***Weather Report Corner***

[CJ Shearn]

thanks Shrdlu, I wanted to make sure I didn't come off as abrasive, but Jaco had such a hard time, as as human I think its terrible what he went thru. Album wise, his self titled and "Birthday Concert" really do it for me Word of Mouth is incredibly ambitious but it doesn't hold as well, IMO.

[Big Al]

Bringing this back up for a number of reasons......

One to mark the passing of the band's co-founder Joe Zawinul; RIP Joe.

Two because I never commented on this thread before. Before today, all I had was the Legacy reissues of Black Market, Tale Spinnin and Mysterious Traveller. That started because of the AOTW from almost four years ago about Black Market. Those three discs are such a huge chunk of intricate and well-planned grooves. I could listen to the title track of Black Market forever and never get tired of it.

Always did like the slower, more contemplative pieces on MT and TS, especially thru headphones. These tracks are certainly not the kind to take out driving.

Which leads me to today's purchase of the first album and Body Electric on vinyl this afternoon. Just got done with side one of the debut and WHOA is it an eye-opener. I can definitely hear the Miles influence, but it is so far removed from the other three that now I understand why a lot of people felt like WR was declining by the time they got to Heavy Weather (which I don't like, either).

I haven't really seen these first two albums get much discussion in this thread. What are y'alls thoughts on 'em?

[Guy Berger]

I haven't really seen these first two albums get much discussion in this thread. What are y'alls thoughts on 'em?

Al,

In my opinion the band made its best music during 1971-73, both in the studio and live. Gotta go to work, will write more in detail tonight.

Guy

[Rosco]

Berlin '71 with John Surman & Alan Skidmore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ucVEWbwsWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92npTIlPGZ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FmOaBo-xgM

[Teasing the Korean]

Which leads me to today's purchase of the first album and Body Electric on vinyl this afternoon. Just got done with side one of the debut and WHOA is it an eye-opener. I can definitely hear the Miles influence, but it is so far removed from the other three that now I understand why a lot of people felt like WR was declining by the time they got to Heavy Weather (which I don't like, either).

Interesting. I don't like that album either. I like JZ and WS in other contexts but could never get into Weather Report. Maybe I need to check out the early albums.

[Big Al]

Which leads me to today's purchase of the first album and Body Electric on vinyl this afternoon. Just got done with side one of the debut and WHOA is it an eye-opener. I can definitely hear the Miles influence, but it is so far removed from the other three that now I understand why a lot of people felt like WR was declining by the time they got to Heavy Weather (which I don't like, either).

Interesting. I don't like that album either. I like JZ and WS in other contexts but could never get into Weather Report. Maybe I need to check out the early albums.

To clarify, the first album blew me away; completely mind-blowing. HW, by contrast, is an annoying bore to me.

[JSngry]

Which leads me to today's purchase of the first album and Body Electric on vinyl this afternoon. Just got done with side one of the debut and WHOA is it an eye-opener. I can definitely hear the Miles influence, but it is so far removed from the other three that now I understand why a lot of people felt like WR was declining by the time they got to Heavy Weather (which I don't like, either).

I haven't really seen these first two albums get much discussion in this thread. What are y'alls thoughts on 'em?

You really need LiveIn Tokyo to get the complete picture.

That one is a motherfucker, as were the other two albums, as was the band.

But...

I think that to talk of the change as "decline" as an "absolute quantity" instead of strictly a matter of personal preference is irresponsible - at best - & does not bear up under musical examination. Tokyo is an amazing album, and an amazing performance, but it definitely raises the question "what next?" Really, where do you go from there? Keep jamming and honing that approach? Well, yeah, but... everybody concerned had already come out of that type of thing to one extent or the other, and I'm guessing that sure, the band wanted/needed to make more money, but besides that, they wanted to get it by doing something bold musically. These guys weren't going to play bullshit just to get over. If they were going to "make a move", it was going to be by doing something meaningful.

With two principles such as Zawinul & Shorter, that meant composition, and that's where the band went next. Shifting from open ended thematic/motivic improvisations to more "litereal" pieces. Sure, I guess you could call that a "decline", or a "sellout", or something like that, but that's just a matter of taste, I believe. Because the compositions themself, the arrangement and the orchestrations (and when polyphonic synthesizers hit the scene, Zawinul was liberated in a major way), everything about this "new direction" WR was well-thought out, musical intellegent, highly creative, and not at all "compromised". There ain't no lowest common denominator shit to be found, dig?

So I look at like evolution, nothing more. Some will look at what was lost and feel betrayed, but I can't look at it like that, not when waht was "lost" was replaced by something of an altogether different but equally high caliber. I don't remember the exact wording, but Wayne at some point described as the diffence between "indoor" music and "outdoor" music, or something like that, and that, I think, is at the root of why some people felt betrayed ro whatever. "Jazz" even then had come to be a largely "indoor" music, in the sense that it was created & dissemenated "behind closed doors", if you know what I mean. Yoiu had to go to it, it didn't come to you. (Of course this is a broad generalization, but I think that overall, the point holds, and even mroeso today than then). The "new WR was definitely not going to be about all that - it was going to be loud, it had no aim to not tickle your ears and feet, and it would not be above taking a walk down the street to get your attention. But - and this is crucial - it always (at least until Jaco started wigging out, and even that was a soemtimes thing) did it with music that was smart, soulful, and not in the least bit pandering. The "indoor" type people looked aghast at the notion, but ya' know, it's good to go outside and play in the sun sometimes. Healthy, even!

And FWIW, I know it's "fashionable" to dislike Heavy Weather, just as it is to dislike The Beatles, and for much the same reasons. But I adamantly believe that that is an album of extraordinarily high quality in every regard, in many ways the 70s equivalent of Ellington's run of classic "minatures" from 1940-42. Sure, "Birdland" has gotten overplayed into Pukedom, and sure "Teen Town" has become the muso-bassist's equivalent of music-shop "Stairway To Heaven", but oh well. That's "baggage" and doesn't have anything to do with the originals, much less the album as a whole. I have the luxury of having lived with Heavy Weather literally since its first day of release (KNTU aired it in its entirety the night before it hit the stores), so all this "aftermath" means nothing to me. The music, however, does, and I tell you, afaic, it rates.

Seriously.

[Teasing the Korean]

With two principles such as Zawinul & Shorter, that meant composition, and that's where the band went next. Shifting from open ended thematic/motivic improvisations to more "litereal" pieces. Sure, I guess you could call that a "decline", or a "sellout", or something like that, but that's just a matter of taste, I believe. Because the compositions themself, the arrangement and the orchestrations (and when polyphonic synthesizers hit the scene, Zawinul was liberated in a major way), everything about this "new direction" WR was well-thought out, musical intellegent, highly creative, and not at all "compromised". There ain't no lowest common denominator shit to be found, dig?

I don't deny any of this. Composition, arrangement and orchestration do not equate with "decline" or "sellout" in my book. I simply don't like WR's later music for stylistic reasons.

[Big Al]

Which leads me to today's purchase of the first album and Body Electric on vinyl this afternoon. Just got done with side one of the debut and WHOA is it an eye-opener. I can definitely hear the Miles influence, but it is so far removed from the other three that now I understand why a lot of people felt like WR was declining by the time they got to Heavy Weather (which I don't like, either).

I haven't really seen these first two albums get much discussion in this thread. What are y'alls thoughts on 'em?

You really need LiveIn Tokyo to get the complete picture.

That one is a motherfucker, as were the other two albums, as was the band.

Don't I know it.

And don't get me wrong (I'm not the best at writing cohesively near midnight): I don't see the line from the first album to Heavy Weather as a decline in anything. As I've said before, the three albums that precede HW are my three favorite WR albums. The first two WR albusm are great, but I don't imagine I'm gonna listen to them as much as I listen to MT, TS, and BM. It's just that I can see what people are talking about; not necessarily saying I agree with them, but I can see where they're coming from.

But then, I have always and forevermore been a fan, first and foremost, of the GROOVE!

Edited September 17, 2007 by Big Al

[Hot Ptah]

I think that generalizations about Weather Report are not useful. They were not so neat and tidy. I think that later albums such as "Night Passage" and the studio side of "8:30" are excellent. There are some fine things on the albums after "8:30".

The first two albums and "Live in Tokyo" are to me, art music of a type. The albums after that are great music which is not so self-consciously arty. The level of quality was there at least through 1981, to my ears, then less consistently until they disbanded.

The albums from "Sweetnighter" through "8:30" were not simple, commercialized stuff. They were sometimes fun to listen to, but they were not watered down. There was watered down, commercialized electric jazz around then, but Weather Report was not making it.

[Big Al]

Listening to BODY ELECTRIC right now. I'm not sure I'll ever be ready for LIVE IN JAPAN; not sure if I could withstand the ferocious onslaught (and I mean that as a compliment)! This shit's unreal! I gotta listen to these two some more, probably thru headphones even though from where I sit (right between the speakers), it's still quite a trip!

[JSngry]

Al, you would probably enjoy reading the Zawinul bio. Although it seems to me to be pretty much one of those dreaded "cut & paste" jobs, the "author" cut from some really interesting sources & came up with some really "insightful" pastings, mostly of Zawinul's own words. To hear Joe himself discuss the evolution of Weather Report - and all the factors that formed that evolution, including money - is pretty eye-opening.

Bottom line for me though is this - I love this band, period. The last few albums were "spotty", sure, but... there was just so much music going on. Was it quite frequently loaded to the gills with "attitude" and "show"? Well, uh...yeah. Sure it was. But see, the thing is, when you took all that away, there was still some serious-ass music going on underneath it.

Case in point - the second album called Weather Report, Jaco's last with the band. For the longest, I kinda shyed away from that on (other than the version of "Roking In Rhythm") just becuase it was so damn "macho" from start to finish. Faster than fast, flashier than flashy. But then last year, I pulled it out again, and guess what - it's still faster than fast, flashier than flashy, but this time I was able to just accept that and listen to what was being played instead of how it was being played, and....WHOA. Unlike so much "fusion" of this era, the chops were not churning out easily broken down licks based on easily deciphered formula. These cats were playing ideas, solid, substantial ideas. Yeah, I know, at some point style and substance become the same thing, but if that's the case here, then all I can say is that when the ideas are this heavy, and the attitude is this strong at the same time, well, maybe it was my problem if the attitude got in the way of the substance. Maybe there was some insecurity in me that told me to use the attitude as an excuse to keep from dealing with the substance.

I have to say that I believe there was.

[JSngry]

... there was just so much music going on. Was it quite frequently loaded to the gills with "attitude" and "show"? Well, uh...yeah. Sure it was. But see, the thing is, when you took all that away, there was still some serious-ass music going on underneath it.

And who says I don't understand opera? :g :g

[Big Wheel]

Crazy...Joe really is playing a keyboard backwards on Black Market.

[mjzee]

What is that thing on the cover of their first album?

[six string]

About a year ago, I rediscovered Sweetnighter. I think I like it better now than I did in the 70's.

I've always loved Mysterious Traveler for the mood it sets. I can't listen to Birdland much anymore but the rest of that album is fantastic.

I think I'll go put on their first album now.

[JSngry]

What is that thing on the cover of their first album?

That's a good question, and I think I once read a looooooooong time ago that it's a photograph of some sculpture.

But don't make any bets on that, ok? I'm in no way sure.

[mjzee]

This question has bothered me for years. At first I thought it was some flying creatures, perhaps sci-fi related, but I took a long look at it today and the closest I came to was some crumpled-up aluminum foil.

The LP does say "Cover photo: Ed Freeman," so it is a photo of something.

[7/4]

I always thought it was some sort of weather balloon, but never really inspected it that closely.

.

[analogak]

jellyfish

[rockefeller center]

This question has bothered me for years.

Ask Ed Freeman.

http://www.edfreeman.com/ef8.html

[JSngry]

This question has bothered me for years.

Ask Ed Freeman.

http://www.edfreeman.com/ef8.html

I just did.

Cool site!

[JSngry]

This question has bothered me for years.

Ask Ed Freeman.

http://www.edfreeman.com/ef8.html

I just did.

Talk about good karma! Mr. Freeman was at his computer and answered back, like, immediately:

Hi Jim - thanks for the email and the kind words. The Weather Report cover was made by laying two pieces of polarized plastic on top of each other at 90 degree angles to each other and stuffing various kinds of clear plastic in between them - mostly Saran Wrap and the cellophane from cigarette packs. In effect it's a plastic sandwich. Produces really interesting results when you hold it up to a light source and view it as a slide. Try it yourself - easy, instant art!

Ed

So there you have it - it's a SAMMICH!

[rockefeller center]

Cool, thanks! Donaldsonography...

[mjzee]

Wow! Thanks! It was a very suggestive and moody cover, without suggesting anything realistic. I always translated it in my mind as maybe some ships braving an intergalactic storm. Now we know...great. It's even a little suggestive of the music on that first album.