Grant Green Club Mozambique UK release

[Dan Gould]

I really, honestly don't care if people don't like it. However, they fail to see the beauty of it, which means that they're not listening.

Anyone else see this as contradictory?

Don't care if you like it

but if you don't recognize beauty when you hear it you aren't listening.

who doesn't like "beauty"?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I really, honestly don't care if people don't like it. However, they fail to see the beauty of it, which means that they're not listening.

Anyone else see this as contradictory?

Don't care if you like it

but if you don't recognize beauty when you hear it you aren't listening.

who doesn't like "beauty"?

Dan, you're confusing taste with appreciation. Just because you can tell that something's good, it isn't necessary to like it. Equally, just because something's bad, it's not necessary to dislike it. Too many people let aesthetics get in the way of enjoying themselves, in my view.

Lots of people know spinach is good for them, but they don't like it. Lots of people know that sausages are bad for you, but they like them.

I like lots of people - some of them are beautiful people; some are crooks. Most are a bit good and a bit bad. I don't seek to change them, or say that I won't accept this or that side of their character. Very often, one likes - or indeed loves - people in spite of what they are.

So also with musicians.

MG

Edited July 26, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[ASNL77]

Well....... I bought it today and I have just finished listening to it. It will be on Ebay or back in the shop tomorrow afternoon...

I gave it a go but it doesn't do it for me. It doesn't change my opinon of GG. He was a fantastic guitar player.

[Clunky]

Well I bought it too, yesterday. Not my usual cup of tea but I got it along with some OJC s by Willis Jackson, Benny Carter,Sonny Rollins, and Jack McDuff in a minor spree at Fopp. I think it hangs together pretty well, groove music for sure but perfect for those elevator moments. I'd doubt I get more in this vein but not at all bad.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

u guys think youre so fucking holly jazz afficinanatos hatin' on the funk like you do, but in reality you are the lamest music fans in the universe. grant started his carreer in R&B and returned to it later in life, he had more roots in that music than in his more straight ahead albums. that aside you guys really stick my pricker. tell us the real reasons you dont like the funky stuff now. it obviously has nothing to do w/ the actual music, since it has already been determinded that the actual music is good--- so whats the real rason? do you have a circle of jazz friends you shant dissapoint? do you feel uncomfortable around the music of urban black people? did you have a bad expierence with funk as a child?

you know what it really is i think? its that you dont really understand grants more complex bebop stuff so you all worship it and turn your noses down the other stuff. well you are not more elite or smarter or better jazz lovers it is just the opposite you are closeminded obsessive jazz weirdos and you are no better than those who listen to Kenny G

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

u guys think youre so fucking holly jazz afficinanatos hatin' on the funk like you do, but in reality you are the lamest music fans in the universe. grant started his carreer in R&B and returned to it later in life, he had more roots in that music than in his more straight ahead albums. that aside you guys really stick my pricker. tell us the real reasons you dont like the funky stuff now. it obviously has nothing to do w/ the actual music, since it has already been determinded that the actual music is good--- so whats the real rason? do you have a circle of jazz friends you shant dissapoint? do you feel uncomfortable around the music of urban black people? did you have a bad expierence with funk as a child?

you know what it really is i think? its that you dont really understand grants more complex bebop stuff so you all worship it and turn your noses down the other stuff. well you are not more elite or smarter or better jazz lovers it is just the opposite you are closeminded obsessive jazz weirdos and you are no better than those who listen to Kenny G

I'll be interested to see if anyone responds to this Chewy.

MG

PS Why do you spell Kenny G with capital letters and not Grant Green?

Edited July 26, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[Sundog]

u guys think youre so fucking holly jazz afficinanatos hatin' on the funk like you do, but in reality you are the lamest music fans in the universe. grant started his carreer in R&B and returned to it later in life, he had more roots in that music than in his more straight ahead albums. that aside you guys really stick my pricker. tell us the real reasons you dont like the funky stuff now. it obviously has nothing to do w/ the actual music, since it has already been determinded that the actual music is good--- so whats the real rason? do you have a circle of jazz friends you shant dissapoint? do you feel uncomfortable around the music of urban black people? did you have a bad expierence with funk as a child?

you know what it really is i think? its that you dont really understand grants more complex bebop stuff so you all worship it and turn your noses down the other stuff. well you are not more elite or smarter or better jazz lovers it is just the opposite you are closeminded obsessive jazz weirdos and you are no better than those who listen to Kenny G

First of all, I like funk music, and yes, "all Grant is good" maybe not great, but certainly good. As you rightly point out, Grant really got his feet wet playing R&B, and had a real affinity for R&B music that always came out in his playing one way or another no matter what the musical context.

Secondly, what Grant was doing on those classic bebop cuts isn't all that complex. It's standard bebop fare done with a lot of personal creativity. Don't get me wrong, it's great, but it's not complex or even remotely difficult to understand.

Thirdly, and let me say this as clearly as possible, your posts consistently reveal you as one of the biggest jazz snobs I've ever run across. You need to learn how to value and respect other peoples opinions (and not just the ones you happen to agree with) OR just shut the fuck up. The "aw sucks.....chewy bean checking in to impart some jazz wisdom on you ignorant fucks routine....." is wearing extremely thin.

Grow up and tell me something good!

[monkboughtlunch]

Hey Chewy - gotta disagree with ya. Grant's early rhythm and blues offerings-such as his sideman date with Sam Lazar in 1960, and his blues oriented Blue Note organ dates etc of the early-mid 60s are superb. There is an emotional directness and honesty in his blues playing of this early period that I think we all agree on.

I don't think this emotional playing translates in his later overproduced funk material of the 70s.

This is not to say that one can't enjoy Grant's 70s period material. If you can dig post-Lion Liberty era Blue Note production, please dig it. But this period finds Green in an overproduced, stylistically limited setting, riding the crest and fad of James-Brown pop militism--and straying from the impassioned blues roots that were his forte.

I like James Brown and enjoy his 1967 Apollo Vol 2 Lp. But I don't find myself reaching for Grant Green when I want to hear James Brown. I think it is great that Grant tried a new approach. But given his short life, I think it's a tragedy that producers stuck him in that bag and he made slight album after slight album in the 70s--all basically following the same hackneyed blueprint. The Main Attraction on Kudo is the biggest POS I have ever heard. It is an injustice to his talent. It is disappointing that these later Lp's didn't reflect the diversity of his live repertoire of the mid-late 70s, including the blues and standards he was playing.

Edited July 26, 2006 by monkboughtlunch

[Chuck Nessa]

Silly fight. Some of you are hip and the rest are not. Please choose sides and report.

[CJ Shearn]

I agree with much of what you are saying monkboughtlunch re: Grant's studio records of the period but this Mozambique set is about butt shaking groove music, and there is some meat with the sax solos, which I think add more interest to the songs. Chewy/Aric........ I think your dismissal of those who don't like funky Grant is a little short sighted, and its incredibly hard to understand anything in your posts.

[DMP]

MBL brings up "The Yodel" (from Patton's "Got A Good Thing Goin'") as an example of superior "funk," and I agree. In person, Green and Patton played it at about half the speed of the recording and the vamp (before the solos) - whew!

[Soul Stream]

MBL brings up "The Yodel" (from Patton's "Got A Good Thing Goin'") as an example of superior "funk," and I agree. In person, Green and Patton played it at about half the speed of the recording and the vamp (before the solos) - whew!

Wow DMP, you're the first person I've heard from who actually heard Patton and Green together live. Could you tell us more about it if you remember?

[monkboughtlunch]

Hey DMP, very cool! Did you happen to take any pics when you saw Grant perform?! I think it would incredible see him perfoming live since most published photos show him in the studio. Blue Note would probably pay you to license some live performance shots to include in future releases.

Also - did Green continue to play live with Patton in the 70s? When did you see them perform together? Do you have any specific recollections of their shows together?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

hi everybody-- chewy-chew-chew back thisafternoon here- yes DMP i as well would find your story of interest in regards to seeing big john and grant in a live setting....do tell!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Silly fight. Some of you are hip and the rest are not. Please choose sides and report.

Nope; we're ALL hip. Some of us think some of the others aren't and some of the others...

Go for it DMP!

MG

[andybleaden]

u guys think youre so fucking holly jazz afficinanatos hatin' on the funk like you do, but in reality you are the lamest music fans in the universe. grant started his carreer in R&B and returned to it later in life, he had more roots in that music than in his more straight ahead albums. that aside you guys really stick my pricker. tell us the real reasons you dont like the funky stuff now. it obviously has nothing to do w/ the actual music, since it has already been determinded that the actual music is good--- so whats the real rason? do you have a circle of jazz friends you shant dissapoint? do you feel uncomfortable around the music of urban black people? did you have a bad expierence with funk as a child?

you know what it really is i think? its that you dont really understand grants more complex bebop stuff so you all worship it and turn your noses down the other stuff. well you are not more elite or smarter or better jazz lovers it is just the opposite you are closeminded obsessive jazz weirdos and you are no better than those who listen to Kenny G

Yawn

Can you tone down the language or learn some new words?

Edited July 27, 2006 by andybleaden

[andybleaden]

I would love to hear more FACTS about Grant Green ayway DMP ......anymore from when you saw em live would be great.

[DMP]

Unfortunately I'm not going to be too helpful or informative here - it must have been late '67 or early '68 when I saw Green and Patton, and this was a period when you could routinely see musicians of that calibre in what was pretty much a neighborhood setting. (It was no big deal to catch Lou Donaldson or Freddie Hubbard on a Tuesday night.) (Or buy Horace Silver a beer between sets.) It never occured to me to take a camera - these events were really nothing special at the time. Hard to believe, I know. So, unfortunately, a lot of the music I heard then sort-of runs together.

Anyway, what I do remember is that is was a week night, the place was half empty (or half full), it was a trio (can't remember the drummer, but don't think it was someone I was familiar with) and they were short on theatrics - just played the music straight on. And I can't rememeber what they played except for "The Yodel," which couldn't have been funkier - at that tempo it was a completely transformed tune. (I had the Patton album, so was familiar with the recorded version.) What they did play wasn't as self-consciously "soulful" as Green's later work, just naturally "bluesy." Don't think I talked to either of them.

My only other strong memory of that night is that Wes Montgomery's "A Day In The Life" (which was current) was playing on the jukebox during a break, and when Green and Patton went up to the stand before the set they tried to work out a version, just noodling around.

When Green re-emerged in the early '70's he made more frequent appearances here, always in a quartet with Claude Bartee, and I caught him may times in that period, and my memory is a little better. I've always thought the "Lighthouse" LP's were the best recorded representation of that group, despite the added personnel, and this new release hasn't changed my opinion.

[Aggie87]

so whats the real rason?

Here's one:

[Soul Stream]

Unfortunately I'm not going to be too helpful or informative here - it must have been late '67 or early '68 when I saw Green and Patton, and this was a period when you could routinely see musicians of that calibre in what was pretty much a neighborhood setting. (It was no big deal to catch Lou Donaldson or Freddie Hubbard on a Tuesday night.) (Or buy Horace Silver a beer between sets.) It never occured to me to take a camera - these events were really nothing special at the time. Hard to believe, I know. So, unfortunately, a lot of the music I heard then sort-of runs together.

Anyway, what I do remember is that is was a week night, the place was half empty (or half full), it was a trio (can't remember the drummer, but don't think it was someone I was familiar with) and they were short on theatrics - just played the music straight on. And I can't rememeber what they played except for "The Yodel," which couldn't have been funkier - at that tempo it was a completely transformed tune. (I had the Patton album, so was familiar with the recorded version.) What they did play wasn't as self-consciously "soulful" as Green's later work, just naturally "bluesy." Don't think I talked to either of them.

My only other strong memory of that night is that Wes Montgomery's "A Day In The Life" (which was current) was playing on the jukebox during a break, and when Green and Patton went up to the stand before the set they tried to work out a version, just noodling around.

When Green re-emerged in the early '70's he made more frequent appearances here, always in a quartet with Claude Bartee, and I caught him may times in that period, and my memory is a little better. I've always thought the "Lighthouse" LP's were the best recorded representation of that group, despite the added personnel, and this new release hasn't changed my opinion.

Thanks DMP! Great account! I especially enjoyed your memory of Patton and Green casually trying to work out "A Day In The Life" from the jukebox.

Edited July 27, 2006 by Soul Stream

[CJ Shearn]

this Mozambique session is growing on me more and more. The grooves, and this is what I like about the Christian McBride Tonic album too, is that they don't let up. Soulive has definitely taken the influence from this kind of boogaloo material, but..... GG and company do it way better. Also, Clarence Thomas and Houston Person, as well as Ronnie Foster (to an extent) keep the one chord grooving from getting too boring. I never thought I'd dig a version of "Walk on By" as I find the Dionne Warwick version very corny, but Grant makes it work. And another point of yours Soulstream, when you were in your bad mood you said there wasn't much stretching but I think on the last 5 tunes in particular, Grant and Houston dig in particularly well. If I had another chance to see Houston again soon, and hes not getting any younger, I'd have him sign it. I wonder if he knows Blue Note has just put it out. The second time I saw him at Binghamton University, he remembered me, by name, and that was so cool.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

this Mozambique session is growing on me more and more. The grooves, and this is what I like about the Christian McBride Tonic album too, is that they don't let up. Soulive has definitely taken the influence from this kind of boogaloo material, but..... GG and company do it way better. Also, Clarence Thomas and Houston Person, as well as Ronnie Foster (to an extent) keep the one chord grooving from getting too boring. I never thought I'd dig a version of "Walk on By" as I find the Dionne Warwick version very corny, but Grant makes it work. And another point of yours Soulstream, when you were in your bad mood you said there wasn't much stretching but I think on the last 5 tunes in particular, Grant and Houston dig in particularly well. If I had another chance to see Houston again soon, and hes not getting any younger, I'd have him sign it. I wonder if he knows Blue Note has just put it out. The second time I saw him at Binghamton University, he remembered me, by name, and that was so cool.

Try the version of "Walk on by" by Don Patterson, Sony Stitt, Grant Green and Billy James on the "Brothers 4" CD.

I imagine Houston is well aware of the issue of this. He told my friend around 1979/80 that the tapes had been lost. So he's interested in what happened to this session. And he is a very big record collector, I understand.

And he's a great guy.

MG

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

REMEMBER THE PART WHERE U WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW 'A DAY IN THE LIFE' CAME ON THE JUKEBOX AND GRANT AND BIG JOHN WERE NOODLING AROUND WITH IT BEFORE THEIR SET STARTED, THAT PART WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CJ Shearn]

CHEWY, ARE YOU ON CRACK? YOU KNOW YOU CAN TONE DOWN THE CAPS a little bit please!

[Aggie87]

REMEMBER THE PART WHERE U WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW 'A DAY IN THE LIFE' CAME ON THE JUKEBOX AND GRANT AND BIG JOHN WERE NOODLING AROUND WITH IT BEFORE THEIR SET STARTED, THAT PART WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"REMEMBER WHEN YOU WERE IN THE BEATLES? THAT WAS AWESOME!"