unit it's been an inspiration--everybody's listening to each other. However, that's when you do something else. When you become a champion, that's when you should more or less hang up the gloves for a minute and do something else. [Mus85]

Zawinul and Shorter also spoke of a joint Columbia Masterworks orchestral album that never materialized. But Zawinul insisted that Weather Report was still a going concern. "There is nothing changed except that we're not going to tour with this record immediately. Next year we'll come out with a Weather Report album, but the only thing we're not doing is going right out with our bags, so that the moment the record hits the streets, we're in Cleveland. [laughs]." [Mus85]

It was clear at this point that Zawinul and Shorter thought that Sportin' Life completed their Columbia recording contract. Zawinul told Woodard, "This new album is incredible. It's raw but it's well thought out. It all has that lumberjack quality, but it has feeling and it is powerful and it has all kinds of beautiful things in it. Joe Ruffalo, our old manager, said, 'The last album you do for Columbia'--it doesn't mean we won't be on Columbia, this is just the last album on this contract term--'really do something nice, crazy but nice so you can go on and make your moves.'' [Mus85] Sportin' Life would have been a fitting Weather Report swan song, but as things turned out, Columbia would require one more album to finish the contract, the hastily constructed This Is This.

http://www.binkie.net/wrdisc/Sportin%20Life.html

Edited March 23, 2006 by Mr. Gone

[johnagrandy]

I hadn't read that before.

In an interview where Zawinul is probably speaking extemporaneously it's problematic to take literally stuff like "Let's say Weather Report is a hobby we can no longer afford to continuously just do" and "I think we finally can afford to do something we want to do".

Does this indicate it's only the Columbia contract that's keeping the the band going?

But he also says the band's better than ever and the new record is killin' ...

Could that possibly be spin? Although that seems unlikely, it does makes one wonder. Sportin' Life was just about to be released.

Do I just have an unusual sense of humour , or did anyone else start cracking up when they read "I'm going to have 5,000 pieces of music and Wayne might have 400 pages written" ... ?

Too funny, man ! Poor Wayne. Just can't keep up the pace.

[JSngry]

Do I just have an unusual sense of humour , or did anyone else start cracking up when they read "I'm going to have 5,000 pieces of music and Wayne might have 400 pages written" ... ? .

I did.

[Jazzdude]

A few years ago I saw the GDR (German) Big Band in peformance doing the music of WR. Guests were Alex Acuna and Peter Erskine. Joe Zawinul was in the audience. It was a tribute concert to WR. He came on stage and said he loved the performance. This Big Band performed recently in Europe. I was blown away be the excellent musicianship when I saw them that time a few years ago. I would love for them to put out an album of WR music. The arrangements were tight and the soloing was outstanding. Bob Mintzer was there conducting and he did the arrangements, too.

[Jazzdude]

My vote (in order) is:

1. "Black Market" (P.S. I never tire of hearing "Cannonball")

2. "Heavy Weather"

3. "Mysterious Traveller"

Edited March 24, 2006 by Jazzdude

[johnagrandy]

http://www.binkie.net/wrdisc/This%20Is%20This.html

Now that's a great website.

I never heard a single note from "This Is This", but, more indications that Wayne was bored sick with the whole thing:

"Weather Report's fifteenth -- and final -- album is a feeble tribute to a group that reigned for more than a decade as the ultimate jazz-rock fusion band. Devoid of spirit or purpose, This Is This is such a halfhearted effort that one has to wonder if it was released merely to fulfill contractual obligations. (Evidence to support such a contention is provided by the horrendous black-and-white illustrations of past group members featured on this record's inner sleeve.)... Whatever the reasons, Weather Report's swan song is a sad one indeed, despite the generally solid supporting contributions by bassist Victor Bailey, drummer Peter Erskine and percussionist Mino Cinelu. Unfortunately, their efforts can't compensate for Shorter's virtual absence or the uninspired quality of the eight compositions presented, and not one song here comes close to the sterling quality of Weather Report's previous record, Sportin' Life."

--George Varga, San Diego Union-Tribune, July 13, 1986

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"Aside from special guest Carlos Santana's overheated guitar solos, the 15th Weather Report album is notable only for being the last. Barring a Joe Zawinul-Wayne Shorter reconciliation, it looks as though we'll have two state-of-the-art snoozers a year to look forward to instead of one."

--Francis Davis, Philadelphia Inquirer, August 1, 1986

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"After 15 years and 15 albums, it's understandable that Weather Report's founders, Joe Zawinul and Wayne Shorter, would want to take a break. And considering the way Zawinul dominates This Is This, the band's last album, it's easy to see why Shorter might want to concentrate his efforts elsewhere."

--J.D. Considine, Washington Post, September 5, 1986

[Guest akanalog]

procession was pretty decent though. and the live stuff i have heard w. bailey and hakim is tight.

i wonder if the main guys stuck with the jaco/erskine configuration too long and it sort of dulled their edge.

[JSngry]

If the Zawinul bio is to be believed, the backing, the serious backing, for the band began to really fall into place after they had reached their creative apex. So from a business standpoint, it made sense to keep going as long as possible. Wayne needed the money for his family, and Joe was really into building a business. Reality, that's what I think it could be called.

Those post-Jaco albums aren't at all bad (aside from This Is This, which is every bit the hastily-assembled "contractual obligation" album that it sounds like), and like I said earlier, Domino Theory is one that is too easily overlooked/dismissed. You can even make a killer single album of the best material from those albums. But as far as the real discoveries and adventures, that had already happened. Men with less to lose than Joe & Wayne would probably have packed up & moved on long before they did. But, really, who can blame two middle-aged jazz musicians for wanting to have something resembling a real piece of the pie to show for all their work? I can't.

[Eric]

Now that's a great website.

WOW - no doubt!!

[Guy Berger]

Those post-Jaco albums aren't at all bad

I like Procession better than all the post-Heavy Weather Jaco albums.

Guy

[Mr. Gone]

Those post-Jaco albums aren't at all bad

I like Procession better than all the post-Heavy Weather Jaco albums.

Guy

I like Procession better than all the post-Night Passage Jaco albums.

Next...

[Guy Berger]

Anybody else download this recording? I haven't gotten around to listening yet, but I love this period of WR.

Eje Thelin (tb) Wayne Shorter (ss, ts) Alan Skidmore (ts) John Surman (bars) Joe Zawinul (p, el-p) Miroslav Vitous (b, el-b) Alphonse Mouzon (d) Dom Um Romao (per)

"Funkhausstellung", Berlin, West Germany, September 3, 1971

Medley: Seventh Arrow / T.H. So What! SWSP 009/10

Medley: Surucucu / Lost / Early Minor -

Unknown Tune (composed by Jan Garbarek) -

Directions -

Medley: Morning Lake / Waterfall -

Umbrellas -

Orange Lady -

Dr. Honoris Causa -

The Moors -

[Guest akanalog]

i actually have a DVD with about 20 something mintues of this performance, guy.

black and white, but good picture and sound.

i think this is a reseed and i have had this longer audio version you mention for a while.

i remember being surprised when i found out who it was playing sax on the tunes....

its good music. i will have to relisten or rewatch.

i just downloaded a show from 74? i think with two drummers-daryl brown and maybe ishmael wilburn?

weather report had some random drummers i have never heard from again-wilburn, brown, herschel dwellingham...

[Guy Berger]

Anybody else download this recording? I haven't gotten around to listening yet, but I love this period of WR.

Eje Thelin (tb) Wayne Shorter (ss, ts) Alan Skidmore (ts) John Surman (bars) Joe Zawinul (p, el-p) Miroslav Vitous (b, el-b) Alphonse Mouzon (d) Dom Um Romao (per)

"Funkhausstellung", Berlin, West Germany, September 3, 1971

Medley: Seventh Arrow / T.H. So What! SWSP 009/10

Medley: Surucucu / Lost / Early Minor -

Unknown Tune (composed by Jan Garbarek) -

Directions -

Medley: Morning Lake / Waterfall -

Umbrellas -

Orange Lady -

Dr. Honoris Causa -

The Moors -

I was listening to this gig yesterday. Fan-fucking-tastic. I like some stuff by the post-'76 band but it doesn't even come close to this. However, I don't think the above setlist is correct.

Guy

Edited March 7, 2007 by Guy

[jazzbo]

I've come to the conclusion (based on hearing "official recordings" alone) that any edition of the band with Miroslav Vitous was the one to beat.

[CJ Shearn]

anybody hear Zawinul's new double CD with the WDR Big Band called "Brown Street", is it worth picking up?

[Shrdlu]

Funny, I just dug out a couple of their albums a few days ago.

My favorite WR albums are "Tale Spinnin'" and "Black Market'. Al Johnson does such a lot for those. The level of the compositions and performances are outstanding on those albums. Can't hear them enough!

I saw WR in Ottawa, Ontario, in either 1977 or 78. I was amazed to see that Joe could do everything live without overdubbing (which I had assumed he did at the recording sessions). Jaco's onstage antics really pissed me off, and I never liked him afterwards. He was a phenomenal bassist and also an idiot. The guy actually died after a street fight! Oughtta have been able to take better care of himself.

[CJ Shearn]

I gotta disagree with you there Shrdlu. Jaco wasn't an idiot, he had mental illness, which was diagnosed far later than it should have. He was a manic depressive. He wasn't into drugs and alcohol originally, when he joined WR he got really crazy and the decline happened afterwards. As someone who has dealt with depression I think calling someone an idiot who is depressed is a bit much

[Shrdlu]

I gotta disagree with you there Shrdlu. Jaco wasn't an idiot, he had mental illness, which was diagnosed far later than it should have. He was a manic depressive. He wasn't into drugs and alcohol originally, when he joined WR he got really crazy and the decline happened afterwards. As someone who has dealt with depression I think calling someone an idiot who is depressed is a bit much

Big apologies, CJ! Didn't know that, especially back then. I just thought he was greatly immature and acting the fool too much. Thanks for letting me know. Opinion updated!

I have a bipolar (aka manic depressive) daughter, so I know what that is like. She's doing very well right now, I'm glad to say. Having a very close boyfriend has really made a big difference to her! Other guys messing her around didn't help her a couple of years back.

[Guest donald petersen]

he is an idiot because he said he considered himself an "R and B bassists" and denigrated "rock" stuff...had he ever listened to himself? or any "R and B", for that matter?